ScoutNut

"I guess I was under the impression that I needed the boys before I could charter the troop." You do. To sign the paperwork, pay the $, and actually get a Troop Charter, you need at least 5 registed boys. You don't need the actual charter paperwork to put together the adults, get them trained and get everything all set and ready for the boys. If you look at "The New-Unit Organization Process", at the National Web site link provided by jmwalston in the first post after your initial one, you would see that there are 12 steps to organizing a new BSA unit. Recruit Youth Members is step 9 with Complete the Paperwork at step 10.

BW is correct, as an ASM you have no say in who the SM is. If you are concerned, you should talk to your CC and your COR. If they are happy with the job the SM is doing then that is it, the SM stays. Your council has no say in the matter unless there is a Youth Protection issue which has been reported to the SE.

""From the information I was given many moons ago the ScoutParents website was set up by BSA itself. Am I wrong? " No, you're not wrong. The BSA rolled it out about a year ago." Actually, you are wrong. While BSA is utilizing this concept, ScoutParents.org is NOT a BSA Web site, and is not listed on the National BSA Web site in any capacity, much less as one of it's National sites.

BW stated - "you will find that the BSA specifically makes reoccuring bad behavior the responsibility of the Troop Committee." BSA also specifically states it should be done in conjunction with the parents.

Per BSA policies on discipline, the parents are to be involved when dealing with youth behavior problems. Holding "secret" Committee meetings is against BSA policy. There should have been, at the very least, a SMC with the boy AND his parents to discuss his behavior. Then, whatever consequences are decided on by the Troop, the parents should be involved in all the way along. Ignoring the family and letting them all find out what was done thru gossip, is unconscionable. Shame on ALL of the Committee members and Troop leaders for not handling this correctly.

Without earning their AOL, the boys MUST have finished 5th grade and be at least 10 years old. They can also join a Troop without their AOL if they are 11 years old. Unless all of the boys in the den turned 10 in January there is no possible way that they have met all of the AOL requirements right now. Also, unless they all turned 10 in April, or earlier, there is no way that they can meet the requirements for AOL by October either. Most school districts finish the school year at the end of May. Six months after that (AOL Requirement) is the end of November. Kahits, you need to calm down and stop rushing these boys along. They are not "your" boys. It is not "your" den or Pack. Let the boys move at THEIR own pace. Perhaps they want to work on more Activity Badges. Maybe they want to stay in the Pack for PWD one last time. Maybe the Pack's December Pack meeting is special to them. If they have a decent DL there is still plenty for them to do as Webelos to keep them interested. If you keep pushing, and rushing them, they may just decide that they would rather go elsewhere.

As I posted above, my Pack makes the red brag vests for all of our boys. While I do like the fishing vest idea, and they did look nice, $15 dollars would make 7-10 felt vests. We give a vest to all of our new Scouts from Tigers thru Webelos. With the vest they get a round Council patch which is put on the center of the back. For every event they attend they receive a small, curved, segment patch that goes around the council patch. If they start as a Tiger, and are very active, by the time they cross to Boy Scouts their vest can have 6 to 8 rings of patches on the back, and lots of other patches on the front. Very colorful, and a great keepsake for all they have done as a Cub Scout. Many boys will display their vests, with the rest of their Scout memorabilia, at their Eagle COH.

This is not done capriciously to deny the family a fun opportunity. It is done to protect the children. Youth Protection specifically forbids a youth from sleeping in a tent with an adult who is not his parent or guardian. There is no reason why the entire family can not go on the campout. They have a few options. 1)They can purchase a larger 3/4-man tent for the mom and her 2 children and let the fiancee use a council 2-man on his own. 2)Borrow a larger 3/4-man tent from a Troop and have fiancee use 2-man. 3)Use 3 of the council's 2-man tents with fiancee in one, mom in one, and kids in one. Depending on the ages of the kids, if they don't want to tent with each other, one can tent with mom and one can tent solo, or everyone can tent separately in 4 of the 2-man tents.

You know Ed, I wondered that too. If you register individually, without an adult, how would the Camp Director make sure there are enough adults for each group? In my council, for Cub Summer Camps, they take individual registrations, but they require the boys to register with a parent. They also make it clear that if you register late they will not be able to guarantee that you will be placed with the rest of your unit. Day Campers are asked to register as a unit with at least 2 adults and then 1 adult for every 5 boys. They will take individual registrations, but then require a parent to sign up with the boy. Here also, if you sign up individually, at the last minute, they can not guarantee that you will be placed in the same group as the rest of your Pack. Den groupings are not put together the night before the campers arrive. They are done soon after the deadline cutoff so that the Camp Director knows how to manage the Camp set up. Most Camp Directors, while they will try to accommodate, will not throw their entire camp plan up for grabs because some folks register the day before camp starts!

If, when you left the Pack, you were on good terms with everyone, I would say go for it! Contact your CC and find out what kind of help they could use. A permanent Tiger Den Leader who is familiar with Scouting and the Pack is a BIG plus!

The Camporee neckers are not considered official uniform parts. You are correct, they are more of a display piece. You, as leader might wear one for the first meeting to tell your Tiger Teams about the Camporee, but not as a permanent necker, and not your Tiger. The slides are a different matter altogether. BSA Insignia Guide states that you can wear the regular slides from National Supply, or other, boy made slides. The Camporee slide would fall in this category. You and your Tiger can both wear the slides with pride! Have FUN!

"What I am supposed to do in the future when I parent who is late signing their kid up comes to me and ask can I still register" You tell them the truth - You have no idea, they must talk to the folks at the council offices and register there, if they still can.

If your council allows/encourages individual sign ups, and does not make it mandatory to sign up for Webelos Resident Camp as a unit then I would not worry about it at all. Knowing how many of "your" boys will be there is nice to know, but not really necessary. All of the "planning" is done by the Camp Staff. If/when your CM registers, your council will put them where they have room. It really has nothing to do with you, and I would not worry about it.

The economy has been bad for a number of years now. You can't let it discourage you. Basically you just need to work harder for the sales you get.

"I'm a little offended by your remark. We care too much about each kid and there are not very many in our Pack that even have the vests." So you want to tell little Jimmy, who is proud as a peacock of all of the patches on his vest, that he can't wear it because - A) He will look different from the other Scouts and that is bad, or B) He might make a boy who doesn't have a vest feel bad? Why let them have vests at all if you do not want them to wear them? Vests are GREAT! They are wonderful, walking billboards of everything your Pack does. Our Pack makes our red vests and we give it to the new Scouts at their first Pack meeting. If your Pack has a bit more $, or if you charge your families for the vest, I saw a great idea at our Summer Camp Weekend. One of the Packs used tan fishing vests as brag vests. They looked great, had a lot of room for patches, and had all of those wonderful pockets on the front! As a plus, they are washable!

Oh Lordy! More Pack "rules"! Before you enact this "rule", you should decide what will happen to the poor Cub Scout who is so excited to be marching in a parade he wears his vest, along with his full uniform. Will you send him home in tears? Take his vest away? Drop him from the Pack? Sheesh! This is Cub Scouts - NOT the Army! On the flier telling about the parade, simply request they wear their uniforms, but leave their vest at home. And, if some bad rule breakers come wearing that pesky vest, let them march, show off their accomplishments, and demonstrate to the community what Scouting is all about - having FUN!

"We were told that we could not be chartered by a PTO/PTA because it is illegal (I'm guessing separation of church and state)." There is no separation of church and state here because neither of the organizations (PTO / BSA) are state funded or a church. BSA is recommending that a PUBLIC SCHOOL not be a Chartering Organization because of possible conflicts with the BSA's membership requirements. BSA does not want to put schools, who have been very supportive of the BSA throughout it's almost 100 year history, in any difficult positions. Most units that were chartered by schools, changed their Chartering Organization from the school to the school's PTO. "Also, units should not apply for their own independent tax exempt status." This is correct. A unit does not have any legal status. ALL units are owned by SOME KIND of organization. Someone pays the recharter fee every year. Someone signs all of the paperwork every year. Your PACK is not applying for tax exempt status. The Chartering Organization that OWNS your Pack is. In the case of your Pack, that is the organization called "Parents of XYZ". It is entirely possible that your Pack WAS chartered by the PTA at some point. Then, due to some reason that, at the time, I am sure sounded like a good one, they decided to bring the Pack parents together and form their own Chartering Organization called "Parents of XYZ". You might want to take a trip to your Council offices and have a look at the Charter paperwork for the past 10 years to see EXACTLY what is, and has been, going on. The problem with "Parents of XYZ" CO's, is that decent bookkeeping is never kept, and when the original parents who formed the organization leave, the organization, for all purposes fades away, leaving the unit in limbo with only a vauge notion that they owe more money and have to get someone to sign things each year.

Whenever they are wearing their complete uniform. I would not recommend wearing it to go on a picnic, plant flowers, roll around in the mud, etc. Felt can not be washed and must be dry cleaned. Of course, some families do not mind sending the vest to the cleaners every week so that would be their call.

Gold Winger stated - "I think that this is one place where GSUSA has it over BSA. To earn the Gold Award in GS, you really need to stay active until you are well into high school." Not exactly. The Girl Scout Gold Award is actually a service/leadership award that can only be earned by GSUSA's oldest Scouts (14-18 years old). There are similar awards for other age levels (Silver, 11-14 yo - Bronze, 8-11 yo). Each award requires more time and effort to earn, with the Gold Award requiring the most. These are all stand alone awards. Meaning you do not have to earn the Bronze in order to earn the Silver, and you do not have to earn the Bronze and/or the Silver in order to earn the Gold. It is possible for a girl to join GSUSA in 10th grade and earn the Gold Award before she graduates high school.

"We usually have about 80-90 scouts each year and have been approached by parents who want to make a financial donation to the Pack. Our dues will be $65 per scout next year ($45 for siblings). We also solicit donations for various activities from local businesses." Odds are, all of the people and businesses who give your Pack donations will be expecting to be able to declare those donations on their tax return. Unless you are able to give them your ID # they can not use it as a charitable donation, and they will most likely be a bit upset at your organization. As a corporation you MUST declare these donations as income and pay Federal income tax (state tax laws vary). Being a non-profit would help with this. There are fees that your CO would have to pay, along with the paperwork, but, in my opinion, being a federally recognized not for profit is much better than being a for profit, or getting in trouble with the IRS. "We meet at the elementary school and were told that it is illegal to use the PTA's tax id." Of course it's illegal to use the PTA's tax ID. The PTA is not legaly connected to your Pack in any way at all. Your Pack is owned by the group - Parents of Pack #000. Heck, I shop at Jewel a couple times a week, does that make it legal for me to use their tax ID? (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

We have combined parts of OLSWL & IOLS, & kept other parts separate. It worked rather well. Actually, when we have BALOO, OLSWL, & IOLS all running at the same place, we have combined the food prep and lunch segments for all 3 courses. If your Scout Shop does not carry the OLSWL syllabus, contact National Supply. The contact info is on ScoutStuff.org. The biggest problem we have with the Webelos Outdoor training is getting folks to take it. Since it is not mandatory, few people will take the course. It is truly sad, how many of the courses we have had to cancel due to lask of participants.

My Tiger Den meets every week. It is either a Den meeting, a Go-See-it, or a Pack meeting. The only time we skip a week is for a holiday or special event. I follow the BSA Tiger program, including using Shared Leadership, and tell my Tiger Teams up front what is expected of them. We all work together as they learn about Scouting and have fun. For the past 10 years, I have had no problem retaining Tigers. I usually have 100% of my Tigers return as Wolves. The only exception being families who move away. As a matter of fact, the boys and their parents usually work hard at recruiting new Tigers into their den! I feel you loose boys (at ALL levels, not just Tigers) when you fail to follow the BSA program and when the boys do not have FUN.

Fliers at Pack Meetings E-mail reminders Snail mail reminders Notices in Den newsletters and at Den meetings.

Yes. Tiger Dens are supposed to be run using Shared Leadership. The Den meetings are divided up between the Tiger Teams (Tiger and his Adult Partner). The Team plans and runs the meeting, or outing, with help and encouragement from the Tiger Den Leader. The performance requirement - Contact the host team each month and provide support as needed for one year. - makes perfect sense, as do all of the other requirements in the context of the current Tiger program. (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

It is a response the den you are in at camp will use to respond to their den's name. There is really no way you can prepare in advance as you will have others in your den and you do not know what your den will be called. The camp staff will demonstrate.