ScoutNut

"Family payment histories, individual kids' fundraisin' levels, and especially records of financial aid/support/camperships for any boys" These things do not need to be a part of a distributed financial report. It can be consolidated down to income & expenditures for various events with out a listing of names. It is a part of the Treasurer's job to report at the monthly Committee/Leader's meetings, & to the CO, on the unit's finances. Many parents have no idea how much money it takes to run a unit. Seeing that simply the awards for the year can cost a unit $1,000 is eye opening for some.

As the others have said the requirement states 30 days, not 2 years. However, if he has been working on his upper body strength for 2 years, I can not understand why there has not been even a tiny bit of improvement. It says show improvement, not become a body builder. As others have noted even 1/2 of a pull-up more is an improvement. Have your son talk to his SM, Advancement Chair, or whoever is in charge of signing off on this requirement. After 2 years with no advancement your SM should be stepping in to see what is going wrong.

A financial report should be printed off & given to all families at least yearly. They have a right to see where all of their fundraising efforts are going. It might even stimulate them to work a bit harder (or the opposite if you have large reserves of money that go unused from year to year) at fundraising. As for your CO, they own your unit, & technically, all of the money in your unit bank account. They should also be getting a financial report at least yearly & something that summarizes what their Troop has been doing all year. I would not worry about any complaint to District about your finances. As I stated, the money is your CO's, NOT your Districts. Districts traditionally will leave the CO to handle things like this. It might not be a bad idea to send out a financial report to your CO & families at this time though.

Speaking of training, here is an example - "The troop has offered to take us along on campouts, which could give us something interesting to put on the calendar." Hopefully that means JUST the 3 Webelos & their parents. Cub Scouts do not camp the same as Boy Scouts. There are different rules & regulations that must be followed. In order to take the entire Pack camping, even with the BS Troop, there MUST be an adult in charge, & attending, who is BALOO trained.

What is your Charter Organization & where are they in all of this? The Pack belongs to the CO & their support is as important (or more) than that of your DE. It is your CO who who can "pull the plug" on the Pack. It sounds like your Pack has never put together a year-round program or been trained. If they want to stay in business they need to do both. It is also important for them to get their CO back into the picture. There are various things that can be done for recruiting. Would your Troop be willing to help out? With the assistance of the Boy Scouts in your Troop you could put on a Cub Scout Fun Day at a nearby park. Have stations for different activities. If you have access to a movie screen (your CO, the school, the library), or even a projector with a place to hang a sheet, you can have a movie night and show Down n' Derby or Follow Me Boys. A Game Night. An Ice Cream Social with each boy making his own ice cream in a baggie or can. As others have said, once you sign up the boys there HAS to be a good program to keep them. If your Pack can not put together a decent ongoing program, then they will be facing this same problem again next Sept as families bail when they realize the Pack is all talk & no substance. (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

At least that's a better headline than - "People hospitalized with food poisoning from Boy Scout Pancake Breakfast"

In my state & town if you are cooking & selling food you need a permit, a foodservice certified person in charge (there is a course & test they must take & pass), and be inspected by the local Health Dept. The same is needed for the schools to provide hot lunches. Pre-packaged food like popcorn, candy, nuts, cookies, etc, are not subject to the same regulations. At least the end users/sellers are not. I am sure the factories where the food is produced does have its own health & foodservice regulations to follow.

dsantos, how much are your Pack fees?

How about starting by joining one of the Charter Organizations in your area. Usually the CO's pick from their membership for unit leaders. Remember, it is the CO who has final say (aside from the council background check) on who it's leaders are. Getting to know the other families in your area is also a great place to begin. While your girls might not be in school yet, they do play with other kids, right? Get to know their families, your neighbors, the folks at your church. Some of them might have boys in scouts. Offer to help them with something. Do you have a special interest or skill that you could share? Once you get to know some of the Scouts in your neighborhood, talk to their Troop about signing on as a Merit Badge Counselor. Signing on as a Unit Commissioner at the District level is a good idea too. Ask your DE if UC's are needed in your District. Usually the answer is YES! You do not have to be attached to a unit to register with council as a UC. If none of the above appeals to you, or if it all falls thru, take heart. You can STILL be involved in Scouting! In a few more years, once they start Kindergarten, your daughters can register with GSUSA as Daisy Girl Scouts. Then you can sign on as a Girl Scout Troop Leader! Good Luck!

With 12 Scouts you have enough for 2 patrols. It is easier agreeing on a menu for 4-6 boys than for 8-12. Each patrol should do their own menu. CSJo is correct, the boys who need the cooking requirements should be the ones in charge of the menus. Before the planning session starts you might remind them that they need to take into consideration any algeries & that they will not be able to please everyone all of the time so they should ALL be prepared to make some consessions. After that it is up to them. It might seem like a disaster to you, & it might even actually BE one. However, the boys learn through their mistakes, and if you have an older Scout in each patrol he might be able to guide them past some of HIS mistakes. At this point every Scout there has a working knowledge of the Food Pyramid. If the younger guys bully the patrol into doing a meal of poptarts, maybe the older ones will put their foot down the next time.

I do not think you realize just how much coordination & work is involved in a Pancake Breakfast or a Spaghetti Dinner! In most states you would need to have a foodservice certified person in charge of the event. It takes $ to become certified. The facilities would have to be inspected by your health department. A Unit Money Earning Application would have to be approved by your council. Food products, paper goods, eating products, serving products, etc would all have to be either purchased or donated by someone. If you have them donated, letters have to be sent to various different possible donors WELL in advance of the actual date. Then there are the actual cooking facilities. Do you have stoves, ovens & griddles capable of cooking (& keeping safely warm) large amounts of food? Would you have to rent them? Then there is the selling of the tickets & the scheduling of the work shifts for the actual event. And you want to do this once EVERY MONTH????? Not in any of the units I volunteer in you wouldn't! My son's Boy Scout Troop does a Pancake Breakfast every March & they start working on it in January or sooner! If your Committee decides on a meal type of fundraiser to augment it's popcorn sales & Pack dues, I would suggest ONE a bit later on. March might be good because the treasury might be rather depleted after Blue & Gold in February.

"his LIFE" not "his SCOUT MEETINGS". Big difference. I think that a SM conference is in order to talk to him about why he does not want to attend meetings. Perhaps there is a problem there that you should know about. Is there a problem between boys? Is he bored at meetings? Is he bored with Scouts? What could the Troop do differently that would encourage him to become more involved again? This could be a learning moment for BOTH of you!

http://www.thescoutzone.org/locator.html This is a link for the Troop locator on BSA's recruiting Web site for Boy Scouts. http://www.joincubscouting.org/locator/index.html This is a link for the Pack locator on BSA's recruiting Web site for Cub Scouts. Both sites list, by city, the unit number & the Charter Organization name in your area. It also has all contact info for your local council. If your religious organization is a CO for a unit I would start there. Also check out your daughters school for any units. Basically, if you are already known by the Charter Org in some way, it will make it easier for you to approach them. Good Luck.

Research - Not a brand new novel idea. BSA has been doing research on various aspects of Scouting since it's inception over 90 years ago. Some of their recent results they post on their National Web site. Some of their ongoing surveys, like changes to the BS Handbook, are on there also. National Strategic Plan - Also not something new. As someone said, corporations plan for the future. BSA is a corporation and it has ALWAYS planned for the future. Some of the recent National Strategic Plans have been - 1998-2002 Scouting into the Next Millennium, 2002-2005 On My Honor, Timeless Values. The new one is 2006-2010 When Tradition Meets Tomorrow. Uniform - ScoutStuff has had surveys on it's site for years about uniform changes you would like to see. Many of the changes to the current uniform have been as a result of feedback from Scouts & Scouters on these surveys. Some of those changes have been additional pockets added to the pants & shorts in 1999 & the new Switchbacks added this past summer. I think it is extremely unrealistic to expect there to EVER be a uniform, for ANY organization, that our youth would WANT (much less ASK) to wear to school. Heck, they don't want to even wear their school uniforms to school! Dropping Memberships - BSA National is doing what it can from it's end. It is providing an up to date program that will fulfill BSA's Mission & Vision, and constantly working to improve that program. However, a program, even one with snazzy icons, uniforms & activities, is ONLY as good as the volunteers who deliver that program. Kids (& families) will NOT register for a program based simply on snazzy icons, cool uniforms (an oxymoron if ever there was one!) & rock music. And, if by chance, they do register for those reasons, they will NOT STAY. While BSA National is doing it's thing to improve & update it's programs (which we can have little impact on), we should be concentrating on what we CAN have an impact on. Increasing the memberships in our OWN UNITS. Going around to every Web site & forum possible, blaming National, & everyone else who does not agree, for falling numbers, is NOT going to change ANYTHING. The ONLY thing that will work is if WE, ALL OF US involved as volunteers in the BSA, do our utmost to deliver the BEST POSSIBLE program to the youth WE serve. That IS, after all, why we are here doing this. If WE make sure that the youth we serve are excited by the program WE deliver, and if WE increase OUR unit memberships by even as little as ONE member each year, THAT will work. So, from 2004 to 2005 the BSA Pack that I serve had a membership INCREASE of 16%. From 2005 to 2006 we had a membership INCREASE of 28%. What about YOUR units? Increase, decrease, or static? Brian, what about YOUR unit(s)? You have mentioned in passing a BS Troop & a Venturing Crew. Have you tried out any of your ideas on them? How well have they worked? Especially with the Venturing Crew, which is the most modern program BSA has, with none of your uniform issues. How have the membership numbers in YOUR units faired?

I can tell that you are energized & want to get involved, & that is a GOOD thing!. However - You are also brand new to Scouting. You have taken the online courses (GREAT START!), attended a Pow Wow (don't know what courses you took there but they are usually informative & fun), are taking Leader Specific today (I am assuming for Cubmaster since you say you originally volunteered as Asst CM (not ASM different program!) & hopefully New Leader Essentials as well), and are taking First Aid next weekend (if it is the all day training w/CPR included for just $20 it is a DEAL!). You are still BRAND NEW, with little or no practical experience under your belt, & it sounds to me like you might be biting off more than you should right now. Here is what you have taken on : ACM - or as designated by the Cubmaster - Help the Cubmaster as needed. Be ready to fill in for the Cubmaster, if necessary. Complete Cubmaster Fast Start Training and position-specific Basic Leader Training. Attend monthly roundtables. Participate in pack meetings. Supervise den chiefs and see that they are trained. Conduct the monthly den chief planning meeting for all den leaders, assistant den leaders, and den chiefs to plan and coordinate weekly den meetings and pack meeting participation. Work with neighborhood troops that supply den chiefs and into which Webelos Scouts may graduate. Help inform pack leaders of training opportunities and arrange for them to attend training sessions. Work with the pack committee to develop and promote an ongoing plan for recruiting new boys. Work with the Cubmaster and pack committee on pack reregistration. Help with pack activities, such as dinners, derbies, bike safety workshops, service projects, etc. Work with the pack committee on outings to see that the pack and dens qualify for the National Summertime Pack Award. Participate in the annual pack program planning conference and pack leaders' meetings. Promote the religious emblems program. Support the policies of the BSA. PACK GROWTH COORDINATOR - I have never heard of this position. The closest I could come to this would be the MEMBERSHIP & REGISTRATION CHAIR which is a member of the Pack Committee - Prepare reregistration papers and an annual report to the chartered organization. Secure signatures and registration fees for the coming year. Ask the chartered organization representative to submit a charter application and annual report to the chartered organization for approval. Arrange for periodic uniform inspections with the unit commissioner. At least a month before charter expiration, also arrange for the annual membership inventory, a uniform inspection, and the annual charter review meeting. Help the Cubmaster and chartered organization representative plan and conduct the formal charter presentation. Conduct an annual census of boys in the chartered organization for systematic recruitment. Work with pack committee members to promote recruitment plans. Visit new families in their homes. Review with them the Bobcat requirements and "Parent Guide" in their son's handbook. Emphasize the part that the family plays in their son's advancement. Stress parent/guardian participation at all pack functions and see that new families are introduced and feel welcome at pack meetings. Work with the Cubmaster and pack committee to develop and carry out a plan for year-round membership growth. Work with the Cubmaster and pack committee to see that eligible Tiger Cubs transition into a Wolf den at the appropriate time. eligible Wolf Cub Scouts or 9-year-old Cub Scouts transition into a Bear den at the appropriate time. eligible Bear Cub Scouts or 10-year-old Cub Scouts transition into a Webelos den at the appropriate time. Webelos Scouts and parents or guardians have a smooth transition into a Boy Scout troop. Work with the Cubmaster in following up on former pack members who are now Boy Scouts and potential den chiefs. Follow up on Cub Scout dropouts to help return them to full, active membership. OUTINGS PLANNER - Also a Pack Committee Member position - Help the Cubmaster plan and arrange for outdoor activities. Arrange for property, fire, and tour permits when required. Locate new picnic areas. Arrange for safe transportation when needed. Plan first aid for emergencies. Help Webelos den leaders plan Webelos overnight campouts. Help arrange for equipment, as needed. Arrange for Safe Swim Defense implementation for all outings involving swimming. Plan outings to help pack and dens qualify for the National Summertime Pack Award. Help inform parents and guardians about opportunities for family camping. Ensure that at least one adult has completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO) before any pack campout. Help promote day camp and resident camp opportunities. Be aware of BSA health and safety requirements and see that they are implemented. Know and carry out BSA outdoor program policy related to Cub Scouting. Review all activities to ensure that unit leaders comply with BSA policies in the Guide to Safe Scouting. PACK TRAINER - Conducting orientation of new families and pack leaders Encouraging pack leaders to attend Cub Scout Leader Basic Training, which includes New Leader Essentials and Cub Scout Leader Specific Training Helping with Unit Leadership Enhancements during pack leaders' meetings Conducting other training as designated by the district and/or council Encouraging pack leaders to attend ongoing training such as Youth Protection training, roundtable, pow wow, BALOO, Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders, and Wood Badge Remaining current with training material and program updates Keeping track of pack training records Encouraging den chiefs to attend Den Chief Training ASST DEN LEADER - WOLF DEN - You had stated this in one of your other posts - Help the den leader as needed. Carry out the duties assigned by the den leader. Be ready to fill in for the den leader in case of an emergency. Help establish a close working relationship with the den leader and den chief, functioning with them as a den leadership team. Complete Cub Scout den leader Fast Start Training and position-specific Basic Leader Training. Attend monthly roundtables. Attend pack meetings and help as needed. Take part in the annual pack program planning conference and pack leaders' meetings. Attend the monthly den chief planning meeting for den leaders, assistant den leaders, and den chiefs. Work in harmony with other den and pack leaders. Support the policies of the BSA. These are position responsibilities as outlined by BSA. This is enough work to get an experienced Scouter burned out in 1 week, much less someone who has been in the program for only 3 months!! Slow down! Pick ONE job that you are REALLY interested in doing and do ONLY that ONE job. Do it well. Learn about your Pack, your District, your Council & BSA as you go. Next year, after you have a real feel for your Pack & den, have a better understanding of the time & effort that is needed to do some of these jobs well, & have a better understanding of how much of your time you can realistically give, then you can consider volunteering for ONE more thing. Doing to many things, to soon, will lead to many of them not being done well & to you getting burned out completely. With 80+ boys in your Pack, there is absolutely no reason for YOU to do all of these things! Your Committee Chair should be able to easily find a few more volunteers to fill these positions.

My Pack sold $12,500 this year with 45 Scouts. With that money we pay for all advancements & awards, handbooks, scarf/slide, red patch vest w/council patch, mothers ribbons/pins, den numerals for shirt, any costs for Pack meetings (including speaker costs), Pinewood Derby cars, Christmas present for all scouts & sibs at Holiday Pack meeting (Tonight!), regular training costs for leaders (not Wood Badge or Phillmont, to much $), & the Scouts fees for any Pack outing. We also try to keep any costs (outings, Blue & Gold, etc) for the families as low as possible. Uniforms are typically the responsibility of the individual family or volunteer. We encourage proper uniforming & do our best to demonstrate it. We don't REQUIRE it. We do not charge Pack dues and the popcorn is our only fundraiser. Den dues are up to each individual den to figure out based on the costs involved in what they want to do over the year. We have a large communal cabinet in the room the dens meet in that is full of various "stuff". Lots of craft supplies and things people have come accross that they felt could be useful. As things get used up they are replaced by parents and leaders. This helps out a lot! With your Pack having about double the number of boys (80+) as mine (45), I can understand their consternation at having only sold $11,000 in popcorn. Is this a big drop from previous years? How much are your Pack Dues? What does your Pack typically pay for (or did last year)? It sounds to me like they need to do a better job with figuring their budget & communicating to their families what they are selling popcorn for. Their options now are to cut back on what they would normally pay for, hold another fundraiser, or both.

"Yet their website and news story says this is the first change for them in 30 years! How do you figure?" Because you did not read the news article OR the Web site well enough. The complete quote from the article is : "Girl Scouts of the USA is undertaking its first overhaul in more than 30 years - and certainly its most wide-ranging." It does NOT say "change" - it says "overhaul". BIG, BIG difference! GSUSA, like BSA, makes changes to its literature & program every few years. BTW, from the same article, on the point of dropping membership : "America's largest girls' club has maintained its membership well enough, and reaches more than 10 percent of girls ages 5 to 17." Also, BTW, whenever GSUSA mentions the words "study" or "survey", its membership tends to get heart palpations & knotted stomachs, waiting for the next proverbial boot to drop. GSUSA does not have a very good track record with their much vaunted "studies & surveys"!

In 2001 Tigers lost their Tiger Promise & gained their Tiger rank award. In August of 2004 Tigers went to the blue Cub Scout uniform & and pocket totem. In June of 2006, earning the Bobcat rank was moved to before the Tiger rank & the Tigers lost their Tiger Motto. The changes were made to fully integrate Tigers into the Cub Scout program.

"But the big change that is going to really help the GSUSA is that they are updating their uniforms so that high-school aged girls can have neckers! I think you should really be pleased about that." ROFLMBO!!!!!!!! Thanks so much SW, I had completely forgotten about that! John you are right about the council consolidation. Because of financialy troubled councils (not necessarily low membership numbers) GSUSA redrew its council boundaries based on population, median income & a few other criteria. They went from 310 to 109 HUGE councils.

Where are his friends from Kindergarten going? That could be a big incentive for him (maybe not for you though).

BSA's computer system starts the new year on June 1st. So for registering new Tigers, as long as it is after June 1st you will be fine. The bigger question, as some have mentioned, is if your Pack has a summer program to keep new Tigers active. If you have an active Pack, then sign him up in June. If your Pack takes the summer off, then I would not sign up Tigers until your Pack starts up again. However, it is your son, & even if your Pack goes inactive for the summer, that does not mean that you have to. You can register your Tiger in June & sign him up for Day Camp & any other camps your council has open to Tigers. You can also work with him on his family achievements & electives. So, the answer to weather your son starts in June or August is really up to you.

Just as BSA has ALWAYS changed to keep up with the times, so has GSUSA. As they like to say, it is a Scout MOVEMENT, so it should move. Unfortunately, unlike BSA, GSUSA tends to change rather more often, & without sufficient thought in some cases. After their last debacle, a few years ago, & with the financial troubles of many of their councils, they decided maybe they needed some major changes. Only time will tell if these changes are good or bad. Fortunately, like BSA, if the adults in the trenches do a good job with the kids in their charge, that is what truly counts. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Instead of being an Asst CM, which they obviously DON'T need, why don't you volunteer to be Asst Den Leader for your Wolf den? That is a position that obviously NEEDS filling! Your CC was out of line - you are a volunteer too & don't deserve to have your time (which you could have spent working with your son on his Wolf requirements!) wasted. BTW - Your council provides First Aid training? Is CPR included & how much do they charge?

Our regular Pack meetings run between 1 and 1.5 hours with about another 1/2 hour for clean up after that. Special Pack meetings that include dinner usually go about another 45 min to 1 hr longer.

It is possible for a boy to earn the AOL in one year rather than the usual 18 months. I believe that the Webelos Leaders Guide contains helps for doing just that. It will take a lot of work on the part of these 3 boys & their families, especially considering the other 2 boys in the den will be going at the regular rate. You said that you are looking at May of their 4th grade year for them to crossover? If they really want to earn the AOL before crossing over, why not give them some more time? They can be a registered Cub Scout until they are 11 1/2. This would give them the summer to attend Webelos Summer Camp & stay active with the Pack. Most BS Troops could not get a brand new Boy Scout in May & be able to take them to BS Summer Camp right away. Most likely the boys would sit idle all summer & might lose interest. Also, you would have until about November to be able to get all of the boys to a few different Troop visits & to work on AOL stuff. The Webelos could stay together longer & the older boys (& maybe the other 2 also) could cross to a Boy Scout Troop in Nov or Dec.