ScoutNut

We can't tell you which Troop will be a better fit for your son. Only you & your son can do that. I would do at least 1 or 2 more Troop visit with each Troop. Make them unannounced visits. Just show up with your son & let them know that you are there to observe. You will get a better chance to see how a regular Troop meeting is run. It should also serve to help you get answers to the questions Lisabob posed. When the time comes to make the final decision, sit down & discuss all of the pros & cons of each Troop with your son. While you can make a recommendation, the decision should be your son's. He is the one who will be in the program for the next 7.5 years!

Sure, why not. Formal Pack events are a great time for the Cubs to see a BS in full blown uniform. My guy doesn't seem to fond of wearing it for ANY event. I think it is because he got a regular size & now, at 6'4", 200 lbs, it is a bit uncomfortable on him! Oh well, he will NOT be wearing it on his belt, as is the fashion for some of the older boys.

Lisabob says of her Pack - "Their B&G is typically in late Feb. but there are several who want to move it to late March or late April. There are some parents at the extremes (one demands the pack delay B&G until her boy earns all 20 webelos pins...argh!)." I see this concept all the time & it really drives me crazy! Where exactly does it say that B&G, AOL, & Crossover are all tied together with chains? These folks have been in Scouts for a while, why don't they even have a clue what the policies of the BSA are & what the purpose of the B&G is. The B&G celebration is NOT a celebration of the Webelos achievements. The Webelos (& Tigers, Wolves, & Bears) achievements are celebrated EVERY month, WHENEVER they have completed them. The Cub Scout B&G celebration is a BIRTHDAY PARTY!! It is celebrating the birthday of Scouting, February 8, 1910. That is why it is held in February (NOT March, April or May), along with Scout Sunday/Sabbath & Scout Anniversary Week. Would you tell your son that you were not celebrating his birthday in November, but instead had decided to combine all birthdays, anniversaries, & holidays (Easter, Christmas, etc) into one big, fancy, celebration in January instead? Tell these people that the boys achievements should be celebrated AS THEY OCCUR. If they happen to occur in February, then fine, but otherwise please remember what it is we are REALLY celebrating at our B&G's.

Kurt, although the Tigers do not have Arrow Points to work on after earning rank, they DO have the Tiger equivalent. After earning rank, Tigers can get recognized for every 10 Tiger electives they complete by receiving yellow disc beads called Tiger Tracks. The Tiger Tracks hang from their Tiger Totem with the rest of their beads. Tiger Tracks or Arrow Points, there is never a reason to rush boys thru the program at any level. It is set up so that boys can advance at their own rate.

You have taken the Cub Specific training for Den Leader positions. You need to take the Cubmaster/Ast Cubmaster Cub Specific session. Check your councils training calendar. They might still have some training dates for January. Otherwise, training usually starts again in March or April. Remember, you can attend any training in any district. You are not limited to just the trainings in your own district. To attend Wood Badge you have to be trained for your current registered position. This means that by Spring of 2007, if you are still the registered CM, you need to have taken CM specific training.

The boys behavior is not the problem. Creating a 1-2 HOUR Pack meeting or 2-5 DAYS of Day Camp program that interests & engages ALL boys from age 4 (the end of their pre-k year) to 11 is the problem. The 4th & 5th graders already complain when things are to "babyish". Although, if they are not a part of the Pack, & not allowed at Pack meetings or activities, that might not be a problem at the Pack level. However, then you have the problem of them not feeling connected to the Cub Scout Pack at all (what happened to the early Tigers). As for Den meetings, you are proposing 2 years of mandatory adult attendance? For many families they have a hard time with just 1 year and can't wait until their boy is a Wolf & they can just drop & run. IMO, K age boys are just to young to get much out of a 1X a month Play Date (ok, not babysitting). Even if they attend with a parent, the parent will end up doing most of the work for them. Their attention span is SIGNIFICANTLY less than that of a 1st grader. One year makes a LOT of difference at that age. I think that BSA should stick with the Learning For Life organization's, school based, Seeker program for kindergarten kids. BTW - I never did like the early Tiger program. I feel the current structured program is MUCH better. And, as a GSUSA Leader, I am not a real big fan of their Pre-K or Daisy program either.

Actually, after looking at the council website, it looks like the Winter Awareness Training is specificaly for the boys. The council also requires the training be taken in order to attend their Klondike Derby.

It looks like Evanston has quite a party planned for Dec 31! Is your Pack, or Den, planning on attending any of the events? Check out a Wildcat game for your sports achievement! For your communication achievement give WNUR a call to see about a tour. It is a student run station at Northwestern. Most of the museums, nature centers, botanical gardens & what have you in the area, have programs for youth groups or scouts in particular. Look thru their websites for info. River Trail Nature Center in Northbrook has a GREAT Maple Syrup Festival in Spring! BTW - if you think THIS is an "extreme deep freeze" you have some surprises in store for you! LOL!

DuPage Forest Preserve District is GREAT!! Much better than Cook County IMO. For a great outing in Dec check out Kline Creek Farm in Winfield. They have the farm decked out for the holiday's. This weekend they have holiday crafts, fires, & hot cider. Next weekend they have blacksmithing demos! Also, if you call them they can send you a list of questions that the boys have to answer as they hike around the farm. Then you can order patches from your council shop! This will also cover achievements #1G & #5G!

Welcome to another IL Scouter! We are "next door" to 3 Fires in DesPlaines Valley. 3 Fires has a good website, make sure to visit it & check out the council & district news. Attend Roundtable to get to know folks from your area & learn interesting thing to take back to your Pack & Den! Tigers are a fun group! I love it when they realize I WANT them to be loud! Keep in mind that you do NOT have to rush your Tiger Teams. Feb/Mar is simply an arbitrary deadline. They have until the end of the school year to earn their rank. There are some fun things to do around you. Maybe your Pack could do some caroling as part of Naperville's Christmas celebration! Have FUN!

A few questions - If this CO had "chartered this particular unit for many years" then I would assume that the unit was visible at the CO, and had been "for many years". Did the CO supply the unit any meeting space? During the "many years" they chartered this particular unit, did the CO do anything at all for the unit? Did the unit do anything for the CO? New IH or not, it is hard to NOT notice a bunch of boys running around in uniform! Unless, this CO was on paper only, & although they had this charter for many years, they never did anything other than sign a paper & pay a fee once a year. That would explain why the unit felt it necessary to seek out a new CO (although the way they went about it was not very good). One more question - WHERE WAS THE COR? The Charter Organization Representative is a MEMBER of the CO. He represents the CO with the unit & THE COUNCIL. For all purposes, the COR IS the CO as far as the unit is concerned. The COR, along with the unit's UC, should be involved with the recharter process. Why didn't your COR follow thru, or even inquire about it? Unless, the COR did not care what the unit did, or there was no real COR, just a name on a piece of paper & that was all. Highland05, you ask - " How can a CO protect itself?" The answer is to be involved with the units it charters. To follow the BSA policies in regards to the running of a BSA unit. To exercise it's right to be a voting member of it's local council. As Scoutldr noted, for this to have happened, a lot of people had to be asleep at the wheel. Including the CO.

While Learning For Life shares an address and a root organization with BSA, it is a separate organization from the Boy Scouts of America. It was developed in 1991, in response to the controversy over religion & sexual preference within BSA. Learning For Life is school based & Explorers is worksite based. Neither are Scouting programs.

I think that speculating on uniforms, rank, & other awards for a Lion program is very, very premature. This program sounds like it is in the VERY early discovery phase. What programing there is for it is not even consistent between the 1 or 2 councils that are trying it out. bmarkey mentions that his friend is using the Learning For Life, kindergarten Seekers program along with a homeschool curriculum. Learning For Life is NOT a BSA Scout program. It is a school based program, entirely separate from BSA. Maybe that is why his council is making their version homeschool based. Someone else I read, mentioned that their council was using just Tiger electives. Another was simply doing a monthly outing or craft. None of the websites of the participating councils mention this program at all. This program is in the VERY, VERY, preliminary stages and might never even get any further than this testing phase. I sincerely doubt that any version of this program will be written in stone into the Cub Scout Program come June 1, 2006.

"Put thosr K's with some 5th graders and see what happens." Oh Boy Molscouter! How right you are! Most Girl Scout Troops are SINGLE GRADE Troops. Those that are multiple grade are usually only 3 years, 4 at the most, and are still a single level (Brownie, Junior, Whatever). For a Service Unit (like a District) to put together an activity that will attract multiple levels is VERY hard. A 5th, or even 4th, grade Junior GS is not interested in the same things as a K Daisy & does not really want to socialize with them.

Scouting "Lite" Meet once a month only Do "fun" outings only Minimal uniforms Not a real part of the Pack Only allowed at final Pack meeting to graduate Simply a way to introduce families to Scouting Maybe it's me, but this sounds VERY familiar. BSA has already tried this type of program with the early Tigers. It did not work well then & it will not work well now with even younger boys. BSA found that rather than encouraging boys to become Scouts by giving the families a "taste" of what Scouting would be like once they become "real" Cub Scouts, it was causing families to decide they had better ways to spend their time. They just were not invested enough in the program & they felt the program was not invested in their boys. That is why BSA beefed up the Tiger program until the boys felt they really were a part of Cub Scouting & not just "red-headed step children". For those of you comparing GSUSA & BSA, GSUSA had much the same problem with the Daisy program. They ended up having to beef it up so it was a more integrated level, had more of a program to it & not as much of a babysitting, crafty, play date. BTW - Girls & boys ARE different. While they both have the attention span of a gnat at 5-6 years old, girls can be more easily induced to sit still for longer than 2 seconds & to actually work on a craft. Boys would much rather run in circles & jump on other boys. Actually this behavior extends into first grade too!

My question has to do with the boys being "forced" to join a Venture Patrol (that's patrol NOT Venturing Crew, correct?). Does the Troop currently have a Venture Patrol? If it does, maybe one of the Troops prerequisites for being a member is to have held a Troop leadership position? If it does not currently have a Venture Patrol, maybe this is the SM's weird way of starting one. I really can't see using a Venture Patrol as a "punishment" for a Scout. Usually Scouts are excited about forming one. A Venture Patrol is made up of Boy Scouts, 13 yrs old & older, who participate in more challenging, high adventure type outings. If you have to mess up on your job as SPL/PL to get in the Venture Patrol, then I for one would be messing up BIG TIME (& I bet the rest of the older scouts would be too)! Something else is going on here that is not being communicated clearly. Scout-parent, if things were not resolved at that meeting, I think you should attend the next Troop Committee meeting & find out just what is going on.

How about a couple of Camelbak systems? They would be good for both boys.

Is the church your CO? If so, talk to your COR and see if you can put up a bulletin board in the school cafeteria. It will be a great visual aid to get boys interested if you put in pictures of your latest activites. If the church also charters a Pack talk to the CM & COR about putting up either 1 large board or 2 smaller ones so the Cubs can display their stuff too! If neither the church or the church's school are your CO & the cafeteria is just where you meet, you might have a harder time convincing them to let you have a permanent display. If you must have a moveable display, 3-sided project boards would probably be the easiest & cheapest.

CNY, it's not the programs, it's the leaders. Both the BS & GS Troops should be youth run & they aren't. What amazes me is when the leaders start complaining that the youth are not participating in the "service projects". They just don't understand that if the project was one that the kids had come up with, or at least agreed to, they would be much more likely to participate. And, to do so enthusiastically!

From what I understand, talking to folks across the country on various Cub Scout lists, this is a trial program being run at a few councils. Usually the boys are in kindergarten, or 6 years old. 5 years old could put them in pre-school in some parts of the country! I am not a big believer in Cubs under 1st grade. The boys are WAY to immature & most can not even read at all yet. I think at that age it really does become just babysitting.

The monthly awards don't need to be "show stoppers". If you try to make every ceremony over the top you will quickly run out of ideas, resources, & start repeating yourself way to often. You just need to make the awards FUN. Use whatever your theme for the meeting is and run with that. This month we have our Holiday Pot Luck Pack Meeting. The awards (we don't have many in Dec) will be in baggies attached to ornaments on the Christmas Tree. A bunch of clear glass ornaments were donated by a Pack family member. I think we will paint the boys name, level & year on the ornament then attach his awards. When they come up with their den, & parents, each boy will find his own ornament on the tree. At the end of the presentation each den will do their den cheer (of course the G-R-R-E-A-T Tigers will be the LOUDEST!). The awards that should be "show stoppers" are the rank awards & graduation. If you have people complaining about the ceremonies, announce a new Pack position - Ceremonies Chair!

Your best bet would be to check the BSA Shooting Sports literature. Your DE should have a copy handy at the council offices. The literature should spell out how instructors become BSA certified & what instructors can be used. I know that for guns you can use an NRA certified instructor, but I am not certain of the specifics & do not have a copy of the literature handy.

Is their board overfull with current items, or a lot of old stuff they just have not gotten around to removing? If it is all current, then I would talk to the CO about putting up another board just for Cub Scouts. Hopefully they will have some wall room! If the CO offers to buy another board, let them. Otherwise, I would bring it up at the Pack Leader's meeting & see if the Pack has the funds to purchase an inexpensive cork board. If the current board has a lot of outdated things on it then maybe you could just divide off a section using some blue & yellow borders. That way there would be a clear, designated, Scout area. Does your CO charter a BS Troop too? Do they have any Girl Scout members? If there are other Scouting groups involved, then a whole board just for Scout Stuff might be a good idea. It would bring the entire Scouting spectrum to the attention of the CO's membership. It might also inspire more youth to sign up!

Committee meetings, with only "voting" committee members attending, are a thing of the past. Per National, what should be happening is that Packs hold monthly Pack Leader's Meetings. These meetings are attended by the COR, CC, Cubmaster, all committee members, den leaders & all assistant leaders. This group, TOGETHER, plans all Pack activities, including the monthly Pack meetings. mbscoutmom, don't beg or plead with your absent den leaders. Simply inform them that it is NOT optional. Let them know that there HAS to be at least 1 leader, or parent, from the den at each Leader's Meeting or their den will not be included in the planning.

If your CO offered to supply the board, take them up on it. After all, it's purpose is to keep the CO's membership up to date on the doings of THEIR Pack!