ScoutNut

From BSA's "Merit Badge Counselor Instructors Guide", which can be found online at the BSA National site - http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-125/index.html "A merit badge counselor must always ensure that a Scout has a "buddy" present at all instruction sessions. Working on merit badges is especially enjoyable when Scouts work together, and the BSA encourages this by making the buddy system a part of the merit badge program. Together the two meet with merit badge counselors, plan projects, and keep their enthusiasm high. The Scout's buddy could be another Scout, a parent or guardian, brother or sister, relative, or friend. The Scout should bring a buddy to all his appointments with his counselor." This does not mean either parents or as a Troop only. This means that 2 Scouts can get together and go to the Merit Badge Expert of their choice (with the approval of their SM).

I think part of the problem comes in with the fact that the SM is one of the Eagle references. He is to be "interviewed" by the EBOR and he is assuming that the interview will be about his reference. From BSA's "12 Steps from Life to Eagle" in the Eagle Project Workbook - "Reference checks that are forwarded with the application are confidential, and their contents are not to be disclosed to any person who is not a member of the board of review." Donomiser is concerned that the confidentiality will be broken with the ASM there. Perhaps, if the interview is about the reference, Donomiser could be interviewed at this point - "The board of review members should convene at least 30 minutes before the candidate appears in order to review the application, reference checks, and leadership service project report." A few things are curious. Since when does a Scout need to have a "representative" for himself at any BOR, much less an EBOR? What is the purpose? I can find nothing allowing this, however I do not have "Advancement Policies" handy at the moment. What is with the UC? Is he a member of the EBOR, or is he another visitor? It is permissible for a UC to be a member of an EBOR as long as the UC is not related to the Eagle Candidate. The only reference I could find on someone viewing an EBOR is below. Also from BSA's "12 Steps from Life to Eagle" in the Eagle Project Workbook - "The candidates unit leader introduces him to the members of the board of review. The unit leader may remain in the room, but does not participate in the board of review. The unit leader may be called on to clarify a point in question." Now, if the ASM who is the Eagle Candidate's "representative" is to be acting in the SM's stead, I find nothing wrong with that. However any and all interviews about the Candidates references should happen in private, before the EBOR convenes, NOT during the EBOR with others in attendance. I must say, with all of the concern Donomiser is showing about anyone hearing what he has to say about this Scout, it sounds like the reference he gave was not a positive one.

LOL! I have been thinking the same thing!

"The last word on possession of units land properties , vehicles, boats, airplanes and etc. of the units that have folded." Since BSA started the Charter Organization system (which goes back even further than your "glorious past"), the "last word" is that of the CHARTER ORGANIZATION. It is only when the Charter Organization decides that it does NOT WANT to keep the stuff or to start up a new unit, that the old units equipment reverts to council.

"National council fearing that OA chapters would become to powerful, and would usurp the Boy Scout philosophy" This is a rather unlikely scenario. For one thing an OA Chapter is a division within a local OA Lodge. They are usually used when the council area is to large for just a Lodge to be effective. The OA Lodge is chartered by BSA National. It is a self-supporting, integral element of their Council's outdoor program. As such it supports the council, it's camps and it's programs. OA has no need to "usurp the Boy Scout philosophy" OA has it's own philosophy. The purpose of OA is - 1) To recognize those Scout campers who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives 2) To develop and maintain camping traditions and spirit 3) To promote Scout camping 40 To crystallize the Scout habit of helpfulness into a life purpose of leadership in cheerful service to others Because it is self-supporting, there should be no problem with donations made to the local OA Lodge. The Lodge's funds are held in it's council's treasury and are overseen by their council. I am not sure why a Lodge would own a camp area separate from the council camps when one of the main purposes of OA is to support the council camps. I can see an OA Lodge receiving an outside donation and using it to provide a bus & camping gear to the council camps. That makes sense. Having your own camping program separate from that of council's does not. An OA Chapter or Lodge is NOT a Troop. The rules that govern a Troop do not apply to OA. While BSA does not own all Troop property, the Troop's Charter Org has first claim on that, it would own OA property.

In the example you stated - Must an injury report be filed with Council? - Not by the Scouts Unit Would the camp have generated an injury report? - Any time the camp medical officer is involved, a log is kept of the reason. Should any reports be given to the charter organization? - Not unless your CO specificaly requests them. Ask your CO their policy. Should the troop mainatin an injury report on this incident? - I would not think so, unless you feel that there was some form of neglegence involved that caused the injury and that there is a chance of a suit being filed.

You know the more I think about it, I really like Beagle Scout's idea of the camp incentive for sales of $500+. We have been talking about adding a car wash or some such with the proceeds going toward summer camp, but we never seem to get it going. With including it as a popcorn incentive you have a win-win situation. You don't have to load another fundraiser on families who are already fund raised out, you are helping families pay for camp, and you are potentially increasing the amount of popcorn sold. For those who sell over $500 and don't camp (our CM & his family, sad but true) we can do a credit at the Scout Shop. I love it! First Committee meeting of the school year tonight with popcorn kickoff in 2 weeks. Yeah!

While training is not the panacea for all of a unit's ills, it does help you see what what kind of a program BSA actually expects you to be putting on. It can show you where your unit is off track and even give you ideas on how to get it back on track. In Packmom's case, training will show her what her responsibilities as a CC are and give her some ideas on how to accomplish them. It will show her how her Pack fits in with her District and Council, how her Pack should be running and what the responsibilities of the rest of her Pack's leadership are. Training will also introduce her to other volunteers in her area who she can call upon if she has questions. Packmom, I agree that some of your Pack's issues should be addressed at Committee Meetings. Part of every meeting should be a "roses & thorns" session on the previous Pack meeting, and ways to improve the upcoming one. However your issues with the CM should be addressed with him in person. The Cubmaster and the CC are part of a team and should be working together to create the best possible Cub Scout program they can for their boys. It they don't talk to each other this can not happen. Since your CM will only talk to the awards chair, have the awards chair invite the CM to an informal chat session. At your house would be good, but if you think that would not work then do it at a local coffee house or restaurant. Find out what his vision of the Pack is and share yours. Discuss his communication issues. Talk about what can be done to help him be a more effective Cubmaster. It might be as simple as finding some volunteers to be the Pack secretary, Pack ceremony/sparkler person, etc. You might even find out that he really does not like being CM, and being up in front of everyone, and would rather hold a different position in the Pack.

First, NEVER - EVER get up in front of a group of parents and ask for volunteers! You are lucky you got anyone at all to come forward. However, what you got was any warm body who would take the job. What you need is someone who is willing and able to do the job right and to get trained. It is very easy to ignore a general request to the masses. It is even easier to toss a letter in the trash and to assume the ever present "some other person" will step up. BSA has put out a couple of brochures that address this problem. The one for Cub Leadership is - http://www.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/13-500.pdf Basically it says to put together a list of the people you WANT for the job, and who you feel would do the right. Rank them from 1 to ?, with 1 being your first, top pick. Then go and visit these folks FACE TO FACE and ask them personally. Give them all of the requirements of the job. Let them know how long they will be required to do the job. Offer them mentoring and any help they need to accomplish the job. Start with your first choice. If, despite your best efforts to convince them, they decline, go on to your second choice and so on down your list until you get a yes. People find it harder to physically say no when they are asked face to face. It also makes it harder to decline if you can answer any questions, fears or concerns they might have right away. Having someone they can go to for help, questions, suggestions and mentoring as they are doing the job helps too. Do not just rely on your letter to the Webelos parents. Contact your former Webelos leader and get his/her take on the parents in the den. If there are siblings in other dens, talk to the den leaders. Make a list of the Webelos parents who you want to take the leader positions (you need 2!). Then get together with your top choice in a comfortable, relaxed environment, convince him/her, then go on from there. If all else fails and absolutely none of the parents will agree to do this for their boys for their last 6 months in the Pack, (not really likely if they are approached right), then follow thru on the threat you made in your letter. Send them all a list of contact info for the other 5th Webelos dens in the area and wish them well.

We set a goal (not a requirement) of $350 in sales per Scout. At the base profit of 30%, that is $105 to the Pack. Many boys just make the goal, some go WAY over, some go WAY under, some fall somewhere inbetween. It works out in the end.

"how big is your Pack" - 40 currently (pre-Tigers) "Is there a penalty or opt out fee for those who decide to not participate at all?" - Nope. We have discussed it a few times and each time we have decided that since we make enough to cover our budget there is no need to set a penalty. Usually we have everyone sell something, or participate in at least 1 booth sale. "I also love the idea of getting to throw a pie in someone's face (as long as it's not mine! LOL! J/K, I'd be game as a victim if it got people fired up to sell!)" - The boys really get a kick out of it. I usually try to hide so they forget about me and pick on the Cubmaster, but I am not always sucessful, LOL! I let my Tigers stand close so they don't miss. Gotta love that whipped cream in the ears! BTW - the tubs of Cool Whip type cream are much stiffer and not as watery as the squirt cans & a foam plate stands up better than paper! The rocket kit is a good incentive too. Families will watch their totals and put the family order on last to make the goal.

We fund our entire year thru popcorn. We have a goal of $350 in sales per scout. No penalty if they do not make goal. We do both Show & Sell and Take Order. All sales count toward goal. Scouts making goal receive a free Estes rocket kit to use at our summer rocket launch. The top 10 sellers all have the opportunity to throw a pie (whipped cream on paper plate) at the leader of their choice at our Dec Pack meeting.

Well, it sounds like BSA wanted to give the boys PLENTY of room to grow! I know that there were years, if my moose managed to wear a pair of school pants 2X, I was thrilled! I started purchasing them in Sept instead of ordering them in May because when I ordered them early, even ordering larger, there were times they had to be returned at the beginning of school, unworn! Remember, to get your money's worth out of the Cub uniform you HAVE to buy BIG. The shorts are supposed to come past the knee so mid-calf is not really all that much past where they should be hitting. Buy a Cub belt and cinch it tight. He might be rather baggy at the beginning of the year, but I bet he will be filling in his pants a lot better by January! This is BSA's biggest challenge in uniform pants for Cubs. This is also why many Packs do not require BSA uniform pants. Even unhemmed and all, unless a new pair is purchased yearly, the pants will never fit perfectly. I think it is just something we will have to accept if you want Cub uniform pants. BTW - The S2's are $24.99 not $30. Sounds like your shop is padding the price.

" I would welcome girls in a Cub pack (but not Webelos) if national said so." What would you do with them when they hit 4th grade? What makes them good Cub material in 3rd grade, and then not worth National's time once they hit 4th?

Welcome to the campfire Jambo. If I might, you sound rather bitter on the whole organization. Do you think that you might be having trouble recruiting because the boys and their families, who you are trying to recruit, sense this? The issue of recruiting in schools is a nationwide one, not just in your area. BSA wants equal access, just like any other youth group (and YES we ARE a Youth Group). To be picky and get around that, many school districts are restricting, or eliminating, access by ALL youth groups. This does nothing but hurt all of the youth in that school district, but their point has been made. Instead of complaining, or blaming BSA National, what most of us "in the trenches" are doing is finding alternate methods of reaching our target youth. Yes, it is harder, and requires more work and creative thinking, but to us "in the trenches" it is worth the extra effort. Scouting is NOT going to die out any time soon. At least not in my Pack, Troop, District and Council. And not if I have anything to say about it!!

From BSA National Web site - http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/parents/role.html http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/thepack/index.html http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/newleader.html

Does he do anything with his home Troop? What is his POR with his home Troop? How old is he & how long has he been doing this? Why doesn't he simply register with the other Troop?

"As I understand it, the money for ESLP wasn't raised by the scout, but rather by a big wig in one of the political parties." Is a LOT different than - "Should I ask someone from the CO (IH or CO Treasurer) to approach the committee and "remind" them that everything raised by the troop really belongs to the CO and get those funds where they belong?" How was the money "raised" by the political "big wig"? Did the BW go out stumping for donations from community, business, & political buddies? Was this a direct donation from the BW for a specific Eagle project? Was this a donation from the BW direct to the Troop for no specific purpose? If this was targeted by the BW for an Eagle project, has that project been finished? Is the $4,000 excess from that one project? You are right, $4,000 is a lot of money. If that money was donated to be used for one specific Eagle project, that is the ONLY thing that money should be used for. If the project is over, it is the responsibility of the Eagle Scout to get permission from the donor (the political BW) to use the leftover monies for other, upcoming Eagle projects. The Committee can not just assume that the $4,000 is available, so perhaps the permissions have already been obtained. With that much money I can understand why they wanted a separate account. As for the Secretary, if he gets "ticked off" I'm sure he can wipe out the Troop's account also. As can the Treasurer. Keeping all of the money in the Troop's account will not stop this. Having 2 signatures required is a good thing for all accounts.

If these funds were raised under the leadership of a Scout working for his Eagle project, then I have no problem with setting them aside into a separate account. This makes sure that when the Scout needs them, they are available, and not accidentally used for Summer Camp expenses. I do not see the need to use a separate bank.

No While not uniform police approved, pants in a similar color/style from a cheaper source are not really that noticeable. A jury rigged shirt is VERY noticable. Remember, you are setting the example for your Scouts. If you can not find a uniform shirt at a price you can afford then go with a Scout t-shirt. As has been mentioned, unless there is a pressing need for a uniform shirt RIGHT NOW, you have plenty of time to look. Keep checking back at the different sources as things change often.

"This way, we can also check council activity dates and find a date that doesn't conflict!" Does not sound like you did a very good job with that. Stuff happens. As long as the food drive was not impacted I do not see a problem.

More opportunities might present themselves the closer it gets to September. Keep checking ebay, the various lists, resale shops & don't forget about garage sales. Another option might be to contact your Pack's Charter Organization. Often a CO will help out with uniform costs if asked. I would try for just the shirt to start. It is easy to find pants close to the right color at stores.

Organizations in our area have had good luck with car washes. It is especially good when they are held near another activity that is already well attended. Our Girl Scouts held one behind the church on Sat evening and all day Sunday. This way folks could stop before or after mass.

I repeat, you need to talk to your COR & to the head of your CO. They and ONLY THEY, have to ability to remove you from your position in the Troop. There is NO SUCH THING as a "No Competence Board". If a disgruntled parent/leader puts one together it would carry no weight. However, if every adult volunteer in the Troop agrees with this person, & wants you to leave, you should take a good hard look at how you interact with the adults you work with. Maybe they have a legitimate complaint. In which case I would still recommend talking to the COR. Only then it would be to see what you can do to mend some bridges. Only you know for sure what the situation in your Troop is.

"Scout Nut, I will keep working on your suggestions. However, every time this has been tried, CC brings the hammer down and puts an end to any ideas that are not her own." None of the suggestions I gave you require the approval, or input, of the CC at all. Pack meetings are the responsibility of the Cubmaster NOT the CC. If it is "tradition" in your Pack to have the Den Leaders hand out the recognitions for their dens at the Pack meetings (as it is in ours) then you do not need anyone's approval to change how or what you do in your presentation. If it is the CM or the Advancement Chair (or even the CC) who hand out recognitions at Pack meetings, then all you need to do is ask them, quietly, by themselves, if they would mind if you did the presentations for your dens. If they say OK, you are good to go, if they say no, then you are stuck. However, you can still do your Den Cheer right before they sit back down. You don't need anyone's OK to do that. You don't need approval to fill in dead spots at the Pack meetings with sparklers & run-ons either. It would be nice if the CM would give you the OK, but it is not necessary. What is the CC & CM going to do? Drag you, your boys & their families out of the Pack meeting telling everyone in attendance NO FUN ALLOWED - we LIKE to be BORED! The CC does not have to have anything to do with sending out announcements to the Pack either. If you don't want to pay for postage, send emails. Send them to the Den Leaders at the very least. Make some copies (see if your office or a local office store will do the coping for free) and have them available at Pack meetings. No need to ask your CC or CM. The CC has nothing to say about a Webelos Den overnighter. If you are trained, plan the entire thing with your den, & have the den families pay the costs involved, the only thing you need from the Committee is a signature on a Tour Permit. If your CC will not sign Tour Permits for your den outings, don't ask the CC to sign. All that is required is for ANY member of the unit committee to sign. Does not have to be the CC. The position of Pack Trainer is still rather wishy washy. A lot depends on how your council implements it. Some councils have the Pack Trainer become a fully trained member of the District Training Team, with the ability to present NLE and CL Specific training to the Pack adults. In other councils the Pack Trainer is only expected to keep their Pack leaders apprised of training dates & encourage attendance, not to actually do the training. Don't wait on your Pack, talk to your Dist Training Chair. The bottom line is, after 3 years, how much does your family want to invest in this Pack, & is it worth it? Keep in mind that you need to, first and foremost, do what is right for your family.