ScoutNut

You might not know who your Charter Org is, but that does not change the fact that (as NeilLup says) the CO OWNS the Unit, NOT your council. That is the whole point of giving them a charter. The CO could have insisted that both boys & adults be allowed to go to camp. The CO could have insisted that the Troop pay them the cost of the camp fees & then given the money to your Troop. The CO could have pulled the registrations of the Troop leaders who refused to allow your boys at camp & "fired" them. Your BSA Council could do NONE of those things. The MOST your council could do is to try to CONVINCE the CO & it's leaders to do one of the above options. Not FORCE them, only try to CONVINCE them. Explain to your families that condemning the BSA organization for the actions of the people in that one Troop, is like condemning the United States because Shmoville has a speed trap that you got caught in. It just is not going to fly! Hope your boys have fun at Summer Camp!

Hey there Pete! Oh, the life of an ADHD parent, never a dull moment! First, yep, your son blew it big time, & he knew it. Sending him home & removing his knife privileges was a good move. Hopefully he will remember it. I, too, believe the other boy deserves some sort of recognition for his part in this. It takes 2 to tango, as the saying goes. Talk to your CC & maybe come up with some Troop service for the 2 boys to do TOGETHER (properly supervised by an adult, just in case). Learning to work with folks you don't particularly like is a good skill to learn. Boy do I HATE when people start claiming that all ADHD is, is an excuse for bad behavior. As Pete explained, it is NOT an excuse, it IS, however, the REASON the behavior occurred. It means that this boy is not necessarily a crazed, knife wielding, juvenile delinquent. What he is, is a boy who allowed his repetitive, annoying, impulsive behavior, caused in part by his medication, to get way out of control. Pete, make sure that you have your son talk to his doc about this incident. He needs to talk about it & understand. Have them work on things he can do to help himself. You might also see about changing his meds. The roller coaster ride some of these meds take the kids on is very nasty. The short term ones are especially bad when they are abruptly dumped from the system & leave the kids with horrible rebound that is 2X as bad as any of their original symptoms! Ask about the timed release ones that leave the system slowly & evenly. It might help. As you might be able to tell, I'm in the ADHD Parent club too!

OK, I'm confused. Whose Eagle project is it? Tell the mom to back off or her son's project could be impacted. HE is the one who is supposed to be showing leadership - NOT the mom.

Wow Dawg, that was some job interview! I must say though, if I ever saw a BOR that was handled like an inquisition, I would do some fast re-training. It is inappropriate & against BSA policy.

If it is a choice between Webelos Woods (Webelos-ree) and Camporee, tell your Webelos parents to choose Webelos Woods. Webelos Woods are specifically aimed at Webelos Scouts. A Camporee, while it might be interesting to see the Troops in action, is for Boy Scouts, NOT Webelos. Webelos should only be watching NOT participating or camping. (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

Recognizing the signs of heat exhaustion is fine, but preventing it is much better. It sounds to me like a refresher course in preventing heat illness is what is needed here. Some things to do to help your body regulate it's temperature - #1 - DRINK LOTS OF FLUIDS!! 16-32 ounces of cool (not cold) fluids PER HOUR. Do NOT wait until you are thirsty to drink. By then your body is already starting to get dehydrated. (Eamonn is right, the paler the urine the better - try for clear!) No drinks with caffeine or lots of sugar. Sports drinks are good because they replace minerals lost sweating. Wear sunscreen! Broad spectrum SPF 15 or higher. Wear loose, light colored clothes. Wear sunglasses & a hat with a wide brim all around. A floppy hat is good because it not only shades your head & face, but you can wet it down to help keep your head cooler. Wet down your Scout necker too. Limit sun exposure. Stay in the shade as much as possible. Pace yourself & rest often in the shade. If your heart starts to pound &/or you feel confused or lightheaded, STOP, DRINK, & rest in shade, or better yet, air conditioning. Use the buddy system. Preventing heat related illness is not a responsibility you can relegate to someone else. It is up to every individual to use common sense & know what to do to keep themselves cool.

Watercub - did you read the resource at the National website? It is really rather extensive, including program, staffing, planning & even includes sample schedules. As for financing, it would not be much different from any other District event. You need to find out from your DE how much your District is willing to budget & go from there. Anything that you can get donated is a plus.

As I said when I replied, sorry for the DUH. However, I thought Beagle had made it clear in his post, the day before your last post, that there was no minimum attendance required. Given that, I thought I would inject a bit of humor & try to find out what you were really trying to ask.

CCTonya asks - "Its my understanding (and I would love to be wrong), that in order for the dens and individual boys to earn their awards, the pack has to earn the pack award. No pack award, no others. Is this correct?" Sorry Tonya, but I can't help but reply with - Well DUH! The dens/boys have to attend 3 activities that the Pack has conducted during the summer. The Pack has to conduct 3 summertime activities. Is your Pack planning on blowing off it's Aug hike? Although the award application does NOT specifically state that there has to be 1 event in each of the summer months (June, July, Aug), it does have distinct columns for those months where the info is to be input. IMHO, without that Aug activity, even though there are 2 in June & 1 in July, everyone is out of luck for the award. The intent is to keep the boys doing Scouting all summer long. However, your best bet is to ask your DE if your council will accept 2 June, 1 July & no Aug as sufficient for the Summertime Award.

If you want to get a handle on if this Troop can change, contact your Unit Commissioner (or District Commish if there is no UC) & have them attend the meeting in 2 weeks. You should also have your COR & the IH (Institutional Head) of your CO there. The responses you get from that meeting should tell you if the Troop has the potential to change, or if you are better changing Troops.

** An Idea ** If there is nothing unique that works for you, check out Michael's or your local craft store. We found woodies at our Michael's shaped like a campfire that I used for our Packs Webelos one year. If you can find a campfire, you can use Sharpie markers to color it. Brown & black for the logs with red & yellow for the flames. The ones we found were a pretty good size so you could put the name of your Pack, the name of the Resident Camp, the date of the presentation & maybe your signature in sharpie on the back if you print smaller. This way you can present him with a slide of his last campfire AT his last campfire!

IMO, it will be more meaningful to him if you keep it just his den. At your last night's campsite campfire, do a small presentation for him. Maybe have a card that all of the boys have signed. Also, something that will remind him of his "old" Pack, Den & friends would be good. How about a handmade scarf slide? Does your Webelos Den have a den emblem, or just a number? If you are using an emblem, maybe you could glue the emblem to a branch slice or wood round & put the Pack # & date on the back. Is there something unique about your Den, Pack, District, Council or even your hometown, that you could use to create a slide? Something that will remind him of you guys every time he uses it! You could then end it with cupcakes, ice cream, or some such treat. Make sure all of the boys swap email & snail mail address's so they can keep in touch.

A Webelos-Ree is the newest version of a Webelos Woods. It is supposed to be a district or council event, not an individual unit event. Here is info from BSA National on a Webelos-Ree - http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-238/index.html

Check your area Scout Shops. Many of them carry the segments. If none of your area council shops carry the segments, you can order them from Welsh Industries. http://www.welshind.com/segs.htm

"But, after his 1st Class SM Conferece, he told me the ASM only asked if he'd done everything in his book. Didn't ask for explanations or demonstrations. Just signed off because the Scout in question was my son. So, in this instance, I feel I could and would have done a much better job at the SM conference." Why would you ask for explanations or demonstrations at a Scoutmaster Conference? A SMC, like a BOR, is not a retest of requirements already signed off. The purpose of a Scoutmaster Conference is to simply talk to the scout & to encourage him to talk to you. The SM should use the SMC to get to know the scout better, to find out how he feels he is doing in the Troop, if he is fitting in, or having any problems. He should talk to him about how he is living up to the Oath & Law in his everyday life. The SM should discuss the scouts plans for advancement. Check out this supplemental training module for Scoutmaster Conference Training at BSA National's website - http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-629/index.html

OK, my take on the Tiger Paw Print Emblem - Bobcat is the FIRST award they earn & think National kind of forgot about the Tigers earning their Paw Print because none of the other levels have to earn theirs. They can not put any beads on the emblem until after Bobcat anyway, so why not just wait. I am hoping to have all of my Tigers receive their Bobcat at our end of September Pack meeting. So, basically, the Tigers will participate in 2 ceremonies at our Sept meeting. The first will be Bobcat, which will be a biggie this year with Tigers, Wolfs, & any other new Scouts. The second will be when they receive their Paw Print and any rank beads they have earned. On a Pack wide temporary Bobcat Den, I would have to say no. There are some Packs out there that do a workshop for an hour or two on one day for all Bobcats. They go around to stations & read off cards or do a craft or puzzle related to the requirements & then are signed off as Bobcats. The Bobcat requirements are a combination of family & den & should stay that way. I think it means more & stays with the boys better, if the Bobcat requirements are integrated into every Den meeting (for the next 4.5 years!) & practiced/reinforced at home. A TIGER PROGRAM HINT *** There are 5 main requirement areas & 5 months from Sept thru Jan. Assign a requirement area to each month (Lets Go Outdoors is perfect for Sept or Oct!). At your very first Tiger meeting have each Tiger Team sign up for 1 month & 1 requirement area. This will give you a real good chance of getting most to Tiger by Feb's B&G. Then they will have the rest of the year to work on electives & other stuff! A REAL fun thing to do at your first meeting is to come up with a Den Cheer/Yell. Have them see how LOUD they can be. It always makes me laugh to see how amazed they are that I actually WANT them to be loud (& their Adult Partners TOO!)!! Tigers are G-R-R-R-R-R-E-A-T !! HAVE FUN!!

There is no requirement for Eagle at all that states that a Scout has to be active in the Troop for a specified time period IMMEDIATELY PRIOR to receiving his Eagle, simply for 6 months any time after earning Life. So Backwood, you are saying that this SM-Dad BOUGHT the CC's signature on the Eagle application, the good references of 6 people, and the District/Council Advancement Commitee's approval? While the BOR that you described did sound rather strange (there should not be 5 votes - only 1), perhaps you are viewing the whole process from the skewed perspecitve of one who very obviously does not like this boy or his family. Consider for a moment - what if he really did earn it?

IMO, the only way a Pack can consider Day or Resident Summer Camp an individual thing instead of a Pack activity is if you do not promote and/or encourage it within your Pack. As soon as our council puts out their new calendar, our Pack Committee sits down & picks the weekend our Pack will go to Summer Camp, although families are encouraged to sign up individually for any of the dates/locations if another one works better for them. One of the leaders who is planning on attending will become our Summer Camp Guy. For District Day Camp, I usually become the Day Camp Guy. As soon as info is put out by council on these events, we will make up flyers & registration sheets. These are mailed to every family & handed out at Den & Pack meetings. We will have our Camp Guys register for their camp as a Pack. This insures that we are all put together. We will start promoting Summer Camps in September by showing all of the pictures we have from THIS summer's camps! (VKScouter take lots of pictures at resident camp to show at your first Pack meeting. Maybe you can get a few more boys interested for next year!) I think we almost put more time & effort into scheduling & promoting the Summer Camps than we do any of the other Summer activities! As for the Pack not running the Summer Camps, I just spent the past weekend working as staff at council's Cub Adventure Summer Camp Weekend. We had 4 families from our Pack attend. I will also be working at our District's Day camp. So far we have 15 of our boys signed up! FUN TIMES!! Our Summer schedule shaped up like this - June - Pack Family Camp & Day Hike July - Cub Summer Camp & Minor League Baseball Aug - Day Camp & Pack Picnic I think we are going to end up with a few boys getting their individual Summertime Award! VKScouter, it's not to late to throw together an impromptu day or bike hike for July. Pick someplace interesting, but close by & maybe have the Pack pay for popsicles and/or trail mix for the participants! If that can't happen, then by all means, count the Air Show & have FUN!

Cub Scouts is not like school, or it should not be. Tigers is not the boys standing up in front of the whole Pack reciting things. That is not even necessary to earn the Bobcat. Tigers work TOGETHER with their Partners inside & OUTSIDE of weekly den meetings. Bobcat does not have to (& should not) be earned in 1 meeting. It takes time. Every time the Tiger Teams get together, weather for a den meeting or an outing, they should start their activity with the Promise, Law & Sign. Doing this as a part of a living circle is fun for the boys & adds a bit of ceremony. They can start by reciting it (Tigers & Partners TOGETHER) after the den leader (no reading necessary). At the end of every Tiger Team activity they can end with the Tiger Teams doing the Handshake & reciting the Motto (can recite it after the leader, but it is easy enough to remember). In 1 or 2 months, after discussing some the meanings in den meetings & reinforcing by the Tiger Partner at home, the boys should have their Bobcat requirements done. They really are NOT hard, even for 1st graders, especially if they are made FUN!

Grampye - What was your response, as SM, to these incidents?

It is a blurb (" note, as of 06/01/06, etc, etc, etc") in the new Cub Scout Leader Book. I don't know the copyright date or edition, but it has been out for a while. It is also mentioned in the Tiger Cub Scout Fast Start & was mentioned in the News Briefs section of the May-June 2006 issue of Scouting magazine.

Yup! As of June 1, 2006 - Bobcat FIRST - Then Tiger. Also, the Tiger Motto, like the Tiger Promise, is no more. The only Motto, Promise, or Law is that of the Cub Scout.

Oh!! THAT Tower of Power!! But - They are from CA, not TX!

Dozy - All I can say is WOW! That would be a lot of long distance phone charges if I called Texas every time someone told me something I did not agree with! Who exactly is this "tower of power"? Somehow, I really doubt you have spoken with the Chief Scout Executive of the BSA. I am all for following the BSA program as it has been laid out by BSA. However, I prefer to take BSA training, check BSA manuals, and communicate with the professionals & volunteers in my own local District & Council to calling National Council constantly. This is what NATIONAL COUNCIL, through it's National website has to say about BOR appeals - http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-625/index.html "If the Scout is not advancing, the board should certainly give the Scout the opportunity of learning what he needs to do to advance. He should be given a definite time for a subsequent board of review. Finally he should be given information about appeal procedures." and "An appeal from a local board of review would be taken to the district advancement committee, and from there to the council advancement committee, and finally to the National Boy Scout Committee. When an appeal is made, the committee to whom the appeal is addressed will promptly review the facts. All parties must be interviewed by the committee, hopefully without confrontation. A written report with all details will be prepared by the reviewing committee and forwarded to the National Boy Scout Committee. Appeals to the National Boy Scout Committee are made only through the local council. There is no direct appeal." From the last 2 lines you can see that National works THROUGH the local councils. Your District has decided to hold another BOR for this boy. That is a GOOD thing. They most likely have decided that the first BOR was so flawed that a new one is needed. Yet, you are still not satisfied & take it upon your self to contact National, even though literature by your "tower of power" specifically states you are NOT to do this. Merit Badge Counselors - According to BSA literature, qualified, registered, trained, MBC's DO have the final say on signing off on their MB's. If a counselor is found to be truly bad, the District Advancement Committee should be contacted & told of this. It is then up to them to follow thru & decide if they want to take the counselor off of the approved MBC list or not. It the meantime the SM has the option of NOT recommending that MBC to any of the scouts in his Troop. Calling National will not change this, it is how the program is set up. Who is responsible for Advancement - I do not think that a call to National for any "Clarification of Policy" is needed. In just about every piece of BSA literature that discusses the "Method of Advancement" it states - http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-503.html "The Boy Scout plans his advancement and progresses at his own pace as he meets each challenge." This is directly quoted from the website of your "tower of power". From what I have read, you are in a no win situation. You have stated clearly that your "old guard" will NOT change. You have also stated clearly that the "new guard" will not change. Then you state that you are not a "quitter" so you do not plan on leaving this Troop. So, the "old" & "new" end up constantly fighting with each other & trying to make points against the other side in the struggle. Just where does this leave the boys that you state you do not want hurt? To it sounds like they are stuck between a rock & hard place. Find a new Charter Org and start your own Troop. Bring over all of the "new guard" and their boys. Leave the "old guard", and the families that prefer them, to themselves with the old CO. This is not quitting. This is providing boys a BSA Scout program free from constant adult fighting. This is helping the BOYS get the BSA program they deserve. Of course, you could always call National & ask them what they think.

Dozy, I appreciate that you are passionate about Scouting. It is also a good thing that you support your SM hubby. And, I think we all realize how frustrated you are by your current Troops Committee. However, you need to lighten up a bit. No one here is attacking you, or the BSA. No one here is saying that they know more than the BSA. No one here is saying to ignore BSA or its training. As a matter of fact, there are many Woodbadge trained folks on these forums. What we ARE trying to tell you is that training does NOT make you perfect. None of us, including you & your SM, are perfect. We are all just trying to follow the BSA program as best as we know how & learning new things as we go. A SM sets goals (including advancement) for the Troop as a WHOLE. NOT for individual scouts. A SM guides, NOT mandates. Yes, advancement & MBs CAN affect how boy-led a Troop is. Every time a SM, or any other Troop adult, takes a decision away from a scout and/or the PLC (Patrol Leader Council), & makes it FOR them, it takes away from the BOY-led aspect of the Troop. A SM should never tell a PLC what activities they should or should not do. A SM should NOT do their planning FOR them. An example - If a Troop has a lot of new Scouts, the SM might encourage the PLC to include an activity on knots (which are needed for advancement) in some of their upcoming program activities. The SM might suggest the PLC consider something that will help older scouts to brush up on their skills while helping to teach the knots to the new scouts. The SM might even suggest an activity like a pioneering theme & offer to provide all of the materials. However, it is up to the PLC to decide exactly what they want to do. A SM is supposed to make sure that the boys in the Troop have the tools & the opportunities they need to advance. He is NOT supposed to make their decisions for them. Another example The SM determines that there are a number of boys who need to earn the First Aid Merit Badge. What he does NOT do is to tell these boys that they are NOT allowed to earn any other MB (even ones they are really fired up about earning) until they earn First Aid. Instead, he might let the PLC know of the need for the MB, ask the PLC to consider having a MB Counselor come & do a presentation to the Troop, giving the boys who need the MB an opportunity to sign up with the MBC to earn the badge. Then it is up to the PLC to decide if they want to include the MBC in a Troop meeting & up to the boys if they want to take advantage of the opportunity offered to them. They should NOT be FORCED. You say that you are only quoting the BSA rules & guidelines, and that it is the BSA Way that boys are NOT responsible for their own MB choices & advancement timetable. Well, I do not have any of the BSA books with me here at work, but how about a couple of quotes from a BSA Supplemental Training Module Orientation for New Boy Scout Parents, found on the BSA National Website http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-110/index.html You may recall that the Scouting program has three aims or purposes: character development, citizenship training, and physical and mental fitness. What makes Boy Scouting unique is that it has eight methods it uses to achieve those aims. Those eight methods define Boy Scouting and show how it is different from other programs. It goes on to describe the 8 Methods of Scouting. The one you might be interested in is AdvancementBoy Scouting has a system of ranks in which Scouts learn progressively more difficult skills and take on progressively greater responsibilities. The highest of these ranks is Eagle Scout. Becoming an Eagle Scout is an important achievement that your son can be proud of his entire life. But turning out Eagle Scouts is not what the Boy Scouting program is all about. Advancement is probably the most visible of the Boy Scouting methods, and the easiest to understand, but it is only one of eight methods. We strongly encourage advancement, but we never force itadvancement is the Scout's choice, and he sets his own pace. We don't do "lock-step" advancement. And many great Scouts, and great men, never became Eagle Scouts. THAT, I think, best describes the BSA Way for advancement.