ScoutNut

Following the guidelines of the BSA is not a "bunch of bunk." The whole purpose is to protect the image/reputation of the BSA & to follow the standards of Scouting. From the BSA Unit Money-Earning Application : "Is it reasonably certain that people who need work or business will not lose it as a result of your units plan?" We are not talking about big chain grocery & clothing stores here. "Your unit should neither sell nor offer services that will damage someones livelihood." A BSA unit selling popcorn will not cause the local grocery store clerk to be fired. However, if a person or business usually pays a gardener or small lawn service (the kind who drive around in 1 rickety old pickup with their tools in the back) to do their landscape work and because they are now paying a BS Troop to do that same work the gardener or small lawn service just lost a job. Or 2 or 3 jobs or more if this unit is doing this all over town.That will definitely affect their livelihood! "If possible, check with the people who may be affected." After all, since they are losing their jobs, they are the ones who are really donating their money to the unit. No, it's not bunk.

Enigmanupe - Are you getting the idea why it is a much better idea to recruit boys at all levels, and have a full Pack, rather than have a Pack of JUST Tigers? It just isn't as much FUN! Something to keep in mind about earning rank achievements - 1/3 of all Tiger achievements (the ones marked Family) are to be done at home with the family. With Wolf & Bear 99% of the rank achievements should be done at home. Sometimes in Tigers a Tiger Team will do some family achievements in den meetings. In Wolf & Bear, most den leaders pick some achievements that they do during den meetings & let the families know that they are responsible for the rest. What this means is that when/if a boy earns his rank badge is pretty much up to the parents. We usually shoot for February to have all rank achievements finished and most of the boys make it. However, some boys, & their families, are very motivated and will finish by Dec or Jan. Others can't seem to manage with out being lead by the nose, nagged, & pretty much have it dragged out of them. (How much effort does it REALLY take to walk around your house with your son & check for fire hazards or go outside and look at/talk about the weather? Course the really hard part is dating & signing the darn book!) These boys could take right up until the last Pack meeting of the school year in May or June to finally earn their rank. Some might not earn it at all. So, don't think that 5 months to earn rank is a done deal. It is not. Be flexable, creative & make sure the boys are having fun. Recognize a boy for his achievements at the very next Pack meeting. This means that there should be boys receiving recognition for something at EACH Pack meeting. BTW - The adults, especially the leaders, should be having fun too!

An overview of my Tiger Program & our Pack year: Aug - Pack Committee solidifies Pack calendar for the year. Pack Activites include District Day Camp & Pack Picnic. New Scout registration day is held at end of Aug. Sept - Den meetings start. Tigers work on earning their Totem, making their Tiger Scrapbook for activity 1D, & deciding which Tiger Team is doing what. First Pack meeting is a welcome back with a big Bobcat ceremony for all of the new Scouts & Wolves. Tigers receive Totems & all awards earned from June-Sept are awarded. Popcorn sale starts. Oct - All dens, along with working towards rank, work on creating their spot in the Pack Haunted House. Pack meeting is a Halloween Party. Pack Haunted House is held on the Saturday closest to Halloween to raise food for the Food Pantry. All family members participate in the haunting. Nov - Pack meeting depends on theme. We may do a movie night this year & show either Down & Derby (supposed to be released to DVD this Fall) or Follow Me Boys. Dens try to work on outside things while weather is nice. Dec - Dens work on making ornaments for trees around the church along with regular stuff. Popcorn sale ends. Pack meeting is a holiday party with boys receiving their Pinewood Derby cars. Pack meeting ends with the Popcorn Cream Pie Toss by the top 10 sellers at the leaders of their choice. Jan - Dens work on rank stuff. Pack meeting is Pinewood Derby race. Feb - Scouts earning their religious medals are recognized at Scout Sunday mass. Pack meeting is the Blue & Gold banquet to celebrate 76 years of Cub Scouting. Boys who have finished their rank requirements are awarded rank. 5th grade Webelos recieve their AOL. Crossover ceremony is held for 5th grade Webelos going to Boy Scouts. March - Dens work on creating their Cardboard Boxcar for rely race at Pack meeting. April - Dens work on skits for Showtime Pack meeting. May - Pack meeting is graduation ceremony. Hopefully this year it will be combined with a camping trip & include a campfire ceremony. June - Pack Committee creates tenitive calendar for next year, securing meeting dates. June, July, Aug - 1 or 2 Pack activites each summer month.

Here are a few things that might help you: The first is the guide that you get from the Cub Fast Start site. It is a mini program helps for first den meetings for all levels. http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/faststart/art/06-801.pdf The second is a Tiger Den Meeting Planner form. It gives you directions for each part of a meeting and places to write out what you will be doing. http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/33221/34-13.pdf Tiger Dens are different from all other Cub Scout Dens. Each boy is required to have an Adult Partner (parent) with him at all times. These adults should be included in everything the boy does. That means that if the boys are playing a game, the adults are right in there with them playing too. Another difference with Tigers is that a Tiger Den, although it does have a Den Leader, is run using Shared Leadership. Each Tiger Team takes turns putting together & running the den meetings & field trips. Depending on the number of Tigers you have this could be anything from a full month (or more) of meetings to only 1 or 2. The main thing is that the Tiger Den Leader is really more of a coordinator & resource.

When starting a new unit, the only requirement for the 5 boys is that they are paid, registered members of BSA. They can all be in different levels (1st-5th grade). Per BSA, the optimal size of a den is 6-8 boys. It can be done with both smaller & larger numbers however. It just takes more work & creativity. Why is your organization chartering a BSA unit? Is there a need in your community for more units? Is there a need in your organization for a youth program? Are there boys connected with your organization who want to participate in Scouts & have not had the oppportunity? The answers to these questions will help you see if you should charter more than 1 type of unit. The programs for Tigers thru Webelos are quite different. You can have all of your dens meet on the same day & time, some Packs do, but they should have their own separate meetings & meeting areas. The only exception is if you only have 1 Wolf or 1 Bear then you could have a combined Wolf & Bear den, but it would be challenging to keep the programs separate & the boys of both levels interested.

Try this one: http://jenefer.speedyweb.com/jrbadgehelps.shtml The problem with GSUSA is that ALL of their material is copyrighted. They do not want it to be reprinted or copied anywhere. They want you to purchase the materials from them.

A well rounded Cub Scout program includes all levels of Cubs. A Pack meeting is so the boys of every level can interact, get to know one another, share & be recognized for their accomplishments. A Pack is just that, a large group of many smaller groups. A Tiger Den is a Den NOT a Pack. You asked in another post about how to keep the Tigers interested for a full 12 months. Part of that is having other activites to do at the Pack level & giving them the example of the older boys so that they know that there are more fun adventures to come as they get older. Remember, that if you limit boys you are also limiting volunteers. You need volunteers for the Pack to grow. Right now you should have, at the very least, a Tiger Den Leader (& 5 registered Tigers), Cubmaster, Committee Chair (who can also be your Charter Org Rep), & 2 other Committee members. That is 5 adults & 5 boys. If the same 5 parents are doing all of the work in the Pack they will get burned out VERY quickly! Recruit as many boys as you can get. If you limit yourselves, you will end up killing the Pack before it even has a chance to grow. BTW - Get Trained ASAP. The training for Den Leader, Cubmaster, Committee & Charter Org, will help show you how to run a BSA Cub Scout program.

First, take your Council training. Once you are all trained contact your Service Unit Manager & your council staff Marketing Specialist (SU Council Rep). These are the people responsible for recruiting girls. They might have a list of girls waiting for troops. However, most likely, they will flyer the middle schools in your area (or whatever the schools are allowing) once school starts back in session. They might also put together some kind of recruiting activity such as a "Bring a Friend" event. You might volunteer to help them with recruitment events, but for now, the ball is in their court to get the girls. BTW - Service Units usually start leader meetings in Aug or Sept & brand new Troops usually start meeting as of Oct 1, when the new GS year (& the registration) starts.

Can you say - Eagle Project!

We only do popcorn & have only been burned once in the 10 years I have been with the Pack. Actually that was for $200+ too. The family was rather dysfunctional & spacey. Neither the boy or his parents had been to meetings for a month. Then their popcorn check bounced & when we tried to call, we found their phone had been disconnected. Some more checking & we discovered the boy had been pulled out of school & they had up & moved without giving anyone their new info. We ended up eating the cost. We have never had any other problems with our families. Some might be REAL slow to pay, but all come thru in the end. This year we did sign out some popcorn to one family who wanted to try taking the product itself door to door & to work. They sold some & returned the rest to us. Usually we do take-orders & show/sell booth sales. It sounds like your CO is not very helpfull. Unless you want to sign a formal complaint with your local police, you probably will have to eat the cost. Maybe you could do a car wash as another fundraiser. It is not a sale type, can be fun, & has the potential to make up quite a bit more than just the $250. If one of your leaders can get their church to provide the water & the space, the after mass crowd can be very good source of cars!

I think that your problems started when you accepted a child's registration without any contact info for that child and without the approval of that child's parent or guardian. Who signed the permission slip allowing the boy to sell candy? I hope it was not the Aunt. Who signed the receipt for the candy (the one saying that they aknowledge they received the product and are responsible for payment)? If the Aunt signed the receipt she is the one who should pay the $250. Talk to your CO. The money is their's. Since she has not responded to your Treasurer or your CC, the COR or the head of your CO, should arrange to visit her and talk about what is going on. BTW - Your Pack was VERY lucky nothing ever happened to this boy while he was attending a Scouting function.

Troop Committee Challenge is a National training course. Contact your Council Training Chair, I am sure they already offer it.

When boys get together they can come up with the dumbest things that they seem to think are just brilliant, and manage to do them no matter how closely they are watched. Weather it was a JLT or NYLT course your son should be able to tell you more than that he walked in circles & burned ants. With JLT there was a good bit of "bookwork" involved & he should have brought home lots of handouts with lots of notes scribbled at the very least. JLT also had a kind of "ticket" that the boys were to work on. NYLT did away with the "ticket" item & went to more hands on stuff, but he should still have brought home more than 1 pamphlet. Ask him about his patrol's "Quest for the Meaning of Leadership".

I would check with your local Scout Shop & not rely on the website. It seems to be a work in progress, very slow progress. It does not have Cub Scout Program Helps either & I have seen those out for 2005-2006.

http://www.threefirescouncil.org/Camping/cp_boy_scout_summer_camp.htm I hope this helps!

My son just got back from a week at 3 Fires Council, Camp Freeland Leslie. The boys really like the camp. It has a First Class Trail, COPE Course & High Adventure. It is up by the Wisconsin Dells, not far from Devil's Lake SP. Part of the camp's High Adventure program is climbing & rappelling at Devil's Lake & canoeing in the Dells. The Troop took 1 day off to go to Devil's Lake & hike the cliffs. You might also consider Chicago Council's Owasippe. It might be a bit longer of a trip as it is northwest of Grand Rapids, outside of Whitehall, MI, but it is a historic camp that will not be there for very long.

At our council Fall recruitment meeting this week, this subject was brought up. We were told that the ACLU has stated that it will NOT sue the BSA for having schools chartering units. What it will do is sue the SCHOOLS, the districts & the school boards. To prevent our partners from going thru this, the BSA is having their councils change the charters. Most are being picked up by the Parent Associations & other private groups connected with the schools. Private schools are unaffected.

Bob W - You stated: "The Girl Scout Silver Award Medal is approved for wear on the Venturing uniform for formal occassions." Could you please say where this is stated? Also, if the Girl Scout Silver Award is approved, what about the Gold or Bronze? I would assume at least the GS Gold Award would be.

nldscout - Actually with Studio 2B, the new GSUSA mindset for older girls, there is no official uniform any more & the girls can pretty much do what they want & wear what they want. Backpacker - It can get confusing with terminology overlapping. Venturing - Venture, 2 different Golds, 2 different Silvers, & BTW 2 different Bronzes! You would think someone would have put a bit more thought into naming these things!

Sorry Backpacker, but I believe both you & Bob are a bit confused. The original post was about a knot device for the GIRL SCOUT Gold Award, to be worn on the Venturing uniform. GSUSA & Venturing both have Silver (top Venturing) & Gold (top GSUSA) awards. However the knots are only for the Venturing awards not the GSUSA awards. I do not believe BSA has any provision for wearing either the GSUSA Silver or GSUSA Gold Award pin on the Venturing uniform.

Oh, trust me, I'm not hiding. "i didn't mean giving up on him totally." Really? "after 2 or 3 monthes of this so called teaching and mentoring, i think that it should become serious. this is the time when you really ask yourself and the troop if he has enough potential to keep around." OK, so it's only after you decide he has no potential, that you don't keep him around? "but this is after he has let down his patrol for 3 months. all that time he is being trained and mentored, and he still isnt changing, so one of his patrol-mates brought it to the SM's attention. then after another 2-3 monthes of really concentrating on him, it is time to really evalute him and decide whether or not there is any potential at all" OK, now we're up to 6 months. "if it were in my troop he would have many chances, after he grew up and matured more. then, when he shows he is ready, he can be re-enstated to his positioned, all-the-while, he will still be mentored by the adults." How would you be able to do this when, after 6 months, you have told him he has no potential as a Scout & you were not going to keep him around anymore? Learning how to work with, & even help a "bad" leader, is a great way to learn about leadership. Perhaps, after you have grown up & matured a bit more, & learned more about what it takes to be a leader, you will not be so quick to write someone off.

You District Executive would be the person to talk to, especially if you plan on getting any funding from your council. Here is the link to BSA's info on a Council/District Webelos-ree: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-238/index.html It is very good & covers a lot of things, many of which are helpful even for a smaller scale event. One thing to keep in mind, even if you only have the Webelos camp with your Troop, they are still Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. They should only be participating in activites geared for Webelos, not Boy Scouts. Make sure you are following all BSA guidelines for camping & activites for Webelos. This means, amoung ather things, that the Webelos parents should be there & be involved.

I usually try to stay away from argumentative threads, but I accidentally peeked at this one & have to put in my 2 cents. I have to agree with Bob W. & John D. Good leadership is not something that is simply genetic or appears instantly. It is learned. Some pick it up quickly (how fast you learn something IS genetic), others take longer, still others take a lot of time, effort & repetition to have something finally click. One thing you can not do is elect someone PL & expect him to become a great (or even mediocre) PL the moment his name is announced. Especially if this is the first time he has held that position. There HAS to be a learning curve involved, & if there is learning happening there should also be some teaching going on. A boy can NOT learn something (anything) simply thru osmosis & trial & error. There should also be some teaching & mentoring by the ADULT leaders. That is our JOB. Per the Vision Statement of the BSA, one of it's purposes is to: "Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership." Ed states that he is in favor of kicking a boy out of his leadership position, but not out of scouting. Hacimsaalk12 states that after 2 or 3 months you should "give up" on a Scout who is not preforming his job up to expectations. What exactly do you think will happen with this Scout who has been "given up" on & kicked out of his POR? Should he stay with a Troop who he KNOWS has "given up" on him? If they have "given up" on him, will he receive any more training or chances to learn? Will HE feel like he will get any more chances? Hacimsaalk12, how would you feel if this had happened to you 3 years ago? Do you think you would still be achieving the rank of Eagle at 15? How about 5 or 6 years ago? Would you have even joined a Troop? When you "give up" on a boy, chances are pretty good he will "give up" on the Scouting program too. When we "give up" on a boy (especially after only 2-3 months!) we "give up" on our responsibility as adult leaders in the BSA to "Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership." BTW - The original poster was planning how to have a PL removed from office even BEFORE this PL was elected. Talk about "giving up" on someone. Sorry - I am now jumping down from my soapbox & running quickly for cover!

It should be fine. There is a cave in WI that does this & I know that they have had Cub Packs. I believe you just kind of stake out your area so make sure you have one area for the boys & one for the girls. Check with your council for any council specific rules & to see if it is an approved campsite area.

Ranger is not the Venturing Eagle. I would have to say the Venturing Silver Award probably comes the closest. The Ranger Award is a stand alone award related to outdoor skills. Like the Ranger Award, there is also the Quartermaster Award for Sea Scouts, the Quest Award for sports, & the Trust Award for religious life. The Venturing advancement program encourages personal development. It gives the youth the opportunity to achieve something meaningful, and to be recognized for it. Each Venturing Crew is supposed to have its own specific emphasis (High Adventure, Religious, Sports, etc) based on the interests of it's members. For instance, a young person who is interested in Youth Outreach should not join a Crew whose emphasis is on sports.