ScoutNut

Just to correct the comment by jbblake47 - There is no such thing as a "Varsity Patrol". Per BSA, there are three types of patrols within a Boy Scout Troop - new Scout, regular, and Venture. A Venture Patrol is defined by BSA as - "an optional patrol within the troop made up of Scouts age 13 and older. These troop members have the maturity and experience to take part in more challenging high-adventure outings. The Venture patrol elects a patrol leader, who works with an assistant Scoutmaster to put the patrol's plans into action." A Varsity Scout Team, on the other hand, is a separately chartered BSA unit. Like a Cub Scout Pack, a Boy Scout Troop, or a Venturing Crew (Sea Scout Ships are units that fall in the Venturing Crew category). The adult unit leader is the Varsity Scout Coach. The top youth leader is the Team Captain. The Scouts are formed into squads, within the Team. Varsity Scouting is for boys only, ages 14 - 18 years of age. The program involves five "fields of emphasis" which are Advancement, High Adventure/Sports, Personal Development, Service, and Special Programs/Events. Varsity Scout Teams are mainly chartered by LDS churches for their Young Men ages 14 - 15.

This is the only issue that has any merit. That merit, however, is very limited. Parents have no business keeping any kind of record for their Scout. The Scouts are the ones who are responsible for their own records. The sign-offs in a Scout's Handbook should be made only by the person(s) the SCOUTMASTER has approved to do those sign-offs (see section 4.2.1.2 in the BSA Guide to Advancement). As others have stated - it is WAY PAST time to have a in-depth discussion with your COR (Charter Organization Representative), and get both the Advancement, and Committee, Chairs to start following the BSA program.

This will apply to my oldest as well. Thanks to where his birthday falls, he won't be 11 until August (the same August he will be going into 6th grade.) So if he ranks up that February at our B&G, he will be 10 and 3 months away from completing fifth grade (I see KDD's son is also in the same boat.) I imagine lots of kids are due to what you said (conflicting with the school system.) I was in my first year of college at 17 (never skipped a grade) for the exact same reason. The YOUNGEST a boy can be to join Boy Scouts is 10 years old. To join between 10-11 years of age, the boy MUST have EITHER completed 5th grade - OR - have earned his Arrow Of Light (AOL) as a Webelos Cub Scout. A boy that is BOTH a year, and a grade, behind the rest of his Webelos den will not be able to meet either of those requirements. Scouting is age appropriate. The Boy Scout program is simply not age appropriate for a 9 year old, 4th grader. Just as the Cub Scout Tiger program is not age appropriate for a 5-6 year old kindergartener.

In 17 years of working with Cub Scouts, I have heard very few (if any) complaints about the uniform. The Tigers love it. The older boys tend to get whiney, but then they get whiney about everything as they get older! They still wear their uniforms. The short sleeve Cub shirt isn't really any hotter than a regular shirt, and Cubs have the options of buying shorts, or the zip-off Switchback pants. The problem with Cubs is a lighter weight uniform will not last a week. Especially the pants. Little boys seem to be highly affected by gravity. They spend a good portion of their time on their knees, and/or skidding across floors/sidewalks/etc. You need something extremely sturdy. As others have stated, a Pack t-shirt for active activities is also a viable way to go. Faith - for the slipping neckers, tie a knot, or put a rubber band, under the slide,

While all Scouts (Cub Scouts also) are supposed to live by the Scout Oath, and Law, BSA can not control what it's youth does outside of Scouting activities. I believe this comment was primarily meant for Scouting activities (not what a married couple does at home), and includes all forms of "sexual conduct", including the kind of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" kind of stuff that even older Cub Scouts can get into. It is all about appropriate behavior.

While your District Director (DD) was helping those parents to fill out the BSA Youth Application it would have been a good idea if he, and the parents, had actually read it first. On page 3 of the application there is quite a lot of information that is good for parents to know. Included is a list of membership requirements. "Tiger Cubâ€â€Must be under the age of 8, have completed kindergarten or be in the first grade, or be age 7." To make it even clearer (if it is not clear enough) put the word "AND" in after "Must be under the age of 8". Your DD did a VERY big disservice to these boys. If, by some quirk of computer, these two kindergarteners fall thru the cracks, and are allowed to register, they will NOT be able to cross to Boy Scouts with their brothers. They simply will not be old enough. Odds are the applications for the two kindergarten boys will be rejected by your council registrar. However, just to be sure, I suggest giving the registrar a call TODAY, and explain what happened. Then someone needs to call these parents and tell them their younger sons are NOT going to be registered until they complete kindergarten.

I am a bit confused, you said this was for Day Camp, yet from your comments, it sounds like this is a camp for JUST your Pack. If this is a District Summer Day Camp, then there will be boys from all over attending. There will most likely be many who have never done BB's, or archery (not just the newbies from your Pack and those who missed a campout last year). Even if every single Scout attending the Day Camp has already earned their BB/Archery belt loops, a refresher on the rules before shooting is always a must. Kids forget. Also, if this is a District Day Camp, when you say that the Cubmaster of your Pack is "over camp", do you mean that she is the Day Camp Camp Director, or Program Director? If so, then she should have taken BSA Camp School training. She should know that the firing range is just that, a firing range, and only that. If your Camp Director (CD) wants a nifty way to tie the shooting range to the Day Camp theme I suggest Sir Isaac Newton. First, see if you can get enough lab coats donated for 4 groups of campers. With a typical Day Camp group being 6-8, you would need about 40 lab coats (this includes extras for adult staff). Contact area hospitals, and medical supply stores Make sure you have eye protection for everyone also. Talk to the Program Director about putting a camp station right by the firing range(s). The camp rotation would be to go to the science station first. The boys would receive lab coats, eyewear, and learn about Newton's 3 Laws of Motion. After that they would move to the range (with coats/eyewear), and have fun putting the Laws into practice. After their turn at the range(s) was done they would turn their coats, and eyewear over to the next group at the science station. If you will be running both a BB, and archery range at the same time, you will need enough coats/eyewear for 3 groups at a time (science station-BB-archery). The science station can be named Newton's Laws. The firing range(s) Newton's OutLaws.

Actually you do. It's called popcorn. Your District/Council gets 30% profit from popcorn sales, just as your unit does. How they use that money is up to the financial gurus at your Council. Most Councils expect a Council/District event to pay for itself for the most part. That means that your entrance fees cover your expenses. As most District events have been done before, there is a history to use for cost/attendance estimates. Some councils will give their event organizers a start-up amount. Some do not, and expect the volunteers to pay out-of-pocket, and then get reimbursed after the event. The trick, of course, is to get as much as possible of the stuff that you need for the event donated for free.

As long as the girls are eligible to move to the next level, when they have the actual ceremony is up to the girls (with leader input) themselves. When our girls were younger they liked to do their ceremony in a local park, with a bridge over a stream, a picnic area, and a playground. We usually did this at the end of the school year (May, or early June). As they got older, the girls planned their bridging ceremonies for one of our summer camp outs. As we were told by our girls - ceremonies MUST include a few elements - be outdoors (preferably in the woods), and have fire. Music was OK too, but there had to be fire involved, and a combo of campfire, and candles was perfect!

What JC said in spades! It sounds like your Pack is made up of a bunch of folks who want it all, but don't want to actually DO ANYTHING. They want "Someone Else" to do the work to make the Pack go. It is NOT the job of the CC (or CM) to plan/run Blue & Gold, Pinewood Derby, or campouts. That should all be done by other volunteers (leaders, parents) in the Pack. But wait, there ARE no other folks willing to step up and take on these activities. The CC/CM/COR can only do so much without any help. So some activities fall by the wayside. Training new leaders - Again, this is the job of a Pack Trainer, or your Council/District, not a CC/CM/COR who is already over worked. Perhaps the CC directed the new Tiger leaders to the BSA's online training, and/or your Council/District's in-person training, and they just did not wish to take advantage of any of it. With everything else your Pack wants the CC to do for it, he does not have the time to spoon-feed leaders who are unwilling to do anything for themselves too. Being "forced" into the CM position - A Pack can NOT be rechartered without someone registered as Cubmaster on the charter. A Committee Chair can NOT register as BOTH a CC, AND a CM. It sounds like the CC asked folks to step up as CM, and could get NOBODY to commit. At that point the CC, and COR had 2 choices - 1) Declare the Pack officially dead, and close down completely. 2) Put the name of someone on the charter as CM to give the Pack a bit of a reprieve, and then - hopefully - find someone who will be willing to actually do the job. It seems your CC chose option # 2. Silly him. It sounds like he should have chosen option #1. BTW - it seems like every Council is different in how it handles recharter positions within a unit. My Council is also one of those that does NOT require a brand new application when positions are being changed WITHIN the SAME unit. We are allowed to simply change position titles on the charter at recharter time. The Charter Org signs off on it, and the new charter, with new positions, is a done deal.

Wow, well that turned out looking rather weird. Sorry about that. I would edit it to correct the strange spacing (or try to), but the edit feature does not work.

Smile, and thank the person profusely!

(The comment option does not seem to be working at the moment so I am re-posting as a separate post) Desertrat77 - Just how do you suggest a district "support unit events"? I do not need our district helping me put together our Pack camping trip, our Pack haunted house, our Pack minor league baseball game, etc, etc. We are perfectly capable of doing that on our own. I enjoy attending district Roundtables (and helping at them). They are a great source of program ideas. They are also a great chance to get to know other unit Scouters from my area (and the district volunteers, and professionals, as well). Most district Scouters that I know (myself included) have a very GREAT interest in "what is going on out in the field where "real" scouting takes place". We ARE out in the field. We ARE INVOLVED in 'real" Scouting. Most district volunteers are also volunteering at the unit level. We volunteer at the district level also because we want to help other Scouters, and units, and see that the Scouts in OUR, and other, units get more opportunities to do FUN Scouting stuff. Who are you to tell me what I have, and do not have, time to do? Who are you to tell me where I should, or should not volunteer my time? Stop ignorantly belittling our volunteering efforts. Without district/council level volunteers (like me) you would have no summer camp, no training, no council/district web pages, no special events, etc, etc. In fact, you would have not much of anything, including a council, since much of the basic work of a corporation is done by volunteers (many of whom also still volunteer at their local unit level).

Just how do you suggest a district "support unit events"? I do not need our district helping me put together our Pack camping trip, our Pack haunted house, our Pack minor league baseball game, etc, etc. We are perfectly capable of doing that on our own. I enjoy attending district Roundtables (and helping at them). They are a great source of program ideas. They are also a great chance to get to know other unit Scouters from my area (and the district volunteers, and professionals, as well). Most district Scouters that I know (myself included) have a very GREAT interest in "what is going on out in the field where "real" scouting takes place". We ARE out in the field. We ARE INVOLVED in 'real" Scouting. Most district volunteers are also volunteering at the unit level. We volunteer at the district level also because we want to help other Scouters, and units, and see that the Scouts in OUR, and other, units get more opportunities to do FUN Scouting stuff. Who are you to tell me what I have, and do not have, time to do? Who are you to tell me where I should, or should not volunteer my time? Stop ignorantly belittling our volunteering efforts. Without district/council level volunteers (like me) you would have no summer camp, no training, no council/district web pages, no special events, etc, etc. In fact, you would have not much of anything, including a council, since much of the basic work of a corporation is done by volunteers (many of whom also still volunteer at their local unit level).

First of all, unless your Pack was a one-man-show, with the CM doing it all, including being the de facto den leader for every Cub, there is no reason for the Pack's program to "go down the drain" with the loss of the CM. You claim that being a "one-man-show", or "All-Things-Scouting" is what the CC wants to be. However, from your description, it seems that was exactly what was happening with the CM (you?). As for the CC making himself BOTH Committee Chair (CC), AND Cubmaster (CM) - not possible. BSA registration will not allow it. For a Pack to be chartered, there has to be one (1) REGISTERED Cubmaster, and another, separate, person, REGISTERED as CC. The ONLY person that the BSA computer system will allow to be MULTIPLE REGISTERED in more than ONE position is the Chartered Organization Representative (COR). The COR can be multiple registered as the Committee Chair - OR - a Committee Member - OR - the Parent Coordinator. Also, as long as a Charter Organization (CO) follows the BSA program/rules/regs, the local Council has NO say in how the CO runs it's BSA units. The ONLY time a Council will step in, and interfere with a CO's choice of leaders, is if there is a youth protection problem with the volunteer, or if the volunteer did not pass the BSA background check. A Council can, thru it's Commissioner Service (District level volunteers), mentor a unit. A Commissioner can even (with the permission of the CO) step in and do more hands-on help when there is a critical need. However a Council can NOT tell a CO not to fire one of it's volunteer leaders.

First of all, unless your Pack was a one-man-show, with the CM doing it all, including being the de facto den leader for every Cub, there is no reason for the Pack's program to "go down the drain" with the loss of the CM. You claim that being a "one-man-show", or "All-Things-Scouting" is what the CC wants to be. However, from your description, it seems that was exactly what was happening with the CM (you?). As for the CC making himself BOTH Committee Chair (CC), AND Cubmaster (CM) - not possible. BSA registration will not allow it. For a Pack to be chartered, there has to be one (1) REGISTERED Cubmaster, and another, separate, person, REGISTERED as CC. The ONLY person that the BSA computer system will allow to be MULTIPLE REGISTERED in more than ONE position is the Chartered Organization Representative (COR). The COR can be multiple registered as the Committee Chair - OR - a Committee Member - OR - the Parent Coordinator. Also, as long as a Charter Organization (CO) follows the BSA program/rules/regs, the local Council has NO say in how the CO runs it's BSA units. The ONLY time a Council will step in, and interfere with a CO's choice of leaders, is if there is a youth protection problem with the volunteer, or if the volunteer did not pass the BSA background check. A Council can, thru it's Commissioner Service (District level volunteers), mentor a unit. A Commissioner can even (with the permission of the CO) step in and do more hands-on help when there is a critical need. However a Council can NOT tell a CO not to fire one of it's volunteer leaders.

That fact that you are able to actually start a brand new thread is proof that they are s-l-o-w-l-y getting things fixed. Hang around, talk, and be patient.

There is nothing wrong with a private FB group. That simply means it is open only to members of your Pack. In Cub Scouts that should be only adults. There would only be a problem if your FB page was open to you, and youth members ONLY. For the public part of the page i would leave it with your main Pack info - Charter Org, / contact info for further information. / Council info. You can put that same info on the BSA BeAScout site - [url=https://beascout.scouting.org/]https://beascout.scouting.org/[/url=https://beascout.scouting.org/] . Ask your DE how to update, or add, your pin.

Perhaps your council is simply different from mine. Our DEs do facilitate community, and council resources for their volunteers. Of course some DEs are better at it than others. Training - One of the reasons that BSA instituted the online training was because in-person training was often not attended well due to the large variety of people's schedules. Folks who could not get to in-person, were able to do it, at their own convenience, online. That said, councils still offer in-person training. Perhaps not as often as before, but it is still available. For training like BALOO, often there has to be a minimum number of folks registered to take it in order for it to be financially viable to put on. I have seen training cancelled because only 1 or 2 folks signed up. Keep in mind that you do not have to ONLY attend training in your own district, or council. If a neighboring district, or council, has the training you want, at a time/location that works for you, you can take it there. Make sure to get a completion card from the Course Director. Give a copy to the Secretary at your Council offices and ask that your training records be updated. If you need a training, like BALOO, and can not find it offered ANYWHERE, you should contact your District Training Chair (call your council, or check your district web page for contact info) for help. Program consistency - Training is NOT nonexistent. It is ALWAYS available online. The BSA program itself IS consistent. Everyone is supposed to be following the published BSA program. However, people are not all the same. Some folks just would rather run the John Doe program version. They think their way is easier, better, what has always been done, etc. Also, Charter Organizations are able to make modifications to customize the program for their members. Bottom line - even with 24/7 training there will still be inconsistencies between your Pack, and the Pack down the road. Keep in mind that this is NOT always a bad thing. District run programs - Adding one, or more, paid persons to just handle district programs is an expense that most councils could not justify. If council had to add paid full time staff, the number of events that they could afford to run would be drastically reduced. I suggest that you might find it interesting to attend one of your District's Roundtables, and talk to your DE, and some of the other key District volunteers, there. They might be able to answer your concerns better than I have as they have knowledge specific to your District/Council. Happy Scouting!

What parts of the DE's job would you like to eliminate? Fundraising? Are you willing to pay annual dues to not only BSA National, but to your council as well? Are you willing to pay out of your own pocket when your council camps need a new well system? Are you willing to pay the electric bill at your council offices for one month? How about the mortgage/rent/taxes on the council's properties? Yes, BSA, and its councils are non-profit, but that does not mean that they do not need money to run. As for FOS, in our council, the DEs rarely go to B&G's to do a FOS pitch. That particular "fun" job is left to the FOS chair of the District Finance Committee (a volunteer), or to someone in the unit itself. Nasty, but necessary. With out FOS donations there might not be any council summer camp for your son to attend. At least not in your council. How about membership? Would you like your DE to stop helping new units get started? Of course, if the DE is not marketing the BSA, and its program, to area organizations, and businesses, there probably would not be a need for new units. Training in our council is also done by volunteers. Our DE helps the District Training Chair (a volunteer) to coordinate dates with other districts, and get any resources needed from both council, and the community. Program is up to the individual units, NOT your district. It is up to your unit to figure out how to offer it's Scouts a "better and more consistent", "more exciting program", NOT your DE. If you need help contact the appropriate volunteer group in your District - the Commissioner Service. So a list of what EXACTLY you think a DE should NOT do - and a list of EXACTLY what you think a DE SHOULD do might help to clarify your thinking for me.

If councils had to pay salaries, and benefits, for people to do all of the things that volunteers do now at a district/council level, councils would either go broke, or start charging outrageous amounts for the smallest things. Those DEs would have to work even longer hours than they already do because the fundraising amounts they would be required to meet would be tripled! Yes, longtime Scouters with grown kids, and those who are retired, do volunteer (for BOTH their council, and their unit). However, there are many folks out there in your district/council who are married, work full time, have multiple kids (all in Scouting), volunteer their time in multiple organizations, and STILL manage to find the time to volunteer for district/council level stuff.

The DE position is mainly a Marketing/PR position. They raise money, and members/units, for the council. They do not PROVIDE/RUN district program or activities. They help FACILITATE them. VOLUNTEERS do most of the actual hands on work, and that is how it SHOULD be. There is no need for a DE to attend unit meetings. In the 20 or so years I was with our Pack I think our DE attended only 1 unit meeting, and he was invited to that one. If your unit needs help, you go to your Unit Commissioner (volunteer). If your UC needs further help for your unit he goes to the District Commissioner (or an Asst Dist Commis) (both volunteers). If the DC needs council's help for your UC to help your unit, he goes to the DE (paid council person). 1) Training - DE's are not trainers. Volunteers train the volunteers. A DE can use his community contacts to help get meeting facilities, and equipment. 2) Roundtable - Again DE's are not trainers. Roundtables are run by the Commissioner staff - all VOLUNTEERS. The DE will be at the Roundtable to talk about district/council stuff. The DE helps the Roundtable staff with any resources they might find they need, including finding meeting space. 3) District wide events - All run by VOLUNTEERS, with the DE providing council help with activity space and resources. The MAIN job of the DE is that of marketing/fundraising/PR. They raise money, and members, for the council. They FACILITATE activities that are VOLUNTEER run. They are the volunteer's council contact point person. Yes, most of us volunteers are spread thin. However, many of us realize that if we want that extra BALOO training, or that district PWD, or that Cub Fun day, that we can not just sit around and expect the Scouting Fairy to magically provide them for us. We have to do it ourselves. So we go to Roundtables, talk to other volunteers, talk to DE's, and volunteer more of our time to help get it done. The DE can help, but it is the VOLUNTEER that does the work. The DE is, after all, only 1 person. That one person is often spread quite thin themselves. If you want district/council level activities than you find a way to volunteer your time at BOTH the unit, and district/council level.

I believe that in most states it is against the law to bring ANY kind of knife (locking, non-locking) onto public school grounds. However, if you meet in a private school, after hours, and have permission from the school, you should be fine. Our Pack, and Troop, have met in a church school building for over 50 years, and never had a problem.

As others have stated the buck stops at the Charter Organization. If the COR wants the CM gone, the CM is gone. There does not need to be any discussion, or voting. The CM is simply told by the COR his services are no longer needed. If the COR supports the CM, than no matter what the Committee, or any of the parents want, the CM stays. The only ones who can override a COR are the IH (Institutional Head of the Charter Org), and the Council Scout Exec (only for youth protection reasons).