ScoutNut

Welcome! I am in my 8th (I believe!) year of being a Tiger Den Leader & hale from a near west 'burb of Chicago! "although man is it a lot of work." Not that bad if you utilize the Tiger Program & use Shared Leadership! With 11 Tigers (22 folks + sibs - WOW) each Tiger Team should be able to put together & run at least 2, or more meetings. Don't forget about Tour Permits for your Go-See-It's.

Segments are small, curved patches with 1 small picture on them. We give them out for attending Pack meetings & Pack/Den Activities. Our guys wear them on the back of their red patch vest. They form rings around the circular council patch in the center of the back. Other councils have specific criteria for earning each segment. Some wear them on their shirt pockets. Here are some from Welsh Industries : http://www.welshind.com/seg1.htm

Is your old CC is still on your Troop's Charter? If he is, give him a call & have him sign the applications. If you have re-chartered, then you must have a new CC listed (you can not re-charter without one), ask them.

Hey Kittle, I hope you are feeling better! As long as it does not rain you should be fine. Cold & dry is a LOT easier to handle than cold & wet when you are feeling poorly! You mentioned that you have had second thoughts about taking Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills because you have been thinking about concentrating on Boy Scouts and stepping down from Webelos. I was wondering if you realized that Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills is aimed at Scoutmasters, Asst Scoutmasters, and Webelos Den Leaders who are preparing to cross over to a BS Troop. As a matter of fact, it is a part of the Boy Scout SM/ASM training, which is needed to be considered trained in a BS Troop. The outdoor training that is Webelos specific is Webelos Leader Outdoor Training (some councils call this OWL). This training covers Webelos outdoor activitiy pins and Webelos Den camping. So, if you are considering dropping Webelos and working at the BS Troop level, this training is perfect for you! Now you just have to take SM/ASM Leader Specific Training and you are all set to work with the Troop.

"how am I supposed to work with a den leader whos wife gets upset, and calls and e-mails me repeatedly, because I will only hand out awards and prizes at pack meetings." What awards does the Den Leader NOT want given out at Pack meetings? When & where does he want them awarded? Instant recognition is a big part of Cubs.

From what I understand, each CO has 1 vote at the District/Council level. Therefore, 1 CO, 1 COR, no matter how many units. The COR would be COR for all. But, as you can see, different Councils do things differently, & not always the way it SHOULD be done.

You can schedule a visit to your local police department for that Achievement too. I try to just do the fire dept because the police dept is part of a Bear Achievement, but I have had to do both on occasion. It came in handy one year, right after 9/11, when we could not get a tour of any type of radio or newspaper. I ended up using our tour of the 911 facility in the police dept as our Communication Achievement. It worked well because they described how 911 & reverse 911 works. They called some of the police & fire dept cars to show the boys how the computer could locate them & deliver important information to whoever needed it. They even had a real 911 call come in for an ambulance! I had 1 boy miss the fire dept tour a few weeks ago. Mom said they have reletives in the dept so she will set up a "private" tour. I also had 2 boys miss the food pyramid last week so I will send the info home for them to do with their families. I think I will also schedule a tour of our local grocery store!

There are usually multiple ways that an activity can be done. You can redo the activity on another date doing it a different way. Or, even though outings & den activities should be done with the den, you can have the family do it on their own if need be. Remember, the boys have until they graduate from 1st grade (& possibly a bit longer) to earn their rank badge. What activities have been missed?

Our District Camporee's theme this fall was Pioneering & splicing was a hot topic. The SM had tried to show the boys how to do it at a campout the month before, but according to my son he didn't do a very good job explaining it. Apparently at Camporee there was a Scouter at one of the stations who used a different approach that really clicked with my crazy boy. Since then no rope is safe with him! He has turned into a splicing fiend! It rather reminds me of someone knitting, it keeps his hands busy while his thoughts are elsewhere. When he returns from wandering the malls with his sister I will see if he can explain his technique.

Approximate costs per month : September - $120 Includes segments & loops for all summer activities, neckers, slides, books, vests & patches for new boys, Bobcat rank & Mother's pins, misc segments for Den activities, new Immediate Recognition Totems, belt loops. Oct & Nov - $50 to $70 Includes segments for previous Pack meetings/activities, Webelos Activity Pins, Webelos Colors, misc segments for Den activities, belt loops, patches & cords for new Den Chiefs. December - $200 Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities, a Pinewood Derby Car for each Scout & a treat (usually a filled candy cane) for all kids (scouts & sibs), rockets for boys meeting popcorn goal. We do a Pot Luck dinner with the Pack providing chicken. January - $50 Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities. February - $150 to $200 Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities, Rank badges, Mother's Pins, Boy Scout Handbooks, BS Slides, BS red Shoulder Loops, compass for 5th graders, fun awards for departing leaders & families. Mar & Apr - $50 Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities. May - $350 to $400 Includes segments for previous Pack meeting/activities, Webelos Pins, belt loops, misc segments for Den activities, new neckers, slides & books for each level, vittle kits for 4th graders, patches, scarf, slide & Leader Book for new Wolf Den Leaders, fun awards for most helpful parents. This is for 35-40 boys. We don't do big, fancy patches. Most of our recognition patches are the small curved segments. We only do belt loops/pins if the sheet from the book/internet is turned in showing the boy's name, den, what was done & parent or leader signature. We don't seem to do to many, I think the families & leaders tend to forget about them. This February we will also be awarding the Pack version of the 75th Anniv Award & the Quality Unit Award.

Yes, IH is Institution Head. Your CO IH is the one to talk to. As CC & Committee Members you are well within your job descriptions to talk to the IH. It does sound like the COR feels the Troop is his own little private domain. He should be given a wake up call. If what he wanted was a Troop for boys of his own faith then that should have been a criteria from the very start. There should never have been any recruiting done outside of that faith.

None of the boys in the Troop are a member of this particular religious organization? Why did your CO charter the Troop, many years ago, if not to serve its OWN youth? Why would all of these families choose to be a member of a religious group to which they do not ascribe or belong to? When an organization charters a BSA unit, they then "own" that unit. As long as they adhere to BSA policies & guidelines they are free to run THEIR program in the way that best serves THEIR youth & families. The Charter Org appoints a Charter Org Rep & is also charged with selecting committee members. It is the Committee's responsibilty to select the unit's Leaders. Your Troop's Committee Chair (CC) should talk to the head of your Charter Org (IH) about the actions of the COR. Even though your COR helped to start this Troop, he does not personally own it. Your CO's IH has the ability to appoint a new COR if necessary. Changing CO's can be messy, but is sometimes necessary. It doesn't sound like your CO is living up to it's part of the charter agreement. If push comes to shove, they might be willing to drop the charter & let the unit keep the equipment & whatever else. If the IH can't, or is unwilling to do anything about this COR, your CC might consider contacting your Unit Commissioner & District Executive to talk to them about their responsibilities as a CO. If that does not work, I would start looking for a new CO.

This type of unit would fall under the Learning For Life umbrella rather than BSA. Have your wife contact your council about starting a Fire Service Explorer Post. Here is some info: http://www.learning-for-life.org/exploring/fire/index.html

The aim is to have every boy race on every lane against every other boy. It doesn't work out perfectly, but the only ones who know that are the ones running the race. As long as they keep on racing, most boys could care less if they don't remember racing in lane 3 or against Bobby Webelos. The nice thing about the Sterns method that we use is if the evening is getting long, boys are starting to get antsy & beginning to lose interest, we can finish out the heat group, cut out the rest & go to the final 1-2-3 race! Double elimination is really the worst of the worst. We chucked it about 5 years ago and have had great times since!

We do NOT charge Pack Dues. Pack pays for : Registration Boys Life Handbooks (Tiger thru Boy Scout) Neckers(Tiger thru Webelos) Slides (usually handmade) Blue & Red Shoulder Tabs Red Patch Vest w/Council Patch Den Numbers Webelos Patrol Patches Year Pins Webelos Vittle Kit & Compass Webelos Colors All Awards (patches, pins, segments, belt loops, etc - both earned & fun) Pinewood Derby Car Rockets for Cubs making their Popcorn Goal Pack Campout Special Speakers or Programs for Pack Meetings Christmas Treat for Siblings Scouts Entry Fees/Tickets on Pack Outings Leader / Den Chief Training Den Chief Cords Our program is funded by our popcorn sale.

Do you charge new boys who join in September $75 and then another $75 when you recharter in January? If you do, I'm suprised any of them stay. If you don't, & you prorate the dues from Sept to Jan, why is it ok to prorate at the beginning of their Pack membership & not at the end? If this boy earns his AOL before 12/31, he deserves just as big & expensive a ceremony in December as the other boys will get in March or April. If he decides to crossover to a Boy Scout Troop after receiving his AOL, he deserves just as nice of a Crossover ceremony in December, as the other boys will get when they are ready to cross in March or April. After all, he has already paid his dues & he should get his money's worth while he is still registered. Making a boy wait 3 or 4 months to get the recognition he has earned & deserves is VERY MUCH against BSA policy. We won't EVEN go into the fact that your Pack wants to tell this boy that not only must he wait 3 to 4 months for his recognition, but in order to receive it 3 to 4 months late he must pay $75!!

The CM really has nothing to say or do about the hiring or firing of a Den Leader. All of your concerns should be addressed to your Charter Organization Rep.

kramr1 - I know you would like to make sure the boys in your Den get the best possible program. I also think that fighting for their right to have that program is a good thing. However, if your Pack leadership refuses to follow the BSA program & will not do anything about this leader, you need to fight for the one Scout who really depends on you - your son. Staying in a program that is as upside down & antagonistic as the one in your Bear Den can possibly sour him on Scouting completely. You said you have been a Den Leader for 2 months already. Have you filled out an adult application, been approved by your Pack Committee, & registered with your council? Have you taken any training (at least on-line Fast Start & Youth Protection)? What did the "bad" leader say/do when you came with the meeting planned & newsletters in hand? If you are already an approved, registered Den Leader, then I really do not know what the Committee Member's problem was. As has been suggested, contact your COR right away. The COR has the final say. I would tell him everything that has been going on, including the Committee Member's behaviour at your Den meeting. You must prepare yourself, however, to pull your son out of a toxic environment if personality problems in your Pack Committee get in the way.

One more comment - Do NOT run an elimination race. The boys who get eliminated are unhappy, have nothing to do for the rest of the race & usually end up leaving early. This is the DOS program that we use that keeps all of the boys racing right up until the end. http://www.wtrfrd.com/pack339/339stern.htm There are others out there too. Here is another one that some folks use : http://www.agentz.com/scouts/software.shtml Have Fun!

Hopefuly this was a PACK camping trip! Why not get them a "fun" patch for their patch vest as recognition? Do you use the curved segments? There are lots of those to pick from & they are very cheap. Maybe the boys could even get more than 1 each.

Kittle, I doubt that your son will be doing any extreme winter camping with the Troop as soon as he crosses over. At least I hope not! The boys should be more experienced & have had some training before they start tenting in extreme conditions. Your temps downstate there, average from the low teens to the high 40s. For those temps a 3 person Eureka w/vestibules (Outfitter ver are more rugged) should be great. Up here by Chicago, where the teens are considered a winter heat wave, our high school boys do a snow camp using the Troop's Coleman tents every year. They manage with them. They have just learned to adjust their clothing, bags & pads. You might consider waiting with his tent until you see what the other boys in the Troop are using & how well they work.

COR's are voting members of their District Committee. You might also have the opportunity to be a member of other committees, but that would depend on how involved in the District Committee you wanted to get.

Some more game links - https://people.creighton.edu/~bjs74318/bluejay/pack114/library/games.html http://www.macscouter.com/Games/index.html http://bonaly.org.uk/games/ Of course if you have a ball & a basket handy they can play B-Ball. Or Soccer, catch, practice hitting, etc. How about frisbee? Fitness games like who can do the most situps, pushups, jumping jacks, etc. Thumb wars!

BTW - Tiger, Wolf & Bear electives are all the same in this regard. The boys can work on them from the time they graduate from their prior level until they graduate to their next level, but they can not RECEIVE the actual elective recognition item (bead or arrow point) until they have earned their rank badge for their current level. Boys who do not ever reach rank will not only miss the rank badge, but also the bead or arrow point(s) they would have received.

Fleetfootedfox, I am so sorry your wife does not support you, or your son. What a shame. What kinds of community service is she involved in? Does she volunteer her time for anything? Does she have any hobbies? Do you support her in the things she enjoys? If you support her, then you need to sit her down for a talk & insist she show you & your son the same kind of respect. I must say, you have some very immature people in your area. My kids know I'm nuts, & tell me that often, but they also know they are the people they are today because of the fact that I'm a nut & supported them & was a presense in everything they did. Volunteering with their school, church, Scouts, & sports, I have discovered that it is usually the same group of folks, dedicated to their kids, who can be seen volunteering in every area. The next time anyone makes a thoughtless, immature comment, just tell them that you consider your son & yourself to be in great company & whip out the list of Scouts above!