ScoutNut

Since all councils are chartered, and owned by, the National organization, that would be the place to start. I believe that the local council would also have to agree to relase the charters of the affected units. Forming a new council is not just creating something from nothing. A council is already there, you would be affecting all of the people in that established council, not only the people in the area you were separating from it. It would be very hard to convince National to split a council up, Daddy Warbucks or not. There would have to be extrordinary, overriding, reasons involved, not simply - we don't like our current council.

DanKroh states - "Ok, I'm confused. If you have to have a signed Advancement Report to purchase the rank badge, how do you purchase rank badges for boys that have not actually finished their rank requriements? Are you fudging your Advancement Reports to record that boys have advanced who haven't actually finished their requirements (so you can purchase the award)? If so, what do you do if a boy doesn't actually finish, but Council then thinks he has?" Yes, the Advancement Report is "fudged". When the Advancement Chair purchases the rank awards, he will purchase them for the entire den at one time. As I stated, if for whatever reason, a boy does not earn his Tiger, Wolf or Bear rank, the badge goes into the Pack's stock of patches to be used to replace a lost badge. The dates for rank awards for Tiger, Wolf and Bear are not "critical". Putting on the report that a boy earned his rank in February, when he actually earns it in April will not affect any future awards he earns. The same is true for weather or not they are earned at all. If the report states that Johnny earned Wolf in March, but he never actually earns it, his future in Scouting will not be affected one way or another. The Webelos rank, and AOL, however, are date critical, and are only listed as earned.

cubdadinnj - The rules you stated are for BSA COUNCIL Web pages. There is no letter vs spirit of the law here, it is pretty cut and dried. Council Web pages are owned and operated by the Council. BSA Council's are owned by the BSA National organization. The BSA National organization has every right to make rules stating what should and should not be on THEIR Web sites. As stated in the BSA quote by the other poster, Unit Web sites are NOT owned by BSA. They are owned by the units Charter Organization. If the CO has no objection to banner ads, than that, as they say, is that.

Many councils use the online Advancement system. However, since not everyone has Internet access just yet, many also use paper forms. My Council uses both and always required a filled out (& signed) Advancement Report in order to purchase Rank Awards. What we will usually do is purchase the Rank award for every member of the den at the same time. Then we have it on hand for whenever they finish. If they do not finish, it goes into our badge stock to be used for replacing lost badges.

Hoover Outdoor Education Center was sold by CAC a number of years back, but it was still operated by the council as a Scout Camp until 2007.

A boy who is registered as a Tiger Cub in the Spring, after his graduation from kindergarten, can earn the Summertime Award pin, by attending a summer event with his new Pack in June, July and August. If the Pack does not register Tigers until Fall, they can not earn a Summertime Award as a Tiger.

"This is further complicated by the fact that our council does not accept rank advancement after May 31" Why on earth not? When do they start selling rank awards again? Have you considered going to a different Council's Scout Shop? Or, purchasing the rank awards earlier, when your council is still selling them? If you look at the report card that your son brings home on the last day of class, it states that he has been promoted to the next grade level. It does not give an "as of" date in 2 weeks, a month, or the following Fall. The promotion is effective when he gets that report card. If you read thru the Cub Scout Leader Book, it specifically states that if a boy has not earned his rank award by the end of school, he may take some extra time to work on it if he wishes. The only stipulation is that he can only work in ONE program at a time, so he can not do any work in his new handbook, until he has finished with his old one. Also, this extension is for the RANK AWARD ONLY, not electives, or other level specific awards.

Camp Tomo-Chi-Chi-Knolls Huntley, IL, 2 years ago.

LOL! I actualy just noticed that on the National site and was looking for the old thread to post the link! I went thru some of it, and it seems to give short shift (quick & dirty) to some of the requirements/electives. It also really crams the stuff in there. I still do not like that it takes away most of the Family Involvement method. Even with the Tigers, it has you doing most of the Family Achievements in the den. And the much repeated resource section is simply the National Web site. It just feels WAY to regimented for me.

As others have stated, you can only be registered in ONE position. Either Asst CM or Den Leader. You can, however, hold more than one position informally. This is not recommended (and probably why your CM wants you to drop DL) by BSA because it is felt that you should concentrate on doing that one job to the absolute best of your ability, which would possibly not happen if you are trying to do 2 or 3 jobs at once. Also, you mentioned that your current CM will only be CM for the next 18 months. It sounds like he wants you to step up to replace him as CM at that time. You need to decide if that is something you would like to do. With the Tiger Den using Shared Leadership among the families, a Tiger Den Leader has more help with the den than most. If you think it is something you can handle, you could register as Tiger Den Leader, and be the ACM on the side for, say, the first 4 months. That would give you time to see how you feel about both positions (DL & CM), and give you time to get to know the other families in both the Tiger Den and the Pack. In January you can make a choice of which position really seems to fit you. Then you can either find a Tiger Parent to replace you in the den, or a Pack parent to replace you as the ACM (potential future CM). Remember - This is only if you feel you are up to doing both positions well for the short term. Edited to add - Responsibilities of an ACM - http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/aboutcubscouts/thepack/acmas.aspx Responsibilities of a CM - http://old.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-237.pdf (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

It does not matter if every Wolf Scout had both parents, both grandparents, and all aunts and uncles present - They can NOT camp as a Den! From the Guide to Safe Scouting - in BOLD TYPEFACE - "Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America."

My advice - All of the leaders in your den need to take training ASAP!! First - a Wolf Den can NOT camp as a den. It is not allowed by BSA. They can only camp at Council events and with the rest of their Pack (in an overnighter planned and run by the Pack BALOO trained adult). Second - Electives can be worked on from the time they graduate to their current level, until they graduate into the next Cub level. They can only receive them AFTER they have earned their current level's rank award. This rule is for Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scouts, so your Scouts should have done the same last year as Tigers with their Tiger Tracks. Have your boys earned the Fishing Belt Loop? There is nothing wrong with working on awards, but there is more to Scouting than that. With 15 boys and 5 leaders, have you considered splitting into 2 dens?

"Multiple people from my Pack and several leaders from other Packs have suggested that I take over." Determining who holds leadership positions in a Pack is not up to misc people in the Pack, and especially not people outside of the Pack. Where is your Charter Organization (CO) in all of this? The CO owns the unit and is responsible for providing leadership. What is the view of the Charter Org Rep (COR) and the Committee Chair (CC). If these 3 (CO, COR, CC) are fine with the job the current CM is doing then there is nothing that you can do except concentrate on giving your den a good program. Also, the only "qualification" needed to be a leader is the desire to serve the unit and provide the boys a great BSA program. A willingness to get trained helps too. A brand new to Scouting adult is just as "qualified" as an Eagle Scout.

Boys work in their Cub level the entire school year. They move (graduate) to their next Cub level, and can start working in their new handbooks, at the end of the school year (weather or not they have earned the rank award of their current level). BSA automaticaly moves every registered Cub up to their next level June 1st.

Karen - Something like these? - http://www.scoutmanage.com/ http://www.scouttrack.com/ Fast Tracks is not a management program. It is a pilot program (not available nationally or part of the regular Cub program yet) BSA is looking at for Cub Scouts to give leaders step by step instructions on doing all rank requirements in the den meetings.

Contact info for BSA's Marketing and Communications Division - http://marketing.scouting.org/misc/contact.html

I do not use Denners in Tigers, because with Shared Leadership they really are not needed. Each Tiger Team is in charge for their alloted time frame. For the other dens, Denner/Asst Denner do pretty much what Centerville describd. They take attendence, collect dues, pass out newsletters, do the opening and closing Flag Ceremony, help distribute craft stuff, help organize games, help clean up at the end.

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Personally, for individual den use, there are enough decent free programs out there, that I would not pay for one. For a program that you pay for, I prefer one that covers the entire Pack and can be customized for local awards. There are a number of these tracking programs out there now. Some are Packmaster, Scout Data (free but not very adaptable yet), Scout Track, and Scout Manage. For my den I have taken one of the free programs and adapted it for my own use. Our Pack uses Pack Manage.

I believe the point in the other thread was that the CM took 6 months to get the application for CC to council, and in that time no one (including the unit itself it seems) would acknowledge that this person was the registered CC. A CM has no approval on any adult application. The approvals come from the CC, COR &/or IH. It seemed that the application was given to the CM simply because the CM was seen as the "head" of the Pack and the one who would normally get any and all applications. The CM did no one any favors in this instance.

I too am in favor of small councils. My council is in the 100 level and I think it is GREAT! I know most of the folks at the council office, they know most of the active volunteers, I know Scouters from all over my council. Districts are not to spread out that it is inconvenient to take training in, or attend an event in, a different District. We have had our financial challenges, but we are working on them, and doing a pretty good job. We are rather like a large family and I like that about us!

"I dont really think they care if they have cub scouts or not considering they told us we could use the fellowship hall for graduation, we got there to set up and there was a wedding rehearsal dinner." This does not necessarily mean that the Charter Organization does not "care if they have cub scouts or not". Mostly it means that there is a problem with communication between the CO and it's Pack and between different people within the CO. We schedule our Pack dates on the Parish Calender in June for the upcoming school year. The Parish got a new Secretary and the school got a new Principal. We ended up with a school dance scheduled on the evening of our Pack Haunted House Foodraiser. This was a nasty surprise when the flier went home from the school 2 weeks before! Needless to say our CC & CM had to do some fast foot work to head this off. The school dance was re-scheduled. These things happen. Things don't get put on the calendar that should be there, and things get put on that should not be there. That's life and something a unit's leadership has to be vigilant to keep an eye out for. As I said before, this is all water under the Scouting bridge. Make your new Pack experience a great one. Oh, and get trained, and bring other adults with you to get trained too!

Per Step #12 of "The 12 Steps from Life to Eagle" on the back of the "Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook" - "The (National) Eagle Scout Service screens the application to ascertain information such as proper signature, positions of responsibility, tenure between ranks, and age of the candidate. Any item not meeting national standards will cause the application to be returned for more information. If the application is in order, the Scout is then certified as an Eagle Scout by the Eagle Scout Service on behalf of the National Council. Notice of approval is given by sending the Eagle Scout certificate to the local council. The date used on the certificate will be the date of the board of review. THE EAGLE AWARD MUST NOT BE SOLD OR GIVEN TO ANY UNIT UNTIL AFTER THE CERTIFICATE IS RECEIVED BY THE COUNCIL SERVICE CENTER. The Eagle Scout court of honor should not be scheduled until the local council receives the Eagle Scout rank credentials." So, to answer your question - "Can a Scout wear the Eagle Patch before his approval from National, or does he have to wait?" - Since the patch can not be purchased until after the council has received approval from National, the answer would have to be - He has to wait. And, your Dist Advancement Chair was correct.

Was the "old" CC still acting as CC from 1/10/08 until 6/02/08? If so the paperwork should have gone to him/her. The Charter Organization Representative, or the Head of the Charter Organization, are the ones ultimately responsible for approving new unit leaders. The Cubmaster does NOT figure into this at all, and should not have had the application. Also, if the paperwork was lost, and the check never cashed, why not simply cancel the check, fill out a new application, write out a new check and give it to the COR (NOT the CM) for approval and transmittal to council. Perhaps your wife was not supposed to start her job as CC until June when the Pack re-chartered? If so, then the "old" CC was the one who should have been addressing the problems. Why did that not happen? However, you are now no longer responsible for that Pack in any way, shape, or form. Move on to your new Pack and concentrate on it and your boys.

Talk to the parents, give them the list of things their sons should be working on, and make it their (& their sons) responsibility.