ScoutNut

"has made a fundraiser out of teaching scout skills. So, older scouts charge money to teach scouts in other troops skills like going on hikes or canoeing." This is not a merit badge counselor, certified canoe instructor, or council trainer, teaching these things. It sounds like these are "older" boys (how old? - what is their expertise?) charging for teaching "younger" boys (how young?) things that should be being taught by their own Troop as part of their Troop program. I think we need more info here.

I think Hunt's suggestion might actually work the best. Bring the boy & his mom together & let them know (just as a casual FYI kind of thing) that he can not count sleeping inside the church toward ANY of the camping related requirements. If they question this (and I am sure they will!), tell them that it is because it was not a part of the BOYS camping plan & the rest of his patrol was sleeping in tents outside. Reassure them that if the BOYS had planned the camping as a lock-in in the church that would be a different story. Maybe this will get the message across.

Yes, GS Troops are owned by the council, but without someone to step up as leader the Troop would fold. It would be nice if the Neighborhood Chair would work with the council rep to talk two of the parents into taking over, unfortunately it does not always work that way. However, in your case, you would think she would have a vested interest having a daughter in the Troop. What has me confused is the audit. With the upcoming mergers, I can see councils auditing their books in preparation. What is confusing me is why they would audit the books of every Troop & Group in the council. That would be an ENORMOUS, & messy job. Every Troop & Group is required to submit a financial report at the end of each year, complete with copies of receipts. Is this audit in lieu of/in addition to, this year's financial report? Why the parent meeting along with the audit, and why are the leaders so upset? True, the audit is strange & inconvenient, but they should have all of their receipts & stuff from the year & since it is May, they should even have the end of year financial report ready.

Soldier slides - Cool! Go for it!

BSA does not recommend COPE courses for Webelos Scouts.

I think I would go with Beavah's scenario of reorganizing for the new year. A positive attitude is always better than a combative one. I don't think that you should be the one to take over the den, even temporarily. Being CC is a big job & you really should not split your time. By now you know the parents in the den. You know which ones like working with the boys & which ones are good at it. Talk to your CM & COR & come up with a list of 4 who you think would do a good job. Then starting with your top pick, go down the list & PERSONALLY & PRIVATELY, ask each one if they would agree to register as a Den Leader, until you have your 2 new Leaders. Then get them to take all of the online training & sign them up for New Leaders Essentials & Cub Scout Specific ASAP.

"For the record, the scout did not show any sign of remorse, regret, contrition or repentance. His attitude was "hey, stuff happens." In fact, he was proud of the fact that he was living the baby's mother with and "supporting my child" (as much as you can with a part-time minimum wage). He was an "avowed" fornicator, and proud of it." "Avowed Fornicator" - WOW! What a way to hit a young man over the head with your religious issues! Is it the "living in sin", "fornicating", or having a child that you object to? Would you feel better about the whole thing if they gotten an abortion or had used protection so that they never had a child and so were not living together at that time? Is the "fornicating" all right as long as there is no baby as a result that your taxes have to help pay for? Not every one, but certainly LOTS of teen boys have sex. Did you try to find out if any of the other boys in that Troop had "fornicated" yet? Or was it just the one one with the baby that you wanted kicked out & branded with an "F"? I would bet that more than just that 1 boy in that Troop had already had sex of some sort. I must say, if it had been my son, I would have been deeply upset that he acted so foolishly. However, if he stepped up to take responsibility for both the girl & his child, I would have been VERY, VERY PROUD of him! "But we all know that such marriages are usually doomed to failure, and we all pay dearly for that lack of judgement" Not necessarily. Yes, they both would face a long, hard, uphill battle, but with some love, help & counseling at least they would all have a fighting chance. Kids do stupid things. I would hazard a guess that EVERY SINGLE person on this forum has, at one time or another, done something REALLY stupid, that had the potential to end badly. Personally, I do not see loving and raising a brand new life as ending badly. I will now retire from my soapbox!

The type of government a GS Troop uses is (or should be) decided by the girls. My girls used the "Town Meeting" type most often. We never really had enough girls to split into decent patrols. They tried other approaches, but always came back to the "Town Meeting" as the one that worked best for them.

This should be interesting to see how your council works this out. If the girls are registering thru Learning for Life, and doing the Learning for Life program are there going to be new materials just for them? The only program materials on the site were for Cub Scouts. BTW, although LFL is a subsideary of BSA, the two programs are NOT the same and registration in LFL is NOT the same as registration in BSA.

WOW! Popcorn candy sales, car washes, auctions, and now a tag (rummage?) sale! That's a awful lot of fundraising. Then you add on top of that fundraising for school & other activities. Your families must be pretty burned out with fundraising. How do you find the time to do the fun stuff you are fundraising for?

There is nothing on the Soccer & Scouting site to even suggest that it would include girls. As a matter of fact the recruitment flyers specifically state - "All boys ages 7 to 10 who want to learn to play soccer and at the same time be Cub Scouts are eligible to join."

Welcome Homeschoolmama ! "I think girls should be in the Cub/Boy Scouts program. I also think that boys should be allowed in the Girl Scouts program." I can not see the point of both programs going completely co-ed while still staying separate. If ever, & I can't see it happening in the near future, they both decided to go co-ed, joining into one program would make the most sense. "Each program offers a unique curriculum for our youth to follow." This is because each program was created to be a unique, gender specific youth program. BSA was created specifically for boys, while GSUSA was created specifically for girls. "My thoughts are, and Im sure some of you might agree, that perhaps we should modernize both corporations. If they modernized maybe neither gender would want to join the opposite." While I have heard of girls who want to join BSA, I can not think of any instances where a boy has wanted to join GSUSA. BSA is continually updating it's programs. Currently, GSUSA is in the process of completely re-vamping it's entire program structure. The purposes of BSA & GSUSA that you quoted are both a bit dated. The one for GSUSA more so. Today you will not see any references to "purity" & "obedience". Currently - BSA Mission Statement The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Girl Scout Mission Girl Scouting builds girls of courage, confidence, and character, who make the world a better place. Basically both programs aim to be the best character & leadership development program for their targeted youth.

No tents in this area either. Have your SON talk to his Troop OA rep or contact his local Lodge Advisor and ask what he needs to bring. When my son did his, it rained during the night so they picked up and moved under the rifle range shelter. It probably would have worked out better if they had thought to sweep aside the spent casing that were left there!

I also have no problem with sales incentives, attendance/performance awards, door prizes, or the such. I think mtm25653's newsletter game sounds like fun. None of these are gambling, raffle's are. Where BSA draws the line is when you are asking folks to pay money & all they get for their money is a ticket & a chance that they might win something else. Money earning activities should be "free from any association with gambling". All sales must "stand on their own merit". People must get their money's worth & receive something of value for their payment. A chance that maybe, possibly, if the stars are aligned in your favor, you might end up with something for your money does not cut it.

Hey, I've been bucking that same wind for many years now! Our Cubmaster, although a wonderful fellow, with a VERY dry sense of humor, he is not exactly the poster boy for Sparklers, if you know what I mean. So, I finally decided why wait for others to do something & donned the hat of Pack Sparkler Nut (oops!), I mean Chair, Sparkler Chair! I will hit the various song & Pow Wow sites before our Pack meetings & find a few songs, an audience participation, & a few run-ons that match our theme. Then when there is a pause in the proceedings I will step up & fill in with a Sparkler. For the songs I will have written copies that are handed to everyone as they walk in. Pick songs that have a recognizable tune that is easy to learn. I had a great spaceship song for our April, Space themed, cardboard box relay race, Pack meeting that went to the tune of "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean". Action songs are always a hit. The monkey version of "If You're Happy & You Know it", with the actions being scratch your side, jump up & down, say ooh-ooh, do all 3, was well received by all. Our boys also like "The Grand Old Duke of York", especially if their parents are having a hard time with the up & down parts. Then there is the classic "I've Got That Cub Scout Feeling". BTW, inform your CC that HE does not have to sing. He can simply stand there looking like a grump while everyone else has fun! Don't worry, some folks just think they have to be very staid & businesslike & adult, & have a REAL hard time reaching their inner 7 year old! They don't get the idea that it really is OK to be silly, & have fun, in front of all of the boys & their families.

Raffle? As in sell tickets for a chance to get a compass? That is not allowed by BSA. A door prize, where everyone present puts their name in a popcorn can, with no charge to any scout, and 5 names are pulled to receive the compasses - That is fine.

I would talk to your pastor (IH of CO). Maybe there might be some former Scouts in other church organizations who would be willing to help the Pack. Your Pack also needs to have in place a GOOD summer program & recruit Tigers in May. Most important, IMO, as CC for the Pack, you need to make a commitment to the Pack. It does not say good things about your Pack program to have it's CC sending his kids to the other Pack in town. People DO notice these things.

If you don't think the den leaders would buy into this as a den activity, consider using it as a gathering activity for a Pack meeting. We did the film canister first aid slides this way. Find something that fits the theme of your Pack meeting & have adults man the hot glue gun or epoxy. Fun foam works well for slides also. BTW - If you end up doing all of the slides yourself, make the slide a simple one (ie-small wood disc from craft shop w/Pack # & boy initials written with perm sharpie, or a sml BSA sticker, & hot glue a pipe cleaner loop to back). A simple slide should not take all that long to make. Give yourself a long lead time, involve other family members, & do a few each night. I have a full time job, work with my Tigers, wear various other Pack & District hats, & still find the time to do 35-45 slides each May.

Thanks CNYScouter, all this talk about Venturing advancement & ranks had my head spinning! I thought maybe I nodded off and missed a Venturing program change! diannasav, here are some sites that might help - This is BSA National's Venturing site. http://www.scouting.org/venturing/home.html BSA's Online Training Center - Take Venturing Fast Start, Venturing Youth Protection (it would not hurt to take regular YP also), & Venturing Crew Orientation. http://olc.scouting.org/ Beavah, I advocated contacting the District Advancement Chair, for 2 reasons, neither of which had anything to do with being a "little league parent". First of all, if diannasav has any questions on advancement (which he obviously does) the person to get the answers from would be the District Advancement Chair. Second, if someone has a question about the practices of a merit badge counselor, the District Advancement Chair is also the person to ask. No one is saying that the boys, their parents, or their leaders should be overruling anyone or forcing their perspective on anyone. I realize we are all founts of endless wisdom, but we don't really know what is going on, how this Venturing Crew is set up, or what the problems really are. The best place to get good answers is from BSA literature & the best place to ask questions is the appropriate District person. Also, I firmly believe that there are bad merit badge counselors out there because leaders don't want to "be goin' off" to the District folks. Well, as inconvenient as it is, the District Advancement Chairs are not psychic. Without input from their District members they have no way of knowing if a MB Counselor is adding or changing requirements, or if he is doing a good job or not. If we, as leaders, know of a MB Counselor who is not not doing their job we have a responsibility to do more than simply not recommending them as counselors to our boys. We have a responsibility to give our District Advancement Chair a heads up and have them look into it so that some other boy does not get shortchanged. As for your Case #5, (sorry, but YOU did bring it into the discussion), I do not see it as the SM having the discretion to accept another SM's sign off on a rank requirement or not. It has been signed off. However, a good Troop will never let old skills sit idle. In order to remember & perfect our skills they must be used - often. In your scenario of CPR skills, all of the scouts who have had CPR signed off in their books should be the ones teaching it to the younger ones, running the CPR station at a Troop First Aid skills meeting, & helping Webelos earn their activity pin. Telling a boy you are not accepting anything you did not personally sign off is one way, making sure all of the boys are using, & perfecting, all of the skills they have learned is a much better way.

The ONLY person who has any say in what is accepted for completion of a merit badge is the MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR. Not the SM, not the Crew Adviser, not the parents. If the counselor for a particular merit badge signs off on a requirement, it is completed. It does not matter where it was done, who was with the scout when it was done, or what uniform he was wearing when the requirement was done. The ONLY thing that counts is if the MB counselor accepts the work. If it is the SM who is the MB counselor, then you should have a talk with your District Advancement Chair.

Your Scout Shop sells slide kits. They have numerous leather and wood carving kits that need only have a ring of some sort hot glued to the back. There is not to much in the way of ready made slides other than the official ones. I vote on the side of homemade slides. I make slides for all of the boys for their May graduation. Usually I will use tree limb slices and burn in something. I have done the level picture (Wolf, Bear, W, arrow of light), paw prints, initials, etc. I have also used "woodies" from the local craft store & colored them with sharpies. Little wood miniatures used for doll houses work well at times as will any small object. Magnets can be fun too, just take off the magnet & glue on a loop. You could have each den create their own den slide. If you do a search on necker slides or woggles you should find a lot of ideas. Also check out sites for Girl Scout SWAPS. These are meant to be pins, but change the pin back for a loop & you have a slide! Have FUN!

I would be very careful about building on city owned land. Your current building is a grandfathered relic from the 50's. The political climate is a lot different now. The question would be the ownership of the building. Would it be owned by the Troop, your Charter Org (why isn't your CO providing a meeting place?), or the city. What about the land it sits on? Who would be responsible for taxes & utilities? Personally, if I was on the park board, I would have a problem with donating a chunk of city park land, that I was developing for use by all of the citizens in the community, to one small private group for their exclusive use. A better solution might be for the city to create a public nature center with a large meeting room that the city would allow to be used for meetings by all community groups, including yours.

Why do people returning to Scouts as a volunteer only think about working with a Boy Scout Troop? Consider volunteering with a Cub Scout Pack. Many are struggling to survive because of lack of volunteers. Heck, one Pack was so desperate for a Cubmaster it put an ad in the newspaper! Where ever you end up, thank you & welcome!

Was this sleeping arrangement discussed during the camping equipment prep, or did they just arrive on the trip and announce it then? Was the younger, PL son, a new scout? Did you talk to this dad at all to find out why he felt he needed to have everyone bunk together in the family tent? While sleeping with your dad might keep the boys from bonding somewhat, it should not interfere with any patrol duties. The PL & SPL should both be able to do their jobs. And, as long as all that the dad did for his boys was sleep in the same tent, there should have been no impact on patrol activities. The boys could have set up the tent themselves, cooked, eaten & done everything else with their patrols. Did this happen? If you see this as a problem in the Troop you should address this at the next Committee meeting. On the Cubs coming on Troop campouts, are they there as Cubs or as sibs? Either way, it is not a good idea, but for different reasons. If they are there as Cub Scouts, then the only Cub Scouts that are allowed to camp with a Troop are Webelos. Even then, all youth protection & G2SS rules for CUB Scouts need to be followed & an age appropriate program for Webelos Cub Scouts needs to be provided. IF they are there as sibs, then unless the parent & sib(s) camp in a different area, they are detracting from the Boy Scouts program. Here is what the G2SS says about tag-alongs : "If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers." This is another issue that should be brought up at your next Committee meeting.

First of all, my question is - Whose tents are these? Does the Troop have their own tents, or are the members supposed to supply their own? We get only a very small portion of the picture and are then required to post a relevant answer. This is not going to happen! If a family tent was all that was available, then of course this is fine! If the boys are using Troop tents &/or if this was a special thing for only this family, then I would have a talk with the families & explain the workings of a troop. The whole SPL thing could be avoided if you had a temporary replacement already designated. If this boy just took over, on his own, that is not correct. However, it seems to me that the identity of the replacement SPL is not as much of an issue as where, and with who, that boy slept during the campout.