ScoutNut

No, neither a Cub Scout Den, nor an individual Cub Scout can earn a Hornaday Award. However, a Cub Scout PACK can earn a William T. Hornaday unit certificate. The requirements are : "A Hornaday unit certificate, No. 21-110, is awarded to a pack, troop, team, or crew of five or more Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, or Venturers for a unique, substantial conservation project. At least 60 percent of the registered unit members must participate. These units may be nominated, or they may apply to their BSA local council for recognition."

Welcome! And let me add another encouraging voice to the group! Your nephew is already excited by the idea of Scouts - Sign him up! We had a number of 4th & 5th graders sign up last year & this year. One boy who signed up in 4th grade last year is the son of a good friend of mine. Our Charter Org is the men's club of our local Catholic Church. I would say that at least 95% of the boys attend the Catholic school there and 99% of the boys are Catholic. My friend's family is Lutheran. Their son attends a Lutheran school in another town. He did not know ANY of the boys in his den, or the rest of the Pack either. He also has ADHD, some other learning/behavior issues, is a bit shy & is a VERY smart kid. To top it off his dad was not a big fan of Boy Scouting! His dad went with him to den meetings & they BOTH loved it! He earned his Lutheran religious award in 4th grade & had a blast making new friends, learning stuff & having fun. He crossed to our BS Troop this year & is very excited! We had another family who joined last year with 1 3rd & 1 4th grader. The boys love scouting & did great! Their little brother was in tears at our last Pack meeting this year because we had a brand new Tiger receive his scarf & it was NOT him! After watching the fun his big brothers were having, he had been after his mom for weeks to finally sign him up & she thought she had to wait until August! Your nephew will do GREAT! Again, Welcome to Scouting & these forums!

If this service project is ON TOP OF the requirement to take part in 6 hours of work on service project(s), then I am quite sure you know what the answer is. That would be adding to the requirements & would be overturned by your council if any family cared enough to complain to them. If the service requirement has been changed to LEADING a service project at least 6 hours long, that is still changing the requirement. Even though it specifically states that the SM has to approve the hours, it also states that the boy must WORK 6 hours (not just supervise) & that it can be an individual or group project & that working on other Scouts Eagle projects would qualify.

From - http://www.joincubscouting.org/ Your council is Denver Area Council - http://www.denverareacouncil.com/ The Packs listed in Lakewood are - Pack 243 Alameda West Kiwanis Pack 814 Westgate Elementary PTA Pack 180 Parents of Pack 180 Pack 448 Green Mountain Presbyterian Church Pack 478 Kendrick Lakes Elementary PTA Pack 836 Project Steps - Eiber Pack 546 Glenn Randall Phillips United Methodist Pack 748 Christ On The Mountain Catholic Church Pack 42 LDS Church Dartmouth Ward Pack 380 LDS Church Green Mountain 2nd Ward Pack 18 LDS Church Alameda Ward Pack 771 Lakewood Elks Lodge #1777 Pack 437 Dennison Elementary PTA Pack 736 Shepherd of the Hills Presbyterian Church Pack 166 Our Lady Of Fatima Catholic Church Pack 76 Bethlehem Lutheran Church Pack 237 South Lakewood Elementary PTA Pack 135 Belmar Elementary PTA Pack 622 Supporters of Pack 622 Pack 291 Eiber Elementary School PTA Pack 418 Bear Creek Elementary PTA Pack 548 Green Mountain United Methodist Church Pack 477 Glennon Heights Elementary PTA Call your council or the Charter Organization for Pack contact information.

It is different with a Wolf Den. The boys are SUPPOSED to do MOST of the rank achievements with their families. The summer is a great time for a Wolf or Bear to work with his family on electives & requirements. With Tigers it is different, they are just beginning to find out about Scouting. For rank, there are 5 activities they should do with their families, 5 with the den & 5 outings. That is NOT a whole lot. Also, Tiger Dens are run using SHARED LEADERSHIP. That means that the Tiger Teams should be running the meetings, not the Den Leader 24/7. Spring Tigers can work on their Family Activities & electives, along with their Pack's Summer activities.

I do not think that I have ever seen a council website that had New Leader Essentials and/or Position Specific training during the summer months. During the summer they DO have Woodbadge & University of Scouting training, along with Boy Scout National Youth Leadership Training, Summer Camp & Day Camps. All of these camps & trainings often utilize, as staff, trainers, & sometimes attendees, the very same volunteers who staff NLE & Cub PS trainings. We can only do so much, so often, before we burn ourselves out. And, as others have stated, we volunteers do need some time for our families during the summer too! Most councils have training in the fall & spring. Some have other dates throughout the year also. My council just had their last Cub Position Specific 5/25. You might have just missed your councils training. If there are no NLE or Cub PS coming up in your area, or any area you might be traveling to this summer, then you will have to wait for those until Aug or Sept. In the meantime, as many here have posted, do your online Fast Start & Youth Protection. These will give you a good start. At the end of the Fast Start training they list a number of books that will be helpful to you. The Cub Scout Leader Book, Program Helps for 2006-2007, & the Handbook of the level you are leader for are the ones you should get ASAP. These will all give you a good basis to start with your boys. One more online resource that will help - http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ca This is the BSA National website for Cub Scout Leaders. LOTS of good info here. You should especially check out the "Resources for New Leaders" under Program Support. Happy Scouting!!

One of our Packs activities that is a BIG hit with everyone, is our annual Halloween Haunted House Foodraiser. Each Den plans, puts together & "haunts" & section of the Haunted House. Most of the Den meeting time in Oct is used for making props. The boys & their families love working in the Haunted House. The entry fee is an item for the Food Pantry so our church's Food Pantry ends up well stocked right before the holidays!

The link Dan provided tells all about the US Heritage Awards. The awards can be worn on the pocket as a temporary patch only, or on their patch vest, jacket, blanket, etc. They are not official BSA awards.

OK - I'm confused. If you have just become a member of the BS Troop when your Webelos crossed over this year, how have the camping requirements been met? There are many ways that OA can, & does, support Cub Scouting. Here are some ideas from BSA National - http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-069/index.html Two main ways are by doing service projects at Council Cub Camps & staffing Council/District Cub programs. Please remember, OA, much more so than a regular BS Troop, is YOUTH run. As an adult member of OA it is NOT your job to plan programs or organize activities for the OA youth. BTW - OA does not necessarily provide that many more opportunities within the Troop (beyond the POR of OA Rep). OA brings the boys outside their own little area of Boy Scouting (their Troop) to do "cheerful service" for the wider community.

5 BALOO trained folks is GREAT!! We just got another one to bring us up to 3 (with 2 in the same family-mine!). COOL! What I have came to discover about councils & training is it is NOT, in most cases, the councils fault that the training is not there. I tried for 2 years (4 times) to take BALOO. All four times the training had to be cancled because the ONLY folks signed up were my hubby & me! Sad. In September, the Webelso Outdoor Training was cancled because of lack of interest. The ONLY reason BALOO is now happening is because council has cracked down on approving Tour Permits! Thankfully, instead of doing there own thing, without a Tour Permit, folks are now taking training. I realize it might seem like overkill to those who have camped regularly for years. But, there are a LOT of folks out there who are NOT very camping experienced. If you go into it with an open mind, you just might learn SOMETHING, and then you can bring the joy of camping back to the rest of your Pack! OK - BALOO ad is now finished! BTW - HAPPY CAMPING THIS SUMMER CUB SCOUTS & SCOUTERS!!!

My Physic Energies were flowing! Actually I have no idea what kind of camping jrodriguez2 is planning. However, with the number of folks posting lately about rewriting the BSA program, doing their own thing & then claiming they had no idea it was against the rules or they knew & wanted to do it their way anyway, I just thought I would post an FYI. As for mbeyke, I have no disagreement with him/her. It is EXTREMELY difficult at times in these (& other) forums to understand, clearly, what another poster is trying to get across - or to make sure what you are trying to communicate comes across clearly & correctly. There are also those newbie lurkers who might have even less of a clue than the rest of us. Mbeyke stated - "you are correct about not taking any cub scout den camping without parents" Perhaps because of the aforementioned rewriting of BSA policy, I felt a need to clarify the den camping part. Hey, you can always ignore me. My kids do it all the time!! They also heave giant sighs, roll their eyes, & tell me I need to "get a life" beyond Scouting! HA!

While it is not required, having a Class 1 medical on file, & updated yearly, is not a bad idea. It keeps your medical info up to date & eliminates chasing after the forms when needed. It is easy enough to collect them in the dens, keep a copy in the den & send a copy to the Outings Chair. As your BALOO trained person will tell you, you should have a permission slip for every youth attending a Pack Overnighter. You should also have a Class 1 for every PERSON at a Pack Overnighter. For den outings, except for Tigers, all parents usually do not go. I would have to track down my copy of the Den Leader Book, but I do not think permission slips are required by BSA. However, for den outings especially, but also for Pack outings, I think permission slips are a good idea. They give you proof the parents know about & are allowing their child to attend the outing (even if they are along). They also can serve as an official registration for the event, reminder notice for the fridge, & emergency contact info for both the family & the leaders. For information on Tour Permits, you should contact your council. Each council handles their Local Tour Permits a bit differently. In mine, I do not need a permit if we are only going somewhere in town. Anything beyond that they require a Local Tour Permit. If families are driving on their own, my council does not require license & insurance info. I just have to write on the permit that families are providing their own transportation. I really don't feel that these are things you need to have written policies about unless your Pack is into by-laws. Simply agree in Committee that this is what will be done & do it. Someone who is handy with Word or a spreadsheet can put together a generic permission slip for use by the Pack & den. At the first Committee meeting of the year, hand a stack of Class 1 medical forms, permission slips, & Local Tour Permits to each of the den leaders in the Pack (new & old) & explain (remind) how/when to use each. After a while it will become habit.

I don't want to turn this into another rule discussion. Especially about this rule, which I feel that BSA has spelled out rather clearly. I don't care if they bring parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins & grandparents with them - Tiger, Wolf & Bear dens may NOT do DEN camping. Period. The only way that a Tour Permit would be approved by a council for Tiger, Wolf, or Bear DEN camping is if the leader who filled it out made it LOOK like it was for PACK camping. WEBELOS is the ONLY Cub Scout den that can go out, on their own, & camp as a DEN, & not with the rest of the Pack. Also, a BALOO trained person is NOT required to take a Webelos den camping. BSA highly recommends (SHOULD - in all caps) that the Webelos leaders taking their Scouts den camping be trained in Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders, but, at this time, it is not REQUIRED. BALOO training is required for adults who are organizing & leading any & all PACK overnighters. These are overnight events organized by the PACK for ALL members of the PACK. BALOO training is NOT required to attend Council/District organized events such as Day Camp, Twilight Camp, Resident Camp or Parent/Pal (Family) Camps. BTW - What exactly is LOE?? And why would you think it could substitute for BALOO training? (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

Congratulations!! As of our Pack Graduation last night we had 4 new Tigers, although not all have turned in their apps yet. We had one of the new little guys there last night. His parents have already registered him because they want to sign him (& his brothers!) up for Day Camp. We called him & his mom up on stage, welcomed him into Cubs & gave him his scarf. While this was happening there was a little guy in the audience who just broke down into tears. I found out from his mom after, that her youngest has been watching his brothers & waiting all year for his chance to join. He has been asking mom to sign him up & mom keeps telling him to wait until the end of Summer. Well, when he saw the new Tiger get his scarf the poor kid just lost it! To prevent murder by frustrated Tiger Cub, I quickly gave her an application & she promised to mail it back ASAP! For your gung-ho Tiger Leader, let him know that he is going to be the leader for ALL of the Tiger Teams, not just those 3. Concentrating on Summer activities, Family Achievements & electives, is the way to go. Starting weekly meetings now might burn out the little guy's Partners & leave any new Fall Tiger Teams feeling rather out of place. Also, he should really fill out his Leader app & take Fast Start, Youth Protection, New Leader Essentials & Tiger Specific training, BEFORE he starts meeting with ANY Tigers!

You can not take a Wolf den camping as a DEN in any case, with or without BALOO. Call your council and get info on the Cub Summer Camps, Day Camps & Twilight Camps being put on by the council & the different Districts. If it is too late to sign up - contact the other local councils about their camps. Sign up for BALOO in fall at one of your nearby councils. Then you will be able to put together & run a camping trip for the entire PACK!

Challenging your Webelos to earn the A & S pin is a good idea, but do not forget that the pin does NOT replace the belt loop in the Activity Pin options. They would still have to earn the loop as a Webelos, even if they have earned the same loop while in a different level.

No, you are right, it is NOT a loophole, it is a downright manipulation of the rules to suit what you want to do. BALOO is for PACK camping. Cub Scouts can camp as a PACK - or at a COUNCIL organized camping event (Family Camp, Day Camp, Resident Camp, Parent/Pal, etc). WEBELOS are the ONLY den that can camp as a DEN. ALL Cubs Scouts, including Webelos, should be camping WITH at least ONE PARENT. Exceptions can be made, if neccessary, with a parent giving another adult permission to be in charge of their son, but it is NOT optimal. Cubs is all about FAMILY. Calling your DEN camping trip a Pack family camping trip simply because there are family members present & they are members of the Pack is wrong. You might call it rulemongering, but this is a a rule that BSA is VERY, VERY clear on.

You should have been reinforcing & practicing most of the Bobcat requirements (Promise, Law, Sign, Salute, Motto, Handshake) throughout the year. These might make good gathering activities for your meeting - https://people.creighton.edu/~bjs74318/bluejay/pack114/funpages/bobcat1.html Here are some games - https://people.creighton.edu/~bjs74318/bluejay/pack114/library/bobcat-fun.html Don't forget - Bobcat is NOT complete until the parents sign off on the youth protection booklet at the beginning of the Handbook.

And as a parent, I would feel much better knowing that my son is in a unit that follows BSA rules AND guidelines. He is a registered BSA scout BECAUSE of the BSA program, rules, & guidelines, which I feel are rather good. I would prefer the BSA errs on the side of overkill than let everyone "do their own thing" when it comes to the safety of children.

Unless your Webelos Winter Camp-out is held in a heated lodge or cabin it is not an allowed activity for Webelos Cub Scouts. See the Guide to Safe Scouting - Age Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities : http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf This is an activity usually reserved for TRAINED Boy Scouts, NOT newbie campers & their parents.

Because it is a BSA rule, & if a "40 minute online animated training" helps keep even one child safer then it is worth it. To me at least. BTW - The online Aquatics Safety materials are NOT the training itself. They are considered to be an introduction to the training units. BSA has this to say : "Please note that review of either or both of these units online is considered helpful but does not meet all the BSA qualifications for conducting water-related programs. For more, and before conducting any waterfront or boating activities, contact your local council."

John-in-KC is correct, anytime you do a scout activity (not just a Pack overnighter) that involves a water activity, you MUST have an adult with CURRENT Safe Swim/Safety Afloat training running it. This means even if you go to your local "Y" to swim in their pool with their lifeguards on duty. You might not have to follow all of the Safe Swim procedures, but you will have to follow at least some of them (like the Buddy System).

Funscout - Your brother was correct & I would suggest he purchase a copy of "Safety Wise" & show the pertinent area to his daughter's leader. This is another instance of the differences between the two programs. Family camping is NOT a method in Girl Scouting. There is a definite separation between sexes. This is due, in a large part, to their version of youth protection. If this leader had been properly trained, or even cared enough to read up on safety procedures before taking girls out camping, she would have known better.

Have you taken the outdoor training from your council? There are different levels of training to correspond to the outdoor progression of girls. Many of your questions should be answered there. The training is also mandatory in order to be able to take your girls camping. PS - You should feel lucky that your council organizes anything in the way of a campout. Many, including mine, do not. They leave ALL orgnizing of that kind of thing up to the SU's, Troops, & older girls. Now, with the coming of ginormous councils (& ginormous SU's down the road too), I doubt that, in the future, you will find many council organized events at all.

BSA states in several different pieces of literature that personal insurance comes first. Just some I found searching the BSA National website : From Training the COR - Local Council Responsibilities : "Provide primary general liability insurance to cover the chartered organization and its board, officers, chartered organization representative, and employees against all personal liability judgments. This insurance includes attorney's fees and court costs as well as any judgment brought against the individual or organization. Unit leaders are covered in excess of any personal coverage they might have, or if there is no personal coverage, the BSA insurance immediately picks them up on a primary basis." From the Guide To Safe Scouting : "Scouting $$$ Pay Liability Claims The BSA general liability program is not just insurance. In fact, insurance plays a very small part. Our greatest efforts are spent on safety and injury prevention. BSA self-funds the first million dollars of each liability claim. This means that almost all money spent on a liability claim is Scouting money, not insurance money. Accident and sickness insurance pays regardless of fault as long as the accident occurred during an official Scouting activity and the unit or council has purchased the coverage." I think this pretty much sums it up. If there is a question about coverage you should ask your council.