ScoutNut

There could have been a lot of things going on here, but from the news reports the boy did not want to go camping at all. His father basically bribed him to go, the boy wanted $5 if he did not have fun, his father said he would take him some place "fun" after the camping trip. The boy told his tent mate, & I believe other scouts, he did not want to be there. His father stated that he needed to AGAIN talk to his son about not hitchhiking. It seems he has a history of wandering away & hitchhiking. It appears the boy just up and decided he did not want to be there any more, so he left.

The DE might be a "great guy", but he should have verified things with his boss before giving his OK. Your DE dropped the ball badly. "the Council and expects the Pack to schedule the Derby, organize it, plan activities (beltloops & pins) and to run concessions." In most Councils, the District events are run by volunteers. This is not unusual. However, usually the DE will be in attendance, or at LEAST make an appearance to see how things are going. Even though your Pack is the "host", that does not mean that all of the volunteers have to come from ONLY your Pack. You could have added an appeal for volunteers to the flier & done another appeal at both the Pack & Troop session of the month's Roundtable. You could have contacted area Troops to help out with staff (adult & youth). Hopefully you have all of that covered by now. As for the concessions, it is not included in the budget for the event & your SE refuses to allow your Pack to be reimbursed thru the sales. Unless your Pack can afford to donate the cost to council, I would drop the concessions completely. Let your DE know this ASAP. If anyone asks, let them know that due to an oversight on the council's part, it did not get into the budget.

That sounds like a pretty good plan. Will you have a specific position on the Committee? Make sure you check out all of your council's training dates. You are not limited to taking the training in your District, or even in your Council. Getting to know your Council folks (paid & volunteer) is a good idea. Check to see if your council has some kind of newsletter & sign up to receive it. That way you will know what is going on in the council. As a member of your Committee, you should also become familiar with your Pack's Charter Organization(CO) and it's Charter Org Representative(COR). The Charter Org owns the Pack & the COR is the "middle man" between the CO & the Pack. The COR is also a voting member of the District Committee & has a voice in how the council is run (although few choose to participate). The COR, along with the Committee Chair(CC), are also responsible for recruiting new volunteers. You haven't mentioned a CC in your Pack. Do you have one? A strong CC can do a great job pulling a Pack together. BSA National Web site has a lot of info for new parents & leaders. Check out the Cub Scout Adult Leader area - http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ca Good Luck! (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

It can be hard with only 3 Tiger Teams, but at least with everyone there you have 6 people which is a good number for activities! Get the other 2 Tiger Teams involved in planning some meetings too. That is part of Shared Leadership for Tigers. If they are running the meeting they are more likely to show up! Have the boys all finished their Tiger Rank Award? If not, you can work on some of those at your meetings. There are a lot of fun electives that will work with a small group too. Outings are fun, can cover lots of requirements or electives & the families will be more likely to attend. Use your local resources like grocery stores, zoo, museums, nature centers, hiking trails, bike trails, train stations, banks, recycling center, newspaper, bakery, animal rescue, radio station, bike shop, etc. Actually having a small group could be better for tours. Use your den meetings to plan for your part in your Pack meetings. This month my Pack is doing a Showtime theme. My Tiger Teams are working on their skits. Next month is our Cardboard Boxcar relay race. We will be using most of our Den meetings to build our cardboard vehicle. Spring is actually trying to appear. Go hike thru a local park & pick up litter. Make bird feeders & hang them outside. Make homemade kites & fly them. With so much to do, there is no reason for boring meetings!

"I see my use-ta-be Cubs all the time, both in other Scout events and in passing in the community." Well, at least they are still in Scouts. Scrappin', Wow, what a mess. It sounds to me like NOBODY in your Pack is trained. The other dens were started the same way yours was, "you don't really have to do anything - the boys just want to go to camp". Unfortunately they NEVER get to camp! If you want to stick with this Pack, I would suggest registering & getting trained as the Den Leader. That directly affects your son's program and is the most important thing to you right now. Also, as a Den Leader you can attend Pack Committee Meetings & put various "bugs" in the committee's ear about how a Pack really SHOULD be run! I know, I know, you would actually need a committee, but it can get there eventually. Word of mouth is a wonderful thing. Once you get your den off & running the way Lord BP had in mind, you should be able to recruit more boys. Once the other dens see your success, they might get off their back ends & provide the program BSA promised these boys. ALL PACK LEADERS, DEN & OTHERS, SHOULD BE TRAINED! This will alleviate a LOT of your problems, Unless, of course, they just do not care. BTW - Your Tiger Den's Scouting For Food event - Is this in conjunction with the council wide Scouting For Food? Or is this just something with just your Pack? If this is Council wide, (& the best way to find out is to give them a call & ask) then your District will have info & rules/regulations. If it is Pack only, then get your den together & see what they want to do. You can organize a food drive at the boy's school, send out fliers to the community, get the whole town involved, whatever you guys want! If it is the Council wide SFF effort then your District SFF Chair should be able to help. How do you find out about these things? ATTEND YOUR MONTHLY DISTRICT ROUNDTABLE!!!! S.T.A.R's = Scouters That Attend Roundtable !

Wow, That's quite a statement that both your Den & Pack (with the exception of your Cubmaster) stink! Would you care to expand on that comment? As for your questions - "When you have pack activities/events, is a particular den responsible for each activity/event? How do you give that den the necessary information to plan adequately?" I guess it would depend on the activity. For Pack meetings, each month a den is the "host". They are responsible for the flag opening/closing, gathering activity & snacks. The CM will get special speakers. For Pack Camping the BALOO trained leaders are in charge. They put everything together & allocate any duties. For trips to ball or hockey games, the CM contacts the school bus co to rent a bus & the venue for tickets & will sometimes do a flier. For any other event - picnic, kite fly, fishing derby, outing, summer camp, etc, it is coordinated by an interested adult. They will put things together on their own or with a committee of other interested adults. All activities are discussed at our monthly Pack Committee meetings. Info is given to the den leaders who disperse it to their dens. Announcements are made & fliers, sign-up sheets, are available at Pack meetings & sent to every family by e-mail and/or snail mail. "Do you have "parent meetings" and who is required to attend?" No parent meetings. We have monthly Pack Committee meetings. All Pack leaders - Cubmaster, Asst Cubmaster, Treasurer, Unit Commissioner, Charter Org Rep, den leaders, asst den leaders, advancement person, etc, try to attend. Parents, & any other interested persons, are all welcome. The dates & times of our meetings are on our yearly Pack calendar. "What kinds of activities/events does your pack offer on a yearly basis?" Popcorn Sale - This is really a big thing for us as it pays for our entire program! We do 2-3 booth sales each weekend from the end of Sept thru the middle of Nov. Parade - Local celebration the first Sunday in Oct. Haunted House Foodraiser - We turn our Parish/School Hall into a haunted house the weekend of Halloween. Each den plans & puts together their own section. Much of the planning goes on in the den meetings. Thanksgiving Mass - Scouts (GSUSA & BSA) all attend in uniform, & bring, & help collect, contributions for the Food Pantry. The scouts all march in ahead of the priest (GS on left, CS & BS on right) & sit in the front of the church. Tree Decorating - The parish school's Girl Scout Troops & our Cub Pack, make ornaments & decorate the trees & bushes around our church the first Sat in Dec. Cookies, Cocoa & Carols are held in the Parish/School hall after the decorating. The responsibility for cocoa & cookies alternate between the CS & GS each year. Ornaments are made in den meetings. Christmas Pack meeting Pot Luck Dinner - Everyone brings a dish and/or a dessert. Santa makes an appearance & hands out Pinewood Derby cars to the Scouts & candy canes to everyone. Popcorn Pie Toss - Held at the end of the Christmas Pot Luck. The top 10 popcorn sellers each get to toss a foam plate filled with whipped topping at the Pack Leader of their choice. Pinewood Derby - January at our Pack Meeting. We have Boy Scout Den Chiefs as Pit Crew & Troop Scouters as line judges. District Cub Winter Fun Day - This year, due to sub-zero temps, only 2 very hardy families attended! Boy Scout Sunday - CS Pack & BS Troop attend in uniform. They march in ahead of the priest with American, Pack & Troop flags. Scouts, both adult & youth participate in all parts of the mass. Religious medals are blessed & presented (the Parvoli Dei banners are used to decorate the altar). The BS Troop hosts a continental breakfast in the Parish/School Hall after mass. Blue & Gold Dinner - Catered with families providing desserts. We try to shoot for completion of rank awards by this date. Sometimes we will have Webelos crossover to BS Troop(s). This year they are crossing at the March Pack meeting. Paid entertainment. This year we had a GREAT ventriloquist! Pro Hockey game - We take a bus to a Chicago Wolves game every March. Showtime - March Pack meeting. Every den puts on songs, skits, or whatever. Cardboard Boxcar Derby - April Pack meeting. Each den builds a vehicle out of cardboard boxes. The type of vehicle depends on the theme. Last year we did a construction theme. This year the BSA theme for April is food & for May is bugs. Maybe we will go with bugs. We will decide at this month's Committee meeting. The vehicle is built at den meetings. The race is a relay race with stations to match the theme. Graduation - May Pack meeting. We have a big ceremony to celebrate the boys moving to their new levels. AAA Baseball game - In June or July Pack Family Camp - June or July Council Summer and/or Day Camp Pack Picnic / Rocket Shoot - In August. Pack provides burgers, dogs, & bug juice. Also rockets for the boys who made their popcorn goal. Families provide sides, desserts and brings their own rockets if they wish. These are the major things we do every year. We have other misc outings during the year whenever we find out about them or can squeeze them in. For instance - kite fly, bike hike, fishing derby, reenactment (Civil/Revolutionary War, Fur Trader Rendezvous), Reptile Fest, movie night, Pumpkin Maze, Model Show, Indian Pow Wow, etc. "What has made your pack a great success?" GREAT LEADERS!! Who do a good job of following the BSA program & making it FUN for their boys. GREAT FAMILIES!! Who work with their boys & "help the Pack go"!

Every state has its own laws regarding reporting child abuse. As part of the OLC Youth Protection Training, in the section on recognizing & reporting abuse, you will be required to download a copy of child abuse reporting requirements from your council (drop down list of councils). This will include contact info for your council & your state Dept of Children & Family Services. It will also include an overview of any reporting laws in your state.

Yup, you have it! Unless, you can show where, in the Scout Oath & Law, it states that a Scout must attend "campouts, summer camp, eagle project and most troop meetings". The best place to talk to the Scout about "Scout Spirit", & to find out how he feels he is doing in making the Oath & Law a part of his life, is at a SM conference. Getting to know the Scout, talking to him about his life, his scouting & his plans for both is part of what a SM conference is all about. A Scout that does not attend "campouts, summer camp, eagle project and most troop meetings" has other problems. He is not getting what he should/could out of the program. These things can also be addressed at a SM conference by discovering the reasons behind his non-attendance & helping him work things out.

1) If the Troop is run correctly, it will be the boy who does his own work at his own pace. Maybe, by the time he earns his Eagle (whenever that is) he will have decided that there is something to stay in the program for. Meanwhile the SM could have a nice conference with the parents. 2) He may say his heart is not in scouting & he is only doing it for his parents, but he's there & learning so I would not knock it. You say he has "supposedly" changed his mind & is now enthusiastic about earning Eagle. That's GREAT! Take it at face value & stop with the negative attitude. "Scout Spirit" is defined by the BSA as living the Scout Oath & Law in your everyday life (not eagerly/actively striving for Eagle). BSA also states that how well the Scout does this is something only the Scout can judge for himself. Given this, how can you possibly say he "has failed to show "scout spirit" in any form". You are not him & do not know. In both scenarios the boy has the support of his parents. Even if that support is excessive, it is definitely more than some boys have. According to BSA surveys, boys who have supportive parents, stay in the program longer. As long as the boy is in the program there is the chance he is getting something out of it, & that is a good thing.

1) Once the Tour Permit is issued, it's issued. Period. Hopefully your council is taking the time to do their end of the BSA paperwork correctly & check the training records of the volunteers listed on the permit application. If not, then that is their fault, not the units. 2) Cub Scout Specific training (like New Leader Essentials) has no expiration date. Once you take the specific training for your level, & receive your "Trained" strip, you are considered trained for that level.

The Tiger program is different from that of Wolf & Bear, and the Webelos program is completely different from any of the other Cub Scout programs. In Webelos the parents are no longer able to sign off on all of their son's work. There are some limited exceptions, but for 99% of Webelos activities, it is the Webelos DEN LEADER who is responsible for approving their activities. As our former owl friend states, most of the Webelos Activity Pin requirements should be done at den meetings/outings. However, if the Webelos leader sends homework home with the boys & they are not completing it then that is their choice. What she can do is give them clear deadlines & remind them when stuff is due. She can give them time during den meetings to present what they have done to the rest of the den so that she can sign off on it. She can provide the boys with multiple opportunities to finish activities with the den. In the end, if they do not finish the work, they do not receive the Activity Pin. Usually, when the Pack meeting comes around & they do not receive the award, & others do, they will get the message. A good thing the den leader can do is to send home den newsletters (or e-mails) to the parents, personalized for each Webelos with any homework that is still needed. Good communication with both the Webelos & his family will help a LOT.

A Unit Commissioner is appointed by the District Commissioner, and approved by the council executive board. Not the DE. You should do now, what you should have done as soon as you heard about this - contact your District Commissioner and find out exactly what is going on. BTW - I agree with scoutldr, all you have so far is gossip, you have never been OFFICIALY told who your UC is (or even that you now HAVE one), why on earth would you invite someone who you obviously, & publicly, dislike to your Beading?

OK, "Mommy" lobbied for pre-packaged burgers & raw potatoes - "Daddy" lobbied for pre-packaged fries & raw meat. Your measuring, shaping, etc learning experience happened with the potatoes instead of the burgers. Oh well. Are you upset that "Mommy's" suggestions won out over "Daddy's"? True, once the food was purchased, changes should not have been made. However, neither of you let the boy's do it "their way".

Everyone here will have an opinion (probably different ). However, our opinion does not count. To get the real info, contact whoever it is in your council who approves the Unit Money-Earning Permits. Run the specifics past them & get their input on if it is a viable project or not. We may think it is a bang-up idea, but it does not matter if your council will not approve the application.

We schedule 1 or 2 events per month. Not every family can make every event, but it keeps them thinking Cub Scouts all summer! How about - Bike Hike Rocket Shoot Minor League Baseball Game (some will have overnights on the field) Pack Family Overnighter Belt Loop Day Bowling Local Festivals Mini-Golf More local ideas - Winchester Speedway Kids Nights Soap Box Derby Potato Chip Factory Tour

Ask the Webelos Den Leaders. They might be working on something they could use your help with. They would also know what their boys interests are. Demo a rope bridge. Patrol cooking. Get the Webelos involved. Use the resources available at your camping site. Remember to use all Youth Protection & Guide to Safe Scouting rules for CUB SCOUTS.

SR751Fox, I am confused. If your Quality District, in your Quality Council does not expect it's Unit Commissioners to actually visit the units they serve, then what DO they expect them to do? How do they know what their units are doing, or if they are in need of help or counseling. How do they serve their units? How do they manage to fill out their UC Worksheets for their units? What is the point of their attending the Commissioners meeting if they have not visited their units that month? What would they report on? BTW - I am also in a Quality Unit, a Quality District & a Quality Council.

Why are you saving the biggest part of the festivities for the Open Race? Granted there are only 8, but why not let the Scouts in your Pack have more of a race. If you used a Partial Perfect-N race generator, instead of only racing 2X, your boys could race 6X each. That's 3X MORE FUN! If you placed a point value (3-2-1) on 1st, 2nd & 3rd place finishes, after 16 heats you add up each boys score, & the top 3 scorers are your winners. No boy gets eliminated, boys stay involved in the race, no one is real sure who the top 3 are until the end results and the SCOUTS get to have more FUN. Heck, even if you shortened their fun to only one round, the Scouts would still be racing 3X each instead of maybe 2X. I realize it's fun for the families & friends too, & can be used as a great recruiting tool, but, IMO, the race should be first & foremost for the Scouts. The family members & friends will still be happy even if time constraints only allow them to race one time. Edited to add this Web site - http://members.aol.com/standcmr/ppngen.html (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

I was just looking at your Pack web site, & I noticed something that might have a bearing on your problem. You mention your town, your county, your area schools, the school you meet at, your BSA council & your BSA District. However, nowhere in the whole web site do you even mention who your Charter Organization is. You say your Pack meetings are held at your local public school, but do not mention where your Dens meet. It seems to me your Pack has little or nothing to do with the Catholic Parish that owns it. This could be a BIG part of the problem. This is supposed to be a PARTNERSHIP between the church & your Pack, with your Pack being the Parish's youth outreach group. If the only time you have contact with them is when you want applications approved & the charter renewed, that is a pretty poor partnership. It seems that your Pastor has realized that there should be more to this partnership than there has been in prior years. Good for him. However, maybe he needs some guideance in how to help it work. You stated that you & your DE met with the Pastor at the beginning of October. What was discussed & how did that go? Personally, to me, with the very limited info you have given us, it sounds like the Church & it's school would benefit from a more intimate BSA relationship. It also sounds like your town could support a second Pack which would draw from the public schools. This could ultimately be a win-win situation giving the boys in your area more choices. I would think your DE would jump at this chance to expand the number of units in your area.

To answer your questions - 1) No - But a PTO can 2) Have you ever looked at the BSA National site? Some info from there - http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-507.html http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-377.html http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/thepack/chorg.html http://www.scouting.org/relationships/04-113/index.html http://www.scouting.org/relationships/04-180/cathol.pdf The CO has the final say on all of it's units members, including it's leaders. You might not like it, but your CO is well within it's rights in everything it is doing. 3) Also from the BSA National site - http://www.scouting.org/relationships/34196/index.html Since your Pack's members are of a mixed religious background, & your CO now wants only it's own youth as members, forming a new Pack seems to be your best bet. However, as you were told in your last thread, your Charter Organization owns your Cub Scout Pack, including all equipment, funds & the Pack number. You will be starting from scratch with your new Charter Organization.

Unless your Troop holds it's own NFP status & has it's own tax id number, any "donations" made payable to your Troop will NOT be tax deductable. If your CO is a Not For Profit the checks could be made payable to them. That would make it a deductable donation. I sure hope you make it plain to these corporations or they might have a nasty suprise if they have an IRS audit.

Welcome Bugs ! Someplace to go for info - http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ca BSA Online Learning Center. The FIRST training you should take ASAP is the complete Cub Scout Fast Start for all levels. Then Youth Protection. - http://olc.scouting.org/ Your Council's Web site - http://www.padutchbsa.org/ Your council's Training Calendar - http://www.padutchbsa.org/council%20training%20schedule01282007.xls Courses you need to take are - New Leader Essentials Cub Scout Leader Specific for Committee Chair If your Pack wants to go on Pack family campouts, someone needs to take BALOO training. Since many of your Pack's leaders are new, contact your District Training Chair to see if the training can be brought to your Pack so that everyone can get trained at the dame time. Hope this helps!(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

Please be mindful of what you are using these images for, BSA is cracking down on unlicensed use of it's trademarks. "No council, unit, or third party may use BSA proprietary marks for any commercial purposes (e.g., manufacturing, creating, or selling items bearing BSA proprietary marks or manufacturing or otherwise creating items that could potentially be for resale), nor may any organization other than the BSA National Council authorize such rights, either actual or implied, to any third party." BSA has some high-res graphics here - http://www.scouting.org/identity/contents/12.html

Table top? They certainly look like fun, but so does baseball & you would not wear spikes to an indoor event. Whenever one of our Cubs rolls past me I will simply stop them & tell them to walk, NOT roll, or to take it outside.

"She cooks for them, cleans up after them, starts their fires, etc because she doesn't want the younger boys (6th graders) to fail." Too late, once she starts doing their jobs for them they have already failed. What are the rest of the adults on the camping trips doing while the CC is doing all of the boys work for them? Is she doing all of the work for the other adults as well? You would think one of them could quietly approach her & tell her to stop & let the boys alone. Also, why is the SPL complaining to you instead of talking to his grandmother? I would think it would be easier for him to talk to her than to his SM. Or, if he is uncomfortable talking to his grandmother, perhaps he could talk to his parents & have them talk to her. If the SPL is unwilling to talk to his own family, & the other adults are content to let her do everything, then 1 or both of the other boys should request a SM conference & talk to him about the problem - ASAP.