ScoutNut

It would also be a good idea to be constantly refreshing, and reinforcing, the Bobcat requirements all during the year. Repetition is the best way for these things to eventually become second nature to the boys, and their parents. The Promise, Law, Motto, and Sign can be incorporated into your den meeting openings and closings. The Handshake is a natural to be included in award ceremonies. When they do something, take a bit and talk about how the Promise and/or Law apply to the situation. Next month talk about what will be happening with the 5th grade Webelos, how the meaning of WeBeLoS fits in, and what they have to look forward to as they get older. Learning is an ongoing process.

Sanddude - Who is telling you that the boys have to "prove" themselves in front of the entire Pack in order to get their badge? Was this done with the rest of the boys who have already received Bobcat? I would talk to whoever is putting together the ceremony and tell them NO, plain and simple. Embarrassing Cubs is NOT one of the Purposes of Cub Scouting. The boys have already earned the award. The point of an award ceremony is to recognize them in front of their friends and families. A repeat after me version of the Promise and Law is fine to incorporate into the ceremony. Having the Tiger Partner give their Tiger the Handshake after pinning on their award is great. REQUIRING these things in order to be handed the award is wrong. The standard of "Do Your Best", and parents as Akela, can be found in the Introductory Guide in the front of your Tiger Handbook. It can also be found in the Cub Scout Leader Book.

Cub Scout Summer Camp is a LOT different from a Boy Scout Merit Badge College, or Boy Scout Summer Camp. Cub Scouts are generally NOT there on their OWN. They do not move about the activities independently, each boy following his own schedule with the adults sitting at a campsite, or at the waterfront doing their own thing. Packs generally do not sign up as a group with all of the boys, and only the registered leaders and a parent or two along. Many Cub Scout resident camps are 1:1, boy:parent ratio. The parents are paying $100+ to go with their son to Summer Camp. Of the families that go to Summer Camp, only a small percentage are Leaders and their sons. And again, they are there to spend time WITH THEIR SON, not go to training. In my council BALOO costs $10, NLE is $2, Cub Specific is $5, Youth Protection is free online. Why on earth would I pay $100+, and give up time with my son, to take trainings that would cost me $20? On top of all of that, you are asking District trainers to volunteer to spend weeks of their summer at Cub Scout Camp. It is hard enough getting trainers for a few hours in the evening, much less for weeks in the summer.

"My understanding is that it was investigated by the child abuse agency and it was founded and he was placed on the child abuse registry." This is easily verified as most states have online registries that anyone can check. Usually if the abuse is against their own child, the abuser is denied access to the child by the authorities. IF this is true, why has the mother left her son under her husband's care in Scouting? Why have the authorities? I can't help but wonder - Is this, by any chance, the same man who you wrote about in September? The one who you were trying to have removed from the Troop for having a "romantic relationship" with another married leader?

As of April, 2003, BSA has required background checks to be done on all new leaders. Starting this past June, BSA contacted leaders by letter who, for whatever reason, had not filled in a new adult application since April 2003, and so had never had a background check done. They were required to give BSA their SS# for a background check. If they declined to give out their SS#, they were dropped from their units recharter list. NancyB, if this abuse was documented, and/or prosecuted, AFTER this man became a leader, and had his background checked, then there would have been no way for this to have shown up. From what you have stated, this abuse has already been reported to the authorities, and acted upon by them. Therefore, there is nothing to "report". What you are concerned about is this man continuing as a leader in your unit. Talk to the head of your Charter Organization - ONLY. You do not need to involve anyone else in the Pack. Tell them what you know, and how you know it. It is THEIR call weather to relieve this man of his leadership or not.

I am unclear why you are concerned with what service star to present to boys who have already crossed to a Troop back in September. If you did not give them anything then, at this point it is up to their Troop. For the boys crossing in February, if the Troop they are going into gives out service stars at the end of the year, then it is up to the Troop to give them their star. If they do not, then you can present it to them when they cross over. I would count this year (2008-2009) as a whole year for all of the boys crossing in February.

It does not matter if you are considered a youth in OA. It matters what you are REGISTERED in BSA as. Being a member of OA is NOT a registered position. While you were 18-21 years old, what position were you REGISTERED in? If it was as a youth member of a Venturing Crew/Ship, than you can wear the youth backing. If it was in an adult leadership position of some sort, than you would wear the adult backing.

"beliefs are not always correct" On this one only Bob, I do agree with you.

You are planning on a 4 OR 5 mile hike, with a full backpack, and in mountains? With WEBELOS and their PARENTS? Have any of these boys, much less their parents, ever done ANY backpacking at all? Do they have the equipment? Do they have the skills? How much camping of any kind have these people done? Wherever you end up camping, it MUST be approved for CUB SCOUT camping. I don't know of any backpack campsites that are approved for CUB SCOUTS. Your best bet would be to contact the BSA Council that covers that area and get a list of CUB APPROVED campsites from them.

Bob, as I have repeated TWICE now, the YOUTH PROTECTION policy that I SAW that was not followed was "proper clothing required". From the article that I read (possibly a different one than you read as it was covered by various sources) the LEADERS were QUOTED as saying they were told that the officials DID NOT WANT THEM WEARING THEIR SCOUT SHIRTS. The LEADERS were QUOTED as saying that no one would know they were Scouts if they did not wear their Scout shirts, so they wore them anyway. Comments on the article went on to state that the officials did not want them wearing the shirts for SAFETY REASONS. At the very least, the boys could have been better prepared for what to expect. As one boy was QUOTED as saying, he knew it would be cold, he did NOT know it would hurt. BTW - Skinny dipping was only an EXAMPLE used. Please tell me where it states that "Appropriate Attire" means simply clothing while swimming. If you look at the online YPT you will see that the "Policy Exercise" used for the "Appropriate Attire" policy has nothing to do with swimming. Bob, you are entitled to your belief that all safety precautions were taken. However, I too, am entitled to my belief that there could have been better safety precautions taken for these Cub Scouts.

"You are fabricating facts that are not in evidence." I did not realize that we had to present "evidence". However I did not "fabricate" anything. Rather than simply going by the original news story posted, I DID do more research of other online stories. The comments I made were based, AS I STATED, on a story ran in the Minneapolis Star Tribune. Yes, it DOES appear that many precautions were taken. However - "they are wearing appropriate apparel for the activity" Again, AS I STATED, based on the story, and comments, that appeared in the online story from the Minneapolis Star Tribune, they were NOT wearing "appropriate apparel for the activity". That, again, AS I STATED, was the basis for my comments that they broke some YP policies. If the leaders had been LESS concerned with making sure they were identified as Scouts, and MORE concerned with the boys themselves, I would have been more accepting. However, after reading other news items, my feeling is that they were down right lucky none of the boys had any lasting problems.

From BSA "Fact Sheets" - "BSA at a Glance" : "Cub Scouts is a year-round family- and home-centered program that develops ethical decision-making skills for boys in the second through fifth grade (or who are 8, 9, and 10 years old). Activities emphasize character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. Webelos Scouts is a year-round family- and home-centered program that develops ethical decision-making skills for fourth- and fifth-grade (or 10-year-old) boys. Boy Scouting. A year-round program for boys 11 through 17 designed to achieve the aims of Scouting through a vigorous outdoor program and peer group leadership with the counsel of an adult Scoutmaster. (Boys also may become Boy Scouts if they have earned the Cub Scouting Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old.) Varsity Scouting. An active, exciting, year-round program for young men 14 through 17 built around five program fields of emphasis: advancement, high adventure, personal development, service, and special programs and events. Venturing. A year-round program for young men and women who are 14 (and have completed the eighth grade) through 20 years of age to provide positive experiences through exciting and meaningful youth-run activities that help them pursue their special interests, grow by teaching others, and develop leadership skills." Some other explanations - Varsity Scouts, which used to be mainly sports oriented, is used mostly by LDS Charter Organizations (which uses BSA Scout programs as a part of their church youth training). Sea Scouting is a division/type of Venturing that has nautical activities as their area of specialization. They are referred to as a Ship, rather than a Crew, and can wear a uniform specific to Sea Scouts. A Post is a Learning For Life (a BSA subsidiary) Explorer unit. Exploring is a co-ed work site based, career education program that gives youth age 14-20, hands on career experiences. Some of the more popular Posts are Police, Fire, and aviation.

Actually there were 2 (similar) Youth Protection policies that were ignored. 1) Proper preparation for high adventure activities - "Activities with elements of risk should never be undertaken without proper preparation, equipment, clothing, supervision, and safety measures." 2) Appropriate attire - "Proper clothing for activities is required." It seems, from an article in the Minneapolis Start Tribune, that the event organizers did not want them wearing their Scout shirts because of the risk involved of the shirts holding the icy water against their skins, and freezing solid. The recommended Plunge Wear is something tight fitting like a wet suit. However, the Pack's leaders wanted everyone to know that they were Scouts, so they had the boys, and the leaders, wear their Scout shirts anyway.

"Have another room for sibings-or use a divider for the room." Can't say I agree with that. Then you have to have babysitters and other activities to keep them busy. Pack meetings are a time for the Pack families to come together, to celebrate the successes of their Scouts, and have FUN, together. The families should be taking care of their own siblings.

Mafaking posted - "At first you would glance over the facts and think four POR's Life to Eagle OK" Where do you get 4 POR's? From mmhardy's post - "Then AS LIFE SCOUT took position as Scribe then Troop Guide during his tenure." That is 2, not 4, POR's. No "riddle" here. Both Scribe and Troop Guide are acceptable POR's for the rank of Eagle. As long as the Scout served a COMBINED time of 6 months between the two, he is fine.(This message has been edited by scoutnut)

Actually, each of the example games, Eagle Golf and Beanbag Archery, have complete instructions for play directly under their names in the Wolf Handbook. Eagle Golf- "Take turns dropping beans straight down into a small tin can. Each time a bean goes into the can is 1 point. To win, you must get as many points as you are old before the other players do." As Bob states, your son does not have to do either of the examples. He can make any kind of game he wishes for this achievement. However, HE has to MAKE the game himself.

The entire site has been dumped, and a new one that seems to be an "official" BSA site has been created. http://scoutparents.org/ With the BSA Scouting Community online now, there is really no need for a specific forum at the Scout Parents site. Also, I doubt BSA wants the hassle of monitoring/policing a forum like that.

"For all I know the Council has no idea things are so bad here and that there is a problem. Maybe they just need a gentle reminder (the kind only a wife can give) that this is not okay and things need to change if they expect the programs to help the kids." Oh they know all right. One of the things you will learn at Camp School is that all Council Summer Camps, including Day Camps, have a set of criteria they are expected to meet. One of those criteria is that there be a professional council rep at the Day Camp. Another, is that the Camp is to be inspected, and graded, by the Council. You should ask to see the inspection report from last year's Day Camp. It might prove to be interesting.

Accepting late registrations can be a double edged sword. Yes, you do not want to turn away kids. But how do you plan when you have no idea how many to plan for? You have enough supplies for games, crafts, and food for 100 campers. Great! What do you do when you have boys sign up right before camp and end up with 150? You have to see if you can come up with additional supplies, often blowing the camp budget out of the water in the process. Then you have to re-work all of the groups, making them bigger. Or add an extra group, and then have to re-work the entire camp schedule. You start planning NOW for summer camp, and you MUST have some idea of the number of campers to plan for. We look at what our camp numbers have been for the last few years and then pad it a bit. We have a registration end date, and that is what we publish, and push. At the end of registration, we look at the numbers to see how close we are. If we still have supplies for more campers, we will take late registrations. Usually this is not a problem. However - We do NOT announce that we will take late registrations. If we did no one would register on time, and we would be up a creek!

We have never asked the Cubs to choose the meals at our Pack campouts. We ask parents to list allergies on the health form we require. We also ask them to list on the permission slip any foods that their kids absolutely can not, or will not, eat. Then the adults planning the campouts decide on the menus. Families are not allowed to bring extra snacks and keep them in their tents. Parents are not allowed to make a Mickey D run. Everyone eats what is there. If there is something they don't particularly like, they simply eat more of the stuff they do like. We usually have lots of food and no one has ever gone hungry. Once the kids get out hiking and playing outside all day, they are hungry, and would eat just about anything, and think it was wonderful!

Advertise for Camp Staff at Boy Scout Roundtable. Great for service hours. Contact your local OA Lodge. OA and Cub Camp goes hand in hand.

I never heard of a District doing a fundraiser for Day Camp expenses. What kind of fundraiser would it be and who would be doing it? We received contribution letters from our DE, and were encouraged to solicit donations of materials. These would be considered District FOS donations. Our District did have a Day Camp budget, but for the most part it was on a reimbursement basis. Which means you fronted the money and got reimbursed when you turned in receipts. One idea that you should look into now is the Society for Creative Anachronism. http://www.sca.org/ See if you can find a group in your area who would be willing to come out and do a presentation. They get very busy in the summer with festivals so the sooner you contact them the better.

You do not so much work UNDER the CD, as you work WITH her. You also work with your DE. When you say the Day Camp is "very run down", how do you mean that? Are the facilities old and in disrepair? Why has the attendence been bad? Has your Pack (if you are a member of one) attended in the past? Did they attend last year? If not why not? You need to contact your DE about Camp School as soon as possible. While you are talking to your DE, ask about setting up a meeting with the CD, and DE, to start fielding ideas, starting with the overall theme.

"Our pack and troop has rang, proudly in uniform and with Council knowledge, for Salvation Army for as long as I can remember." "You had a choice of helping the Salvation Army without violating BSA policies. You simply chose not to." Schiff might not have been violating any BSA policy. From the BSA Insignia Guide - "The official uniforms are intended primarily for use in connection with Scouting activities as defined by the national Executive Board, and their use may be approved by the local council executive board for council events or activities under conditions consistent with the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America." Similar wording is found in the Guide to Unit Money-Earning Projects. Schiff states that they have worn their uniforms "WITH COUNCIL KNOWLEDGE". This means that their use was most likely approved by his local council executive board, as stipulated in the BSA rules and regulations. Firecat - You stated that you could not find any email address to contact BSA National. Have you looked thru the National web site lately? http://www.scouting.org/ They have made it VERY easy to contact the SPECIFIC area that you have questions on. If you look at the top of the home page you will see tabs for different divisions (Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venturing, Youth Protection, Scouting Safely, International, Information Center). If you click on each tab, you will see at the top where you can print the page, subscribe to the BSA media feeds, or send an email to that specific division. For your particular questions I would recommend the email link on the Information Center tab, or on one of the sections under the Information Center such as Organizational Identity, or Insignia Guide.

I'm not sure why you think that a theme for the evening would add time? If you decorate the tables and the meeting place, why is it harder to do it in a theme than just to put any old stuff together. How does it add significant time to a presentation to use a theme for the ceremony instead of simply a baggie and a handshake? By it's very description, Blue & Gold already has a theme. It is the recognition of birthdays. Of BSA in general (2/8), Cub Scouting in particular (2/10), and also those of Robert Baden-Powell and his wife Olave (2/22). So use a birthday theme if you can't think of anything else. All preparation should be done before the actual meeting. Hit your local $1 Store and get birthday decorations. Wrap up awards as birthday presents. Sing Happy Birthday to BSA. If you are taking an hour to present 10 boys with their AOL and cross them to a Troop you are taking WAY to long. With a fancy OA Indian Ceremony, it took us less than 20 min to present, and cross over, 12 Webelos.