ScoutNut

All of the Packs that I am familiar with understand that when you sign up Tigers you need a Tiger den leader. It is not a big surprise, and they generally make sure to recruit what they need from the parents signing up their 1st graders. For my Pack - We utilize a "permanent" Tiger den leader, so we already have that covered. New Wolf/Bear/Webelos Scouts go into existing dens. If the numbers get to be to big/unmanageable, the Pack, and den, leaders will face that when it happens. If necessary they will start new dens using experienced parents from the den, or new, excited, parents as den leaders for the new dens.

>>"Remember Kimble, you are doing this for the boys not for council nor the church."

The new GSUSA mega-councils are a mess, so I was leary of this idea from the get-go. I can, sort of, see the concept of consolidating the top jobs thus saving on salaries, and getting a broader fundraising base for everyone. Even consolidating camps is not a truly horrible idea if the ones left have great programs, enough space to accommodate all of the mega-council's youth, and are located where they can be reached within a reasonable time (1-1.5 hrs). However, when I saw that they were planning on having "Field Service Councils" with just as many top paid positions things got much fuzzier. Basically, what MI did was use this as an excuse to merge some councils, and centralize the fundraising. How financially independent are the new FSC's? Does the "overlord" council pay all of their bills, and expenses? How is it decided how fundraising money is spread around the state? And, since it was one of their biggest selling points when this was first proposed, my biggest question in all of this has always been, how - exactly - will all of this help the numbers of youth members to increase?

There are a few things to consider - 1) You say you have 7 Cubs "on paper". How many do you really have? Do you have enough to recharter (5)? 2) Since they are selling the church you are currently meeting in, I am assuming that the three merged church congregations will be going elsewhere. Is the new church anywhere nearby? Would it be possible to move the Pack to the new location? 3) Is the church willing to let the Pack continue to meet at the church until it has been sold? Or are you being kicked out immediately? If you do not have enough boys, or adult support, to make working to save the Pack a realistic option, than I would not beat myself up over it. Do some research on the various other options in Packs in your area. Pick one for your family. Hold a parent meeting and let the families know what is going on. Give them all a list of area Pack contact numbers, and let them know where you will be going. Then it will be up to the families where they go. If you have the numbers to continue as a Pack, and the parents want to help, then I would work at reviving the Pack. If it is possible to move to the new, merged church, facilities, than that is what I would work on. If the new church would be to far away to make it a feasible location then you will need to find a new Charter Organization. Your DE (District Executive) can help with this. Approach other churches in your area. What churches, or other organizations, do your Pack members belong to? Ask them to approach their organization/church on behalf of the Pack. Once you have a new home, you might find you have a new potential base to recruit from. Step up your recruiting to get your Pack numbers up. Make sure your program is great. Given time your Pack will get strong again. For right now, if you can continue to meet in the old church that is great. However, with under seven Cubs it should not be to hard to find somewhere to use temporarily until you find a new permanent home. Check out meeting rooms at the local library, community center, and police/fire station. Depending on where you are, you might even be able to move outdoors. We had a local Boy Scout Troop go thru this same process. The church congregation was down to an aging handful so they were merged into a church in another town, and the building sold. The Troop had been chartered with that church for 50+ years. The Troop ended up a church that was two blocks from their original home. Nice folks, nice facilities, and the opportunity to show Boy Scouting to a whole new, younger, congregation. Last I heard, the church was considering chartering a Pack as well. As a big plus, they were able to keep their unit number so their Troop history was not lost in the move!

It is interesting to me how you seem to automatically assume that suburban = wealthy, and urban = poor. That is just not the case at all. Why not just frame your question in the parameters you are actually talking about? Poor vs wealthy. Inner-city vs everyone else. For urban vs suburban there are just to many variables to make a decent comparison. (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

Yep, getting stuff like this paid for is why our families work so hard at the popcorn sale.

Hand - You can offer any number of overnight opportunities to the girls in your Troop. The key is to "offer". The girls make the decision. Hand - As has been pointed out, GSUSA does NOT DO week long summer camp by Troop. It is an individual thing, not a Troop thing. The summer camps are usually based on some kind of theme (horses, water activities, acting, etc). Girls sign up individually for what interests them. Some Troops, if that is what the girls decide on, will do week long trips on their own, but those are usually not done every year. Hand - No one said to lower any "bar". No one stated to choose activities based only on what one girl in a Troop wants. However the adult leaders in a GSUSA Troop/Group also do not dictate to their girls what activities the girls MUST do. Decisions are made by ALL of the GIRLS. (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

We camp at State Park, or County, youth group camps, purchase non-brand food from the cheap volume grocery, and ask participating families to provide an item or two from a list. The $10 is mainly as a means to solidify the families reservation. The Pack picks up the brunt of the cost.

Here most districts do a Klondike, and a camporee for Boy Scouts, and an event or two for Cubs. There are a number of council events that are done in conjunction with a district, or outside organization. Some are for Cubs, some for Boy Scouts, some for Venturers, and some for everyone. We have a number of OA events. You do what you can afford with money, resources, and volunteers. You keep what the Scouts attend, and toss/redo what they do not. We have consolidated some events at a council level which enables us to have more resources available, and to have greater attendance. Also, districts coordinate on their event dates so that you don't have every district doing a different activity on the same day. This enables Scouts to attend activities that interest them in other districts, which helps boost the attendance numbers of that event.

If a Troop meets on their own, outside of the CO's facilities, then you are right, the CO would not necessarily know when it's Troop's Committee meets. However, if the Troop is utilizing meeting space in their CO (as many do), then it would have to be scheduled with/through them. It certainly would not hurt to ask.

What do you expect your council to do? They, like you, can not force parents to volunteer. They, like you, can not force people to register with your Pack. Your Charter Organization (CO) owns your Pack. Are you getting any support from them? Do you know who your Charter Organization Representative (COR) is? Are any of your Pack families members of the CO? Can the CO provide any volunteers? One thing your council might do is to get your District Executive (DE), and your Unit/District Commissioner, together with the head of your CO, to see if they can talk the CO into helping it's own Pack survive. However, if your CO is hands off, or leaning toward not chartering a Pack any more, it might have the consequence of giving the CO a reason to pull the plug, and drop their charter. Which is something no DE is going to want to happen. You might talk to your District Commissioner, or Unit Commissioner if you have one, to see if they have any ideas on how to motivate your Pack's families, or ideas on how to reach out to new families. As volunteers who have worked in/with Packs they might have some been there/done that experience that can help. Perhaps they might be able to put you together with a Boy Scout Troop that has Scouts interested in being Den Chiefs. Again, realize that they can not force Boy Scouts to be Den Chiefs for your Pack. Edited to add that there is no BSA requirement that volunteers be male. Your Cubs have mothers, grandmothers, aunts, etc. If the dads will not help, recruit other family member who will.(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

This one family is the least of your problems. With a Pack of 9/10, that has, for the last 1.5 yrs+, had no parent help, and you as the CM/CC, and only den leader, this Pack is doomed to self-destruct. Before you start trying to require new families to stay at meetings, you need to sit the current families down and give them a hard ultimatum. Help out or fold the Pack.

>>"Those are our future venturers, so what we think does matter."

Base, you asked, I answered. Different Packs, different areas, different circumstances, different ways of doing things. Most of our Scouts attend our local Catholic elementary school. They are middle class working families who spend a good chunk of their income on school costs. We have single parents, and parents (unfortunately many) who are struggling financially. They volunteer with school, church, sports, and Scouts (GSUSA & BSA). They fund raise for school, sports, church, and Scouts. They are not lazy. Nothing is free in our Pack either. Our boys, and their families, work their butts off for two months selling popcorn. We have 3-5 booth sales every weekend. We charge for events also. We just keep the cost as low as possible. Our Pack campouts are $10 per family. How we run things works for our Pack.

If you know when/where your local Troops meet then stopping in before, or after, a meeting for a quick chat with the SM is not a bad idea. You can also stop in at a Committee meeting. Contact the CO to find out where/when.(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

It is not a quiz, there are no set "topics" required to be covered. It's just a talk. Ask how they are doing. Ask about family, school, sports. Are they on a team. What's their favorite sport. Will they be going to a new Middle School. Ask how they feel about that. Talk about their Cub years. What they like best/least. What do they think of their time as a Webelos (like/hate/change/etc). What do they think of Boy Scouting. What they would like to do as a Boy Scout. Are they interested/excited/blase. Which Troop they are most interested in, and why. If you were a Scout, share a story from your experience. Explain to them that a SM conference is just a talk too. A chance for the Webelos Scout and, his potential SM, to get to know a bit about each other. You know, just TALK to them.

What we think does not matter. This is not Cub Scouts, or Boy Scouts. What do the GIRLS in the Group want? Has the Group done any camping at all up to now? Why does your daughter only want to go camping once a year? Have you taken any of the required GSUSA camping training, or first aid training?

>>"I'm always the caller."

>>"I'm not a babysitter and they left our group years ago cause I told the parent such."

We do a flag ceremony to start the den meeting every week. Every week we rotate the Cubs thru the positions, and have a different Cub be caller. That way, in a few months, all of the boys have "led" a flag ceremony.

>>"For those who simply use popcorn or fundraising to pay for them some food for thought.... What do you do with those who don't/won't/refuse to participate??? Is it fair to the boys that do???"

>>">>Membership standards they knew about when they joined are not one of them. .... I'll disagree. Down in NC back in 2002, we had a family leave after a Blue and Gold Dinner FOS presentation when it was mentioned that the Triangle United Way was no longer supporting the council except through directed donations."

No. Folks drop out for a lot of reasons. Membership standards they knew about when they joined are not one of them.

Since GSUSA has no Charter Organizations there are no recharter fees. Annual registration for GSUSA is $12.

Briveigh, how does your Pack manage with the parents doing the purchasing? How do the Cubs receive their awards? Do the parents give them to the den leader who then gives them out at a Pack meeting? Or, do the parents simply give them to their sons when they get home from their local Scout Shop? Does your Pack charge Pack dues, or do any kind of fundraising? How many boys are we talking about here? In our Pack, den leaders keep track of what each of their Cubs have completed over the month since the previous Pack meeting. At our Pack Committee/Leaders meeting (about two weeks before the Pack meeting) leaders are reminded to get their awards lists into the Pack Advancement Chair by a specific date (usually one week before Pack meeting). The Pack pays for, and the Advancement Chair purchases, all of the awards for the Cubs. The Advancement Chair then sorts the awards by Scout, and den, packages them according to the theme of the meeting, and brings them to the Pack meeting. The awards are then presented by the den leaders to each Scout in their den in a ceremony of some sort.