ScoutNut

It is called Trademark Infringment and it is against the law, all over the world, even in Germany. BSA will not sue a unit. They will sue the company the unit purchased their products from. BSA specificaly says that units can use their trademarks - for their own use. If they start producing and/or selling BSA merchandise they then become a vendor or reseller and must have permission from BSA. If the BSA approved retailers in your area have increased their prices to much, don't use them. Go with a small vendor and don't use any BSA tradmarks - simple. Eventually the BSA approved retailers will realize they are driving business away and bring down their prices. I really don't see the point in bashing BSA for protecting their name the same as any national or international business does.

I agree with purcelce. The only one who has done any name calling, is TRUTH2, who while complainng that we are all hiding behind user names in a forum, doen not give any information on who he is or what connection he has to the case. Almost one month ago, Mr Rasmussen, who also did not give us any information on himself or the council involved, asked us for any and all input. That was the last time we ever heard from him, dspite our requests for more information. Posting on a forum, or simply dealing with people, you learn early on that there are 2 sides to every story, and that the folks involved on each side will put their side in the best possible light and the other side in the worst. We did NOT automatically go with the Council's side. We also did NOT automatically go with Mr. Rasmussen's side. We asked for information and when none was forthcoming we made comments based on what we DID know. There are still a few things that find strange. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission - You state - the EEOC who have approved her case and found her to have protection under the EEO laws. I am not a lawyer, but I fail to see how the EEO laws apply to this situation. Unless I missed something in the articles and posts, the Rasmussen's are not professional Scouters and are NOT EMPLOYED by the Council or BSA. They are VOLUNTEERS, not employees. OA - Since she had disabilities, why did she not do some research into what the Ordeal entailed? Why did she not talk to the Lodge's special needs person before the Ordeal? We, here on this forum, will never know what really went on. However, from the information that has finally come to light, it seems to me that, as usual, there is enough blame to go around on both sides.

If what you are looking for are job descriptions, check out the BSA National web site. http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/thepack/index.html There is a lot of information there that you will find useful. As a brand new Cubmaster, you should also sign up on the MyScouting section and take the online training. That, along with your council's training for Cubmaster Specific and New Leader Essentials, will help too.

Our Pack is going on 60 years old and we have never found the need for written Pack guidelines. We simply follow the BSA program and common sense. We do have some written guidelines for particular Pack events like the Popcorn sale, Pinewood Derby, & Camping Trips. That's about it though. I can't think of any issue that has come up in the 13 years I have been with the Pack where a set of written Pack guidelines would have been of any real help.

You do realize that creating a religious award for your faith has nothing to do with BSA don't you? Religious awards are NOT BSA awards. BSA simply approves some of them to be worn on the BSA uniform. If what you truly want is a religious award program, for your faith, to encourage the youth of that faith to understand and to grow in their faith, then the first thing that you should do is to create that program. At this point it should not matter how many BSA units your faith charters. What matters is to bring a religious program to the youth. If you want that program to, potentially, be approved by the BSA there are certain criteria BSA looks for in a religious program. You, and the national hierarchy of your faith, then need to look at those criteria and see if they are something that your faith agrees with and can include in it's religious program. Once the program is created, if it meets the BSA criteria, THEN you can start worrying about chartering BSA units. The national leaders of your faith might be able to help you with that. If you can get the required number of units chartered, great, than you can get the program's award approved by the BSA for wear on the BSA uniform. If you can't get the required number of units, your youth still have a quality religious program to help them grow in their faith. Any of your youth members who earn this award, and who are also members of BSA, can wear the universal religious square knot for earning the religious emblem award of their faith, they simply would not be able to wear the award itself on the BSA uniform. Still, not a bad deal. Your faith would get a way to reach it's youth and Scouts of your faith would be able to demonstrate their duty to their god.

Welcome and congratulations on finding a Pack with that much volunteer Scout Spirit! Talk to your Committee Chair about registering as a generic Committee Member. Registered or not, you can still take the training. You can take Youth Protection and Fast Start, along with others, online at MyScouting on the BSA National website - http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ms Then check your Council's training calendar on their website and sign up for New Leader Essentials and Cub Leader Specific (Committee). Does your Pack do any camping? You could take BALOO training thru your council. You can never have to many BALOO trained folks because without one the Pack can not camp. My Pack currently has 4 BALOO trained adults and I would like to get more trained. Tigers, with it's Shared Leadership, is a great place to get your feet wet and show what you, and your son, can do. Sign up to lead Tiger meetings and Go-See-It's, offer to help out the Tiger den leader in any and all ways. Does your den have an Assistant Leader? Perhaps you could move into that slot for their Wolf year. Stay involved and have fun with your son!

There are however birds, sticks, bugs, garbage, trees, leaves, cars, stores, people, clouds, boats, fish, weeds, street signs, etc, etc. If they were simply walking along non-stop at a semi-quick pace then 2 mph should be easy, breezy. Second grade boys do not hike that way, and IMO, you don't really want them to. You want them to explore the world around them and to have fun!

You are talking about 4 out of 13 families. That is just under 1/3 of the boys! Are they all from one den? This can be a big swing. If they are all registered in the same den, and all switch for the same meeting, you could be left with only 2 boys a one meeting and 11 at the other. What are your den leaders saying about this situation? It would seem to me to make for a very large headache for both leaders. They would not know from one meeting to the next how many or who to plan for. Unless of course the families let the leaders know in advance. Who would be responsible for keeping track of these "floating" families? The den theya re registered in or the den they visited? The leaders would have to get together every month to compare notes on who did what at whose den meetings. That would make ordering and presenting awards that much more complicated for them. What happens when kone of the families signs up to run a meeting with one den, but shows up at the other den meeting instead. If the leaders do not care, and are coordinating their dens together, as basically one big Tiger den with just 2 meeting dates, it will not matter much. If it is driving the Tiger leaders up a wall then something will have to be done about it. Talk to your leaders first. (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

Erin, do you know who your Unit Commissioner is? Give your council a call and find out if your Pack has one assigned to them. If they do, get his contact info, or the contact info for the District Commissioner if you have no UC. Give them a call and explain the situation in your Pack to them. Invite them out to one of your den/pack get togethers so that they can observe. Helping out Units in trouble is part of what they do. If you can't get this Pack moving toward a BSA program again, I would move on. BTW - Uniforms are not required to be a member of the BSA, but they are encouraged to bring a sense of belonging, community, to the boys. There are many ways to find low cost shirts. What does the Pack do about awards? If they have no uniform where do they display rank and elective awards? The "no corporal punishment" rule is a basic Youth Protection rule that is stressed in all BSA Youth Protection trainings. It sounds like your CM is not trained at all.

No, they are NOT completely parallel programs. While both Exploring and Venturing aim to help young people to mature and grow into responsible, caring adults, Exploring is strictly CAREER based. This is what the LFL-Exploring site has to say - "Exploring is a worksite-based program. It is part of Learning for Life's career education program for young men and women who are 14 (and have completed the eighth grade) through 20 years old." Venturing is focused on special interests or hobbies, not careers. The areas of focus for Venturing are high adventure, sports, arts, hobbies, religious life, and Sea Scouting. Before Venturing, Explorer Posts were a part of BSA. Because of the nature of the BSA, and due to the many lawsuits that were started, many Explorer Posts which were run by police, fire and other governmental agencies, would have had to close down. To stop that, BSA moved the career area of Explorers to LFL and renamed the high adventure, hobby area, Venturing. Lisa - Your Fire and Police departments should contact your local BSA council's Learning For Life Executive and talk to them about starting an Explorer Post.

"PER SKEPTIC - Scenario: A set of male female twins join a crew at 14, drawn by friends and the challenges offered. The boy discovers that he can still co-register in a local troop and become a first class scout, then work on Eagle, as well as the regular venture awards. His sister cannot. Now we have an unhappy sibling and probably unhappy parents." No reason for unhappy anyone if both the youth and their parents understand the various programs involved. If for whatever reason, these 2 brand new to Scouting youths, decide that the challenges of the Venturing program are not enough for them, they are free to join whatever other program they wish. Scouting or anything else. If the boy decides he wishes to also join a BSA Boy Scout Troop and work toward Eagle, that is his choice. You are correct that his sister can not join a Boy Scout Troop and earn Eagle. Likewise, if his sister decides she wishes to join a GSUSA Girl Scout Troop and work toward her Girl Scout Gold Award, that is her choice. And no, her brother would not be able to join the Girl Scout Troop and earn his Gold. However, in by opinion, for two brand new to Scouting kids, to each join 2 different Scouting programs, and strive to earn any and all awards available to them in each program, it is a bit of a stretch. That calls for a LOT of work. Add all of that Scouting work on top of all of their high school schoolwork and HS extra curricular stuff, and you have the makings for 2 burned out kids, doesn't matter how happy the parents are. In your scenario, those brand new to Scouting twins would be better served by sticking with Venturing and forgoing the Boy and Girl Scout Troops. There is plenty to learn and do in Venturing. If however, what you/they are mainly interested in is earning Eagle and the GS Gold Award, then skip Venturing altogether. Instead join a Venture Patrol in a Boy Scout Troop and an outdoor oriented Girl Scout Troop.

From the "Guide to Safe Scouting" under knives - "A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. AVOID LARGE SHEATH KNIVES. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish." The emphasis is mine. This is why only pocketknives, and not sheath knives, are mentioned in the G2SS's appendix, "Age-Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities". The BSA does not believe ANY level of Scouts should be using them.

You need to have a parent meeting to let them know that you are not a mindreader. If they don't sign off in the handbook you will have to assume that the requirement is not done and their son will not get recognized. Remind them, clearly, that it is their responsibility to work at home with their sons. If they don't, or simply never sign off in the book on things they have done, their boy will not be receiving his rank award. They have until the end of the school year, hopefully they will get the idea. If not, oh well. You can't give an award to a boy just because you feel sorry for him.

Don't know what a "verified" Eagle application is. If he used the application on the NESA site then it is an official BSA form and should have been fine. Didn't he get an Eagle packet with all forms and everything in it when he made Life? A BOR, especially an eagle BOR, is NOT supposed to have ANY ASM's on it at all. This sounds like a sham BOR that was in reality some kind of Inquisition or retaliation. Having your son contact both the SM and CC to see what is going on is a good idea. One of his first questions should be why the original application was signed by the CC, but the new one was not. What could possibly have happened in the space of a few days to warrant that.

Here is a free line of excel spreadsheets for helping leaders keep track of their Scouts - http://trax.boy-scouts.net/cubtrax.htm I use a different spreadsheet that I modified to suit what I wanted. I do not keep an individual sheet for each scout. I have all of the boys across the top and dates, den meetings (with what we did at the meeting) and various activities along the side. I keep track of attendance. That way it is easier to tell who gets credit for what and what a Scout might have missed. Since I have my records to show who was at meetings/activities, I know who completed what requirements there. For work completed at home, I collect their handbooks at the den meeting the week before the Pack meeting and go thru them at home. I will record anything they have had signed off at home and add anything they have done with Scouts that has not been entered in their book yet. I initial & date each requirement in their handbook as I record it on my spreadsheet. The handbooks get returned to the families at the Pack meeting. We have just started using ScoutManage, which is an online based Unit Management system. Once we can get everything up and running on it, the parents will be able to sign off online too. That will hopefully eliminate some of the running after handbooks (and award forms from the den leaders!). Even with ScoutManage, I still use my spreadsheets. They help me to organize things, and see at a glance what has been done and where everyone is at, when I am in a meeting and not at a computer. The spreadsheets also make it easier to enter everything in ScoutManage. This is what works for me. Ultimately, you will have to do some trial and error to see what works best for you.

How about lion dancers, oriental puppeteers or story tellers?

My Tigers meet every Sat at 9 AM and I do not generally provide a snack. Every so often one of my Teams will bring something for all of the boys. I think it is usually because they did not have time for something before they left and are heading out to something else right after our Tiger meeting. I don't mind. The boys can snack while doing a gathering activity.

Scoutmom157 - You said this issue has already been addressed. It sounds to me like it needs to be addressed again. You also said these guys have common sense. They might, but it obviously does not extend to smoking. A reminder of BSA's policy on tobacco use at your next Pack Leaders meeting is warranted. Let them know that anyone smoking around the Scouts will be asked to put it out immediately.

The only money your families might be able to make a case for is a partial refund of the $50 annual dues, since you were only there 6 months. Everything else is no longer your money. The Troop has no obligation to either sell, or give you either trailer. Contact your Charter Org, not the SM, about your dues. Remember, the Troop is OWNED by the CO and all monies raised or donated, belong to them. You might also mention the way the SM is behaving and that he is encouraging the Scouts to act in un-scoutlike ways to the other Scouts.

According to the Insignia Guide, Contest Medals can, indeed, be worn. "Contest medal, with red and white ribbon, Boy Scout, above left pocket" While it might be like a trophy, it is a trophy which can be worn.

The Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, pretty much walks the Scout thru the process. "Before You Start The project plan must be reviewed and approved by the beneficiary of the project, your unit leader, the unit committee, and the council or district advancement committee before the project is started. The following questions must be answered before giving this approval:  What is the project you are planning?  Who will benefit from the project?  How will they benefit?  What representative of the projects beneficiary will be contacted for guidance in planning the project?  What are the project planning details? Remember, the project must be approved before you begin, so make sure all signatures have been secured before you start the project." The workbook then provides space for the Scout to answer these questions and to get the proper approval signatures. Many councils also assign an Eagle Mentor to Scouts approaching Eagle.

This is rather nice. http://www.bsalegal.org/downloads/bsa_military_tribute.swf

What I find interesting are the following quotes - "now been targeted directly at out Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and Venturers as we have a Pack, Troop & Crew." "We have 7 young men working on their Eagle projects" "Our roster was growing steadily" "Parnts and youth alike have come out in droves to support us and the program" "what a positive impact the program and our family mentality has had on them all" Throughout the entire post is OUR and WE HAVE - These are not YOUR units. This is NOT YOUR PROGRAM! Why would "parents and youth alike" have to "come out in droves" to support "the program"? What program? The BSA program? Why would the BSA program need support against the BSA? What, exactly, is your "family mentality"? And finally - "The reason for all of this is obvious to us, my wife filed suit against the Council and we must now be punished for it." Why would you think that what is happening with the units and the Scouts was done SIMPLY to PUNISH YOU?? That is putting yourselves on quite a pedestal. Revoking a Charter is BIG stuff, revoking THREE Charters is even bigger. It is not done as a punishment to an individual. Interrupting even one boy's Scouting trail is not done on a whim, much less as a punishment to an adult individual. Interrupting THREE UNITS worth of boys Scouting trails is done even less lightly. It sounds to me like there is a LOT of a back story to this.

OK, we are talking 65-35 degrees, not sub zero. This is actually rather balmy. These are new scouts, doing car camping & some moderate hiking. No need to break the bank buying high tech gear for this. Jeans and cotton will be fine for what you are doing. Stress layers so they can put on and take off as it gets cooler/warmer. I think that long underwear is overkill for these temperatures. Wal-Mart is fine for the little they will need. A knit hat for sleeping and another for outdoors. A couple pairs of those cheap, stretchy, one size, knit gloves will be fine. A couple pairs of good socks for hiking. They can use an old pair for sleeping. Decent Hiking Boots or sturdy athletic shoes if they can't afford the boots. Not wimpy canvas tennies. Sweats for sleeping in Short sleeved t-shirts Long sleeved t-shirts Fleece top and/or sweatshirt (hooded is good) Lighter weight jacket that can cut the wind. Rain gear When the boys are up and active the lowest temps will probably be in the low 50-40's range and that will be in the early morning and late evening. The lowest temps will be while they are in bed and first thing in the morning. As long as they layer, bring extra socks, and put on all completely clean, dry stuff (including underwear) to sleep in, they should be fine. Even with cotton.

Not sure what rubber gloves containers look like or are made of. Are you talking about rectangular cardboard boxes?