ScoutNut

It is not really up to you or the Webelos Den leader to decide that the boy will NEVER join Boy Scouts. It is up to his parents, and even then, they might change their mind at some point in the future. YOU can not tell. The requirement is simply to visit a Troop they THINK they MIGHT like to join. NOT one they WILL join, not one they will/might join in the next WEEK, or MONTH, or even YEAR. IT says NOTHING AT ALL about actually JOINING any Troop. If they visited a Boy Scout Troop, had a talk to the SM, and the parents signed off on the requirement, the Webelos has "DONE HIS BEST" (he is STILL a CUB SCOUT) and completed the requirement. That's it as far as BSA is concerned. Don't add to the requirements. Give them their AOL proudly.

>> " I feel that it was only 1 more activity badge than was required for arrow of light, so why not." >> HUH?? To earn the Webelos Badge and AOL you need to earn a total of 8 Activity Badges. That leaves 12 - NOT 1 - more to earn in order to receive a Super Achiever/Heavy Shoulder patch for earning all 20.

I find it interesting that you know so much about her personal business, including when, and where, she "dumps" her son, and how much he knows. The CM's love life, or lack of it, are no business of either you or the SE. The former CC's wife seems to have no problem with this women driving her husband back to CO, why do you? It is entirely possible she plans on being back in time to attend B&G. Stop spreading gossip. Make sure the Asst CM is lined up for B&G in case the CM does not get back in time.

My council still does a coordinated Scouting For Food in May. We do it in conjunction with the USPS Letter Carriers food drive. We also put out bags on one weekend, and pick up the food the next. However, any food we miss gets picked up by the letter carrier. This works out great because we are helping fill food pantries, and helping out our local letter carriers at the same time! I must say though, every year I try to get more from my Pack involved, and every year it is my Tigers who are out there working on their own. Last year my 3 Tigers were exhausted when they were done. I was so proud of them. Both for bag hand out, and food pick up, as we walked the neighborhood, they had extra bags that they filled with trash they picked up along the way. The best part was it was entirely their own idea! The first weekend the boys just started picking up trash, and dropping it in available trash cans, as we walked over to our assigned area. The next weekend they came armed with grocery bags for their trash pick-up. Needless to say, I gave them all a "Scout Spirit" award at our next Pack meeting! As a Pack we also do service. Our biggest one is a Haunted House Foodraiser we put on every year for our church's food pantry. Others are smaller, and are usually helping with projects for our CO (church) such as working with the Garden Group for spring and fall cleanup and planting. We also have never logged our hours in GTA.

My first question, whenever I hear about TIGERS behaving badly at their meetings, is - Where the heck are their Tiger Adult Partners!? Tiger Partners should be sitting/standing/hopping/singing RIGHT NEXT to their Tiger Scout. They should be working WITH their Tiger on all crafts, sitting NEXT to him. They should be doing the opening flag ceremony WITH their Tiger, standing NEXT to him. They should be doing the Cub Scout Sign & saying the Cub Scout Promise WITH their Tiger, standing NEXT to him. They should be playing games WITH their Tiger, as a TEAM. They should be going up and down, while singing the "Grand Old Duke of York" WITH their Tiger. When a Tiger starts acting up at a Tiger den meeting, the FIRST PERSON to correct him should be his Tiger Partner! Those adults are not there just to sit in a corner together and chat. They can go to Starbucks and do that. I am assuming that by now they have all earned Bobcat. If so, then they already know a Scouting device that is used to foster good behavior. A hint - it looks like wolf ears that are QUIETLY listening hard for Akela. Yep, it's the Cub Scout Sign. A den Code of Conduct, and a behavior jar, are great things. However, I feel they are needed more starting in their Wolf year when their parents are not by their side all of the time. If you do make a Tiger Code of Conduct, make sure you get input from the Scouts. Without their input it will not be THEIRS. It will be YOURS. Remember this is Scouts, not school. Just as a frame of reference - I have been a Tiger den leader for 11 years now. My dens have ranged from 14 to 2. I have had some boys who were so shy, they hid under the table and held on to their Partners leg for most of the meeting. I have also had boys who could only stay still for 3 minutes at a time (once I had an entire den of 6 boys like that!). In all of that time I have never had to put a Code of Contact in place, or use a behavior jar. We talk about Doing Our Best, what it means to Help Other People, and to Give Goodwill. I have used the Scout Sign often. I have also gone up to a boy, put my hand on his shoulder, taken the ball/ruler/whatnot from his hand, and walked him over to his Partner. Boys are usually most nutsy during the gathering period, waiting for everyone to arrive. Make sure you have activities for them to do. Usually, coloring or puzzle pages work well. If you have a Boy Scout Den Chief helping you, he can lead them in a quiet game. My guys this year are an active bunch, and love to play with a ball, making up the rules as they go. Whatever they are doing, when the flag comes out, they know the den meeting is starting and they need to get over to their Partner for the Opening. During the meeting, if they all start getting antsy, I know it is time to change up what they are doing. I will pull out a silly song, move the tables for a game, or go outside for a game or to pick up litter. Anything that gets them up and moving around for a bit.

The National theme for this month is American ABC's. We decided to narrow the focus to our state, so it will be Illinois ABC's. I am having a bit of a problem coming up with a nifty rank ceremony in theme though.

Why does an ASM have the only contact info list? You state you are trying to get the Troop to boy-led. Why does an adult have to call parents for a meeting? Why not simply announce at a meeting that they boys must bring at least one parent to the next meeting, and let the boys tell their parents? Where is your Charter Organization in all of this?

I am not sure what criteria BSA uses. Does it really matter? We can not change it if we do not like how they do it. We can, of course, always choose not to be members. Remember no background check is 100% infallible. If a criminal has never been caught he will never get bumped by a background check. The first line of defense we have is the Adult Application. The Charter Org Rep, or whoever checks, and approves the applications, should be checking those references provided. They should also have at least a passing knowledge of the person. If BSA's background check turns up anything that is not an automatic NO, it is not something that they announce from the rooftops to any who wish to know. It is PRIVATE. The prospective volunteer is contacted by the council, and has the opportunity to speak to the council about what was found. Then the decision is made weather or not to accept the membership. The only other one who might be told about the problem, and possibly brought in for input, would be the CO.

Dan, as a Wolf Den Leader the problem in the Webelos den is not yours to solve, and the actions of the Webelos Scout are not yours to question. Even if he has asked you for help, the Webelos Den Leader should be, QUIETLY, working this out with the Webelos and his family, and the CM. Possibly the CC and COR if they decide to take this further (hopefully that will not be the case). Opening a 10 year old child up to gossip and censure is just wrong. The bottom line is that in Cub Scouts, even for a Webelos, the religious requirements are the sole responsibility of the parents. For a family that has no "official" religious affiliation, the parent is considered the boys "religious leader". If the parents state that their Webelos has "done his best", and requirement #8E has been completed, than that, as the saying goes, is that. It is wrong to second guess it, and wrong to question, at this point, what the boy has meant for the last 4.5 years when saying the Promise.

Our Pack gives every Webelos their new loops and the Boy Scout Handbook. The Troop gives them their necker at their first COH We have discussed only giving the Handbook to those boys who we knew for certain were going to go on into Boy Scouts. But, how do you know FOR SURE what a boy will do? In the end we decided that we had no real way to know who would stick to Boy Scouts and who would not. Some might fill out a transfer application, and then never show up at a Troop meeting. Others might decide later that they wanted to give it a try. So, we decided the chance to get/keep a boy interested in Boy Scouts was worth the cost of the Handbook. Everyone crosses, and everyone receives a Handbook and shoulder loops.

Is the SM willing to loose potential Scouts over the price of a scarf and shoulder loops? Our Pack gives every Webelos their new loops and the Boy Scout Handbook. The Troop gives them their necker at their first COH. We have discussed only giving the Handbook to those boys who we knew for certain were going to go on into Boy Scouts. In the end we decided that we had no real way to know who would stick to Boy Scouts and who would not. Some might fill out a transfer application, and then never show up at a Troop meeting. Others might decide later that they wanted to give it a try. So, we decided the chance to get/keep a boy interested in Boy Scouts was worth the cost of the Handbook. Encourage your Webelos to consider other Troops.

You want to know about the structure of the Pack Committee, who does what, and how it runs, I suggest you start here - http://www.scouting.org/Applications/MyScoutingFull.aspx Register, and then go to the E-Learning site. Take Cub Scout Pack Committee Fast Start Training, along with Youth Protection. Then find out from your council when the next New Leader Essentials, and Cub Scout Leader Specific training will be, and sign up. In the meantime you can check out this section on the Pack Committee at the BSA National site - http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/aboutcubscouts/thepack/pcomm.aspx As you will learn in your training, the monthly Pack Leaders meeting is run by the CC, in conjunction with the CM, and all Pack Committee members and den leaders attend. Den leaders take information back to their dens. A Pack newsletter (either hard copy, e-newsletter, or both for those who do not have the internet) works well. This can be created, and updated by the Pack Secretary. Any last minute changes should be transmitted to the den leaders to be transmitted to their den families. You said you have Scout Mate, but have had no training on it. As far as I know there is no formal training for any of the Pack management programs. You simply get on, poke around, and start using it. There are quite a few folks who like Scout Mate. The major problem I have with that program is that the site owners are no longer supporting the BSA side of the program. It is still out there, but no updates or changes are being made. PackMaster has quite a loyal following. Troopmaster was one of the first programs, and many Troop use that program. It's one major drawback IMO is that you must purchase a CD disc and the program must be loaded onto any computer that will be using the program. Scout Track and Scout Manage are both online based programs that do not need anything to be downloaded on a computer in order to be used. You simply go online and login. Both programs can have the parents go online to mark off their son's completed requirements. We use Scout Manage. It includes a calendar program that will e-mail the appropriate people before the event as a reminder. It includes an online blog area where you can leave notes for members of the Pack, or ask questions. It also has a sort of home page interface that is nice. With all of these programs you can have a free trial period to see how you like it.

I think that there could be another problem here. How old will this boy boy be in a few weeks when your B&G rolls around? If he has not been a Webelos for 6 months since becoming 10 years old, it does not matter if he has completed all of the other AOL requirements, he can NOT earn AOL. If he will not be 11 years old at B&G, then he can NOT cross to boy Scouts without having earned his AOL. It sounds like the mother wants the "Boy Scout-oriented outdoor activity" requirement to be done AFTER the boy is already a Boy Scout? That is not possible. There is a very good chance this boy will not be crossing to Boy Scouting just yet.

I would sit down with the CM, COR, & Webelos Den Leader, and find out just exactly what is going on, and what his problem is. Remind him he is NOT a lone den. He is part of a PACK that is OWNED by your Charter Org. Let him know that if they want to have an in-den celebration that is fine. You can let them have the AOL pocket cards for their ceremony. However I would remind them that the awards & celebration are for the BOYS - NOT the adults. I would also stress that after 4.5 years of work, the BOYS deserve to be recognized by the ENTIRE Pack, so they will receive their awards at the B&G. I pity the Troop that gets this Den Leader and the other parents. I would give them a friendly heads up that they are inheriting unruly infants disguised as adults.

From the Guides to Unit Money-Earning Projects (on the back of the Unit Money-Earning Permit Application) - "If a commercial product is to be sold, will it be sold on its own merits and without reference to the needs of Scouting? All commercial products must sell on their own merits, not the benefit received by the Boy Scouts. The principle of value received is critical in choosing what to sell." "If a commercial product is to be sold, will the fund-raising activity comply with BSA policy on wearing the uniform? The official uniform is intended to be worn primarily for use in connection with Scouting activities. However, council executive boards may approve use of the uniform for any fund-raising activity." Fill out the Money-Earning Permit Application, and on it request approval from your council to wear your uniforms. If they approve it, and give their consent for your Scouts to sell in uniform than you are fine. If they approve the fundraiser, but do not approve the wearing of uniforms, then your Scouts may sell the pizzas, but in "street clothes" only, not in BSA Scout uniform.

We have discussed doing "big" events/trips, and have decided they are just to costly. The zoo, museum, battleship, overnights while fun, are pricey. Some of the Pack activities we do are - Kite fly Bike hike Fishing derby Hay ride w/weenie roast Reenactment (Revolutionary War, Voyaguer, etc) River clean-ups Pack camping Rocket shoot Picnic Day hike Hockey game Minor League baseball game District Day Camp Council Summer Camp

Bearshark, Have all the Webelos in the the den already committed to your Troop? Are there other Troops in the area? Is the Pack & den planning on crossing all of the Webelos out of the Pack in March, no matter what? Your Troop has put you, as Webelos to Scout Liaison ASM, and your son, as Webelos Den Chief, in a rather bad position. If this is true, it sounds like the Troop wants you & your son to be the fall guys to tell the den they can not become Boy Scouts (at least with your Troop) until the end of May. Before you go off the deep end here on 2nd hand, said something to the fact, information, put your personal issues with your CC aside, and have a friendly chat with him & the SM together, and find out EXACTLY is going on. If in fact, they do not want the Webelos in March when they plan to cross over, you need to explain to them both that the Troop will probably loose these new Scouts. If they will not change, there is not a whole lot you can do. Personally, if my son was the Den Chief, I would encourage him, to encourage his den and it's leader, to look at more Troops NOW.

webs is not an abbreviation. Neither is webelo. WEBELOS, on the other hand IS ALREADY an abbreviation. It is an acronym. I find abbreviating abbreviations rather irritating. But, hey, that's just me.

The requirements for AOL have nothing to do with your Troop, your CC, or the question here. AOL is a CUB SCOUT award, and a Boy Scout Troop has no say in how/when it is awarded. The question here seems to be the Boy Scout joining requirements. The Youth application states - "Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old, or is age 11, or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18." Pretty cut and dried. Unless the Scouts in question are all 9.5 years old (in which case they DO have 6 months until they are 10 and can join a Troop), the CC is incorrect. If he makes these Scouts wait 6 months for no reason, he will most likely loose them to another Troop, or to Scouting altogether. Hopefully their den leader will encourage them to seek out other Troops. Considering your history with the CC, is it possible you are misconstruing what is going on here? BTW - webs are things built by spiders. Cub Scouts in 4th and 5th grade are WEBELOS.

From "What is a Wood Badge Ticket" From the Wood Badge web site - "A ticket is a contract between you and a member of the staff usually referred to as a Troop Guide or Ticket Counselor. This contract is your commitment to practice using the Leadership Skills taught at Wood Badge in the performance of your Scouting job." "The purpose of a Wood Badge Ticket is to help you realize your personal vision of your role in Scouting. Ideally, you will write your ticket around your primary job in Scouting. Parts of a Ticket A Ticket Consists of Four Parts: A list of your personal values A description of your Scouting role or job A statement of your vision of success A mission composed of five significant goals that can be attained within 18 months." http://www.woodbadge.org/WB21/wb21ticket.htm Why would you want to take Wood Badge - "As a result of attending Wood Badge, participants will be able to View Scouting globally, as a family of interrelated, values-based programs that provide age-appropriate activities for youth. Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values-based movement. Apply the skills they learn from their participation as a member of a successful working team. Revitalize their commitment by sharing in an overall inspirational experience that helps provide Scouting with the leadership it needs to accomplish its mission on an ongoing basis." For a humorous look at Wood Badge Tickets, check out this video by some of my council's crazy Training Staff Volunteers -

From "What is a Wood Badge Ticket" From the Wood Badge web site - "A ticket is a contract between you and a member of the staff usually referred to as a Troop Guide or Ticket Counselor. This contract is your commitment to practice using the Leadership Skills taught at Wood Badge in the performance of your Scouting job." "The purpose of a Wood Badge Ticket is to help you realize your personal vision of your role in Scouting. Ideally, you will write your ticket around your primary job in Scouting. Parts of a Ticket A Ticket Consists of Four Parts: A list of your personal values A description of your Scouting role or job A statement of your vision of success A mission composed of five significant goals that can be attained within 18 months." http://www.woodbadge.org/WB21/wb21ticket.htm Why would you want to take Wood Badge - "As a result of attending Wood Badge, participants will be able to View Scouting globally, as a family of interrelated, values-based programs that provide age-appropriate activities for youth. Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values-based movement. Apply the skills they learn from their participation as a member of a successful working team. Revitalize their commitment by sharing in an overall inspirational experience that helps provide Scouting with the leadership it needs to accomplish its mission on an ongoing basis." For a humorous look at Wood Badge Tickets, check out this video by some of my council's crazy Training Staff Volunteers -

Major Cub events. Well they rather depend on what your individual Pack does. However some of the highlights could be - Pinewood Derby Blue & Gold End of year Graduation Pack Camping trips Summer Camp (Resident and Day) Your son should attend his weekly den meetings and den outings. Pack meetings are fun get togethers for the entire Pack family. The boys get to be recognized in front of family and all of the other Scouts for the things they have done over the month. Your whole family should attend every month. If it is not possible for your husband to attend every Pack meeting, then at least your son and you should be there. Siblings are always welcome too!

"Two weeks ago at a troop meeting I gave the troop a deffintions test on the scout law. This scout only got 4 of the points to the scout law right on their meaning." Definitions test?? Is this Scouting or school? I have to tell you, I am amazed you received any serious answers at all. However, if that Scout (or any other boy over 6th grade) actually could NOT figure out the definition of ANY ONE of those 12 words then the problem is a WHOLE LOT bigger than any problem in Scouting! How old is this Scout? Have you talked to him at all about his problems, in either school, scouts, or both? Have you talked to him about how he feels about his father being deployed? Have you talked to his mother about any of the above? The place to START is to have a SM Conference (that means a friendly sit down heart to heart chat - not an inquisition or a trial) and get to know this boy. Then have another friendly, heart to heart, chat with his mother. Together you just might be able to help this boy.

Every boy gets a Driver's License, a participation certificate, a "Did My Best" PWD ribbon, and a display stand for their car (courtesy of the 5th grade Webelos). We have certificates for the top 3 most creative cars. The 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place winners (we only do overall, no den) each get a red/wht/blue PWD medal with the year and their place # written on it. Seems to make everyone happy.

Actually, the former SM of our Troop had that same attitude. He refused to allow the boys to cross into the Troop until the end of 5th grade. Then, since the only thing they did all summer was summer camp (which the new Scouts did not attend), the boys did not start actually meeting with the Troop until Sept of 6th grade. Even when he was eventually forced to take new Scouts in February or March, he would still not let them attend Summer Camp with the Troop. He then could not understand it when boys started going to other Troops, not coming back after Summer, and the Troop was down to under 10 active Scouts. DUH!