ScoutNut

National will be requiring background checks on those volunteers who have not had one done as of yet. The affected volunteers will have from June 1 - Aug 1, 2008, to consent to a background check and provide the necessary information (SSN). Anyone who does not consent, will loose their registration until they turn in a new BSA application. This will cover all BSA units and LFL Explorer posts.

Books? I did not see any info about books. Everything they have is online. The trail info is simply a listing of some of the trails in some of the states. They list contact info also so you can get more information on the trail from the organization promoting it.

I was my son's DL from Wolf thru Webelos and have been Tiger Den Leader for the last 10 years. If I received a knot for each training award cycle my shirt would be covered. I don't need a shirt full of knots and devices to let others know what I have accomplished. Watching a "little" guy I had as a Tiger receive his Eagle is enough for me.

*** REMINDER *** These folks are VERY slow to deliver the awards. Either order your own patch (custom or stock) from one of the many patch companies online, or allow at LEAST 2-3 MONTHS to receive the awards from Nation Trails.

There are a number of different things they can be. Without seeing them it is hard to tell. Are any of the boys in the Pack wearing any segments? You best bet might be to take a few in to your local Scout Shop and look around. If you can't find anything similar, ask the Shop staff. My council carries the small segments with pictures on them like these at Benchmark Awards - http://www.benchmarkawards.com/cgi-bin/web_catalog.exe?Category=Segments&Page=Page.htm Not every council utilizes segments like these. Of those that do, some have specific requirements to earn them, and others, like my council, do not. Since the segments are usually around $0.50 ea, they are much cheaper than a full size patch costing $1+. Our Pack uses them as participation recognitions. We give them out for just about everything a boy does. Attendance at Pack meetings, outings, service projects, popcorn, etc. They go in circles around our Council patch on the back of their red "brag vest". If a boy has been with us for 4.5 years the back of his vest can get pretty much covered. It looks rather cool!

If it is in your son's den, why not just ask the den leader? If it is not your son's den, then while it might sound questionable, you might have misheard, or been misinformed. Either way it is up to the den leaders and the parents.

Check out the Application for BSA Lifeguard for information - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34435.pdf Ask at your Council Service Center for contact info for currently trained BSA Aquatics Instructors or BSA Lifeguard Counselors.

Welcome! I would talk to the BALOO trained person who is in charge of the campout. They might already have programing in mind. On our Pack campouts, Friday nights are usually pretty sparse. We will have the BALOO leaders and a few families. Most of the campers come out early Saturday morning. Friday evening is therefore very informal. Folks are expected to eat dinner before they come. We clean/set up the area, play some frisbee, take a short hike or do some fishing depending on what is available. When it gets dark we will have a small camping campfire (no performances), and a Cracker Barrel (crackers, cheese, sausage, fruit, with chatting about whatever comes to mind and maybe a joke or three). Then it's to bed and up early in the AM to get breakfast ready for any early morning arrivals.

Are you positive that this is the monthly Pack meeting, complete with award presentations? Usually outings like these are in addition to the regular Pack meeting and not replacing it. I still would have no problem with visiting the karate facility, as long as it was strictly a demonstration. It is NOT "specifically contrary to BSA policy" to VIEW these activities, only to PARTICIPATE as a SCOUT. If you are concerned, why not talk to your Cubmaster. Let him know that you were under the impression that karate was not allowed as a Scouting activity by BSA, and you are hesitant to allow your son to attend because of that. Ask him for clarification. BTW - Just because you are registered with a Pack does not mean you are required to stay there no matter what. You might consider shopping around for a Pack that is a better fit for your family.

Having 4 leadership positions (den leader for 2 dens, 3 as of next year, and CC), along with web, newsletter, etc, etc, etc, it WAY to much. It's not good for the Pack and the boy's programs will suffer because you are stretched way to thin. This is why BSA states that you should only be registered in one position.

"The employees at the shops I've been to are all national employees." Then the shops you have visited have all been National Shops, owned by BSA National. However, not all of them are. There are many council owned shops out there, staffed by council employees. Also, just because it is a National Shop, does not mean the shop employees are any more knowledgeable. Our shop went National last year and the folks who worked at our council shop were a LOT more knowledgeable than the folks who staff the shop now.

Welcome! As a den leader there is not a lot you can do to correct your Cubmaster's performance. You simply need to concentrate on your den and make sure you are giving them a great program. As for attending Roundtables and knowing what is happening in your district and council, once again, you can't force your CM to do this. However, anyone can go to Roundtable. Get a few of your other den leaders together and attend your district's (or any district's if yours is inconvenient) April Roundtable. While you are there, find out if your council has an e-newsletter. Sign up for it ASAP! Check out your council's web site. If they have a yearly calendar (look for both 2007-2008 & 2008-2009), download and print it off. Now that you are an informed den leader, you can share what you learn every month at your Pack Leaders Meeting!

NHawk52, being a youth in the program 40 years ago is WAY different from being an adult Scouter in the program today. A lot has changed in the BSA Scouting programs in 40 years, especially in Cub Scouts. The practice of asking for a leader to step up from a new group of Cubs is not a new, or unique, one. In fact, that is how many den leaders, and die-hard Scouters, are born. You state that you "should" have taken the position because of your experience, but that your work schedule would not allow you to do so. Actually, the person who "should" be den leader is the person who has the time for it, has the willingness to be be there for all of the boys, and who wants to see the boys have a great Scouting experience. Note, I did not say "has prior experience". Experience as a youth 40 years ago is actually not that far from "untrained and inexperienced". As long as the den leader has taken Youth Protection, New Leaders Essentials, and Webelos Leader specific training, and has and reads the Webelos Leader and Webelos Scout Handbooks, she should be fine. Attending District Roundtables would help as would having the other Webelos leaders as resources. I would stop comparing everything to the other Webelos den. It is simply not fair to your den's leader or to the boys in your son's den. The reality is that every leader is different, every den is different, and there are simply to many boys to have only one 4th grade Webelos (there is no BSA designation of Webelos 1 and 2) den. There was NO OTHER option for the Pack or the den. You mention that the SM and ASM always use the "Boy Scout" handshake with the Cub Scouts at Pack meetings. Why is the Scoutmaster and an Asst Scoutmaster running Cub Scout Pack meetings? Where is the Cubmaster (CM) and the rest of the Cub Scout leadership? For that matter, since the Cub Scout handshake (right hand, 2 fingers along wrist) is distinctly different from the Scout Handshake (regular handshake using left hand), and all new Cub Scouts MUST learn the Cub Scout Handshake to earn Bobcat, how are they being confused with one another? I would think that a brand new Bobcat would be the first one to correct an adult who held out the incorrect hand to him! You stated - "Just last month the SM announced that the coming Pack meeting will be held at a commercial Karate facility to acquaint the boys with the philosophical benefits of martial arts. Although I personally agree with this philosophy, I see as not only an environment detrimental to order and attention to Scout business, but also a flagrant violation of BSA policy." While I still do not understand why the leader of a Boy Scout Troop is running a Cub Scout Pack, I also do not fully understand your objections. Yes, boxing, karate, and related martial arts are not authorized BSA activities. However, defensive martial arts like judo, aikido, and Tai Chi ARE authorized. Participation is recommended for Boy Scout level and above, but they are definitely NOT a "flagrant violation". Why do you assume that the boys will be learning actual karate moves? You can "acquaint the boys with the philosophical benefits of martial arts", by watching demonstrations of judo, aikido, or Tai Chi. All of which is possible at a commercial karate facility. Actually, it sounds like it could be fun! Yes, they might throw in a pitch to sign up for classes, even karate classes, but that would be up to the individual family to do on their own and would in no way be a "scouting" activity. As for "an environment detrimental to order and attention to Scout business", I don't agree. The folks doing the demos need to have relative quiet for concentration. Somehow I don't believe the facility owner would allow the Scouts to run amok. If the boys are interested in what is going on, their attention will be captured, and the "Scout business" is to have fun while, hopefully, learning something. Your one complaint you have that I agree with is awarding boys their recognitions ASAP after they are earned. This is a basic BSA tenet in ALL BSA programs. Boys, and girls, from Tigers to Venturers should work, and advance, at their own pace, and be recognized at the next possible meeting for their accomplishments. Unfortunately, there are a lot of well meaning folks out there who think it is more meaningful to have 1 big celebration for everyone at the same time, feel some boys are to young to earn certain ranks, feel boys should wait until it is convenient for the adults, and other hogwash. This type of mentality is hard to overcome. All you can do is to talk to the den leaders and try to get them to come around.

The Committee Chair can't stop you from writing at the meeting. So,take your own notes. That way you have them if you need them.

I agree with Barry, and so does the BSA! BSA has this helpful brochure - "Selecting Cub Scout Leadership" - available at your local Council offices. It gives you a step-by-step plan on how to select and recruit leaders for your Pack. What it basically states is to make a list of 2 or 3 people who you feel would be a good fit for, and do a good job at, a SPECIFIC position. Start at the top of your list and VISIT each person at their home. Give them all of the information on the position, including a time frame for how long they would be committing to do it, and try your best to sell them on accepting the position. If them accept it GREAT! If not, you go to #2 on your list and repeat until you have the position filled. You do this with EACH posisiton INDIVIDUALLY. Yep, this is a bit more work than simply holding up a list at a Pack meeting and having a "cattle call". But, in the end you get the best person for the job and leaders YOU want for your Pack. BTW - about your list - There is no such position as "Den Leader Coach". Never heard of a "Pack Meeting Coordinator". The position is Cubmaster. You should have Assistant Den Leaders at each level (except Tiger, not needed with shared leadership amoung Tiger Teams). Your "Outdoor Chair" should be BALOO trained. Ideally you should have more than 1 BALOO trained leader (2-4 is good). This prevents overnights getting canceled when the BALOO person can't attend and spreads the work around.

buffalojoe states - "Yes the Religious Awards are part of the scouting program. And only reason a person would be reasonable to question the DL on the exercise is if it was in the way of normal advancement or more importantly causing a boy undue or unnecessary stress." Nope, sorry Buffalojoe, you are incorrect. While BSA has approved these programs, and allows the various emblems to be worn on the BSA uniform - they are NOT BSA programs. BSA has this to say - "What are the religious emblems programs? The religious emblems programs are programs created by the various religious groups to encourage youth to grow stronger in their faith. The religious groupsnot the Boy Scouts of Americahave created the religious emblems programs themselves. The Boy Scouts of America has approved of these programs and allows the recognition to be worn on the official uniform, but each religious organization develops and administers its own program." This is what BSA says about working on religious emblems in your unit - "The religious emblems programs should be presented to youth members and their families as an optional program for them to complete through their religious organization. Religious instruction should always come from the religious organization, not from the unit leader." So there is some reason, from BSA itself, to question why a den leader is running a religious emblem program in his den meetings.

A 14 year old DATING a 20 year old is WAY different than a 14 year old and a 20 year old doing Venturing (or any other youth group) activities together. If you can not differentiate the two then maybe you should not be in a leadership role in a co-ed youth group. LongHaul asks - "So as a parent you understand that the Venturing program is 14 to 20 age wise but when your 14 year old comes home and tells you she met this great guy on the campout that's 20 and in college. "We sorta hung out all day." You say "I'm glad your making new friends?" Actually, I would say to her the same thing I would if she said she met this "great guy on the campout" that is 21, 22, 23, 24, or 50, and they "sorta hung out all day". - By "hanging out" I hope you mean doing the pre-planned activities? IF NOT, have you considered why a 20-50 year old man is "hanging out" with a 14 year old and where, EXACTLY, were the Leaders during all of this "hanging out"? I would most likely ask similar questions if the person in qustion was 15-20 years old too. If it were a youth protection issue I would contact the SE and have the offending person (weather 20 or 50 years old) dealt with. If it was a really serious issue. I would consider civil charges. However, if was a couple of stupid kids, doing stupid things, I would have a long, hard talk with MY stupid kid. And I would REALLY like to know that the program leadership were doing their jobs and following all of the rules. BTW - I do not believe allowing unmarried males and females, of ANY age, to sleep in the same tent is allowed by BSA. And if it were a single room sleeping arrangement, and I felt uncomfortable with the quality of the leadership present, I would make a point of attending WITH my child.

Sorry, I'm with GW on this one. "If your 14 year old daughter (Crew youth, freshman in high school) was hanging out with a 20 year old boy (Crew youth, sophomore in college) I'm sure the BSA rules will go right out the window!" "I never said the rules would or should go out the window, but I did say that a father finding out that his 14 y/o daughter was hanging out with a 20 y/o college student may indeed bypass most civilized rules (including any the BSA may have in place) to correct the situation. :^)" As you can see, you DID indeed state "the BSA rules will go right out the window". Your explanation did little to clear things up for me. Are you saying that this hypothetical father did not know what the membership ages for Venturing youth are when he registered his 14 year old daughter? Are you then stating that this father would either take his daughter out of Venturing or cause physical harm to come to a 20 year old boy for doing activities with his daughter? Also, why stop at a 20 year old young man? Why would this upset father allow his daughter to go on any activities, much less any overnighters, with men who are 21+ years old? Why would that extra year, or 2, or 10, or more, make him any more comfortable with these men "hanging out" with his daughter? I'm sorry, but for me your "problem" scenario just does not hold any water. If you are signing your child up to participate in a program, then you usually know what that program is, who it's members are, what the programs rules are, and you make sure that there is proper supervision. If you have no clue what you are signing your child up for, and are horrified when you find 14 and 20 year olds of opposite sexes are doing things together, then the problem is the parent, not necessarily the program. I'm not sure what the co-ed groups that you have been involved in for 30 years are doing together, but as a parent, I would have no problem with my 14 yo daughter attending Venturing activities with 20 yo boys. Personally, I would have a MUCH bigger problem with my 14 yo daughter "hanging out" with her classmates older brother, in someones home, without any parental supervision at all!

Thanks for explaining! Of course, your Wolf Scouts could earn the shooting belt loops at their first Day Camp, apply them toward the Wolf elective, and then earn them again at Day Camp the following year as a Bear, and then again for a third year as a Webelos! We don't sweat the extra belt loops. If the leaders send in the request, the Pack will purchase them. We have never had any one really abuse our "open loop" policy yet.

The only reason I have ever seen for running a car of a person who is not physically present at the PWD, that makes any kind of sense at all, is when there is a District PWD and the Pack wants to make sure the boys car would have the opportunity to qualify for it. We have no District PWD, and we also have no non-scout division. Our PWD is for the boys. To have fun working with their family on a project, to have fun racing their car, and to learn fair play and sportsmanship. The boys bring their cars to check in & register. Besides the BS Den Chiefs running the track, the boys are the only ones who handle their cars. What fun is it to have a parent run a car for an absent child? How can that child cheer on his car, and others, when they are not there? What can they learn? In our Pack you must be present to race.

In a large District they should have even more volunteers available for EBOR's. You get 6 Board Members together 1 Saturday each month. An EBOR should be 30 mins MAX. Run 2 Boards (3 ea) starting from 9AM, and even with an hour for lunch, they can do 20 EBOR's and be done by around 3PM. We run all day trainings all of the time, an all day BOR should be a piece of cake.

We have no written by-laws in our Pack, and see no need for any.

Nothing. We fund our program entirely thru our popcorn sale.

"This is a super idea--if you are in a Council that uses rockers for activities and if they make them available for the Sports and Academic program. Unfortunately, not all councils use this program." There are several patch companies out there that you can purchase segment patches from. Welsh Industries has a good selection and you can mix and match. "The Wolf Elective saying to earn one of the shooting BL has never been an issue because we have rarely had a Tiger attend DC. They mostly join in the fall so attend their first DC as a Wolf." I am not sure I understand. A Tiger can not earn a Wolf Elective. It does not matter if he attends Day Camp or not. A boy must be a registered Wolf Cub Scout to earn a Wolf Elective. A Tiger who joins in May/June after graduating from kindergarten, can attend Day Camp that first summer as a Tiger. He can NOT get credit for any Wolf Electives during camp however. Tiger Electives - Yes, Wolf Electives - No. If a Tiger joins in September/October, while he is in 1st grade, at the end of 1st grade, or June 1st, he is no longer considered a Tiger. He graduates to a Wolf Cub Scout. If, as a Wolf Cub Scout, he attends Summer Camp that summer after 1st grade, and does Archery and/or BB's, he can count them toward his Sports Wolf Elective #20c or #20n. He can not be awarded an Elective Arrow Point until after he has earned his Wolf Rank Award, but he CAN work on Electives any time after becoming a Wolf. Some councils also have various events during the year that include archery and/or BB's. "SSScout said that their boys go to DC early each day to earn the Archery Pin. That surprised me. I am courious as to why since at our DC we have(not every year, but some) had the boys earn the Archery Pin during regular DC hours. They get to shoot every day--both Archery and BB Guns." Every District, in every Council, runs their Day Camp differently. At my District's Day Camp we only have archery, no BB's. Depending on when we can get a range officer, we might not be able to have it every day. At one of the other Districts, they do not hold a traditional Day Camp at all. They hold various event/swimming days, with no shooting sports at all.

"Why is a Pack giving the Boy Scout Handbook and red epilets. These should be coming from the troop." Why? Where is this written? Who gives the new boys their Handbook and shoulder loops, Pack, Troop, or their parents, is strictly a matter of unit tradition. Or finances if the unit can not afford to purchase them. Our Pack gives our 5th grade Webelos a compass, their BS Handbook, their red shoulder loops and a slide as a crossover gift. We hope that these things will help encourage them to follow thru with joining the Troop and to encourage them to stay the course. "Boys can not "crossover" unless they are going into a troop." True, but they might change their minds and decide not to continue into Boy Scouts. "Also, any boy that has earned their AOL, part of the requirements for earning it is transfering to a troop." No, it is not. The requirement states to visit a Troop you might like to join and to have a conference with the Scoutmaster. That's it. Nothing about actually joining a Troop.