ScoutNut

Who uses a griddle for sausages? Maybe for a side of pancakes. Dutch Oven hobo eggs all the way!

Are you a participant, or a trainer for this weekend's course? BALOO participants do not spend the night, so camping gear is not needed. The folks putting on the BALOO course should have all of the food and equipment necessary for lunch, so no cookwear is needed. If you are a participant you will not need the syllabus. You should receive participant materials. If you are a trainer for this course (you should not be if you have not taken it yet) you can get a 2008 version BALOO syllabus in your Scout Shop. The ones that I have found online are not current. Not knowing the facilities that will be available to you, Fred's suggestion of a camp chair is a good one. If you have the Cub Scout Sparklers and/or song book, while they should not be necessary, considering the quick and dirty aspect of this, if there are not sufficient materials on site to use, it could be helpful to you to bring them along. Also extra eating utensils might come in handy since they have no idea weather to plan for 1 or 100. Just a thought - if there hasn't been any interest in a course, until the 10 folks from the same pack started complaining, what the heck are the Packs in your District doing about Pack camping? Not camping? Camping without a Tour Permit? Getting Tour Permits approved by your council with no trained BALOO leader listed? I can't say I blame those 10 folks for complaining. I would too if I wanted to take my Pack camping, and could not do it, under the BSA rules, because of a lack of the proper training offered by my council.

Sorry, but in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, when most people discuss fundraising they INCLUDE popcorn sales, because, again, in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, most people consider selling popcorn to BE fundraising. In my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, when some one says NO, and NOT ANY, fundraising was done done it means just that - no fundraising of any kind. Also, in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, I have known of quite a few units (Pack, Troop, Crew, Ship, etc) that do NOT sell popcorn. Heck, in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, I have even heard of COUNCILS that do NOT sell popcorn at all! In my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader, when a BSA unit does things that are against BSA policy, has a Committee that does not do it's job, or has "on paper only" leaders, it usually means that (in my 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader) either the leaders are not trained, or they are arrogant enough to think that their way is better than BSA's. Did I mention that I have 17+ years of experience in Scouting as an Adult Leader?

>>"A married SM/ASM cannot be the two deep leadership on a camp overnight outing or on any outing...youth protection."

Wow, should be an interesting training event. Since it is so last minute, with no idea of how many will actually be there, I have no idea what they will, or will not have available for you. I would bring a pen, and a water bottle or cup. You might also need some $$. We usually charge to help offset the cost of materials and food. But then we plan in advance and take registrations too. Call the Course Director, if there is one, or the person in charge of the event.

I still do not understand how you can spend so much on recruiting and publicity. Councils print out recruiting fliers for units for free. Most newspapers will put in community announcements for free. Printing up stickers to put on every boy to remind them of Round-Up comes out to pennies per boy. Councils can often supply trinket give-aways for recruiting Boy Talks, at no charge to the unit. Snacks, refreshments, and even an activity at Round-Up would only come out to a few dollars per boy, if that. None of these expenses come even close to $50 per boy. What the heck are you spend that kind of money on?

I am assuming nothing. YOU stated your father asked for YOUR opinion, and that, in turn, YOU asked for OUR opinions, nothing wrong with that at all. However, there is something wrong with changing the "facts" midway thru. I gave you my opinion. A Pack has to pay for things somehow. Money does not materialize out of thin air. A Pack has basically 2 ways to go about it - Dues or Fundraising, or a combo. The Pack committee, led by it's CC, decides, based on it's budget, what it will, and will not, pay for. Every Pack does this differently. The CC is in charge of Pack finances, not the CM. If there is a problem with finances, or with any aspect of the running of a Pack (as opposed to the Pack program), questions should go to the CC and then the COR. I am glad that your father is taking his questions to the COR (still wonder where the CC and Treasurer are). Hopefully the issue will be resolved.

Drives of various kinds are traditional Eagle projects in this area. Nothing wrong with them that I can see. There is nothing in any BSA literature which bans them. There is also nothing in any BSA literature which defines the scope of an Eagle project beyond the simple - "plan, develop, and give leadership to others". BSA does not state how many "others", or how "big" of a project it should be. Please resist the impulse to make it YOUR project. Simply let them know they must put some more thought into, and expand on, the "plan" and "develop" portions of what they have given you.

Comparing the program for a 7th grade Girl Scout to that of a 2nd grade Cub Scout, is like comparing apples to pineapples. Please do NOT do that. Would you compare the program for Daiseys to that of Cadette Girl Scouts? If you feel the need to compare BSA and GSUSA at least do so in somewhat comparable age groups. A well run Boy Scout Troop is led by its youth members, NOT the parents. A 7th grade Boy Scout is most likely at least a Star Scout. He has had leadership positions and done service. He has taught new Scouts and worked with, and might even been in charge of, older Scouts. Back to the original question. The den leader can have a discussion with the parents about the fact that their son has declared himself an atheist. Most kids in 4th and 5th grade don't really have a clue how they feel about religion, if they even consider it (past being something they are "forced" to do) at all. I would not be to heavy handed, start lecturing about religion, or throw around any comments about lying every time he says the Cub Scout Promise. A pleasant chat in the vein of hey, do you know what your son said to me the other day, kind of thing, is the way to go.

Going from - >>"The pack I am talking about has not done fundraising">"This pack has not attempted any fund raising ">"they just had a ridiculously successful year in popcorn sales.... When I was talking about them not doing fund-raising, I meant outside of the normal popcorn sales.">"My point is that if a pack does attempt to do fundraisers and still cannot cover costs, I can see reason for the scouts to each pay towards advancement materials.">> Since your father is on the Pack Committee, your father should be bringing the issue of finances up to the Pack Committee Chair. The Committee Chair, NOT the Cubmaster, is the person who has the job of managing the finances in a Pack. It also sounds like the Pack leadership (ALL of them, including your father) need to be trained.

OK, you have a Pack that has done no fundraising, yet you want the Pack to pay for all/most awards. Where is the money for these awards supposed to come from? The Cubmasters personal bank account? A Scout pays his own way. That is a guiding principal in BSA. If the Pack charges a yearly Pack dues to cover these expenses, would that be better than charging per activity? The families are still paying. How are you involved with the Pack?

Your council can not really stop units from selling the pizza products. While they might try not approving your money earning application, they really have no recourse if your unit decides to sell their products anyway with out an approved application. Perhaps the BSA brand or image they are talking about is the BSA uniform. What your council may no longer be authorizing is selling their product in BSA uniform. This, to me, is a streach. While BSA has the right to charge a company if they want to put BSA logos on their products or marketing materials, I have never heard of a company being made to pay a fee in order for units to sell their products in uniform. However, that might be what your council is trying to do, and the notice might be a result of Corbi's not agreeing to pay. Or it might be a misunderstanding, or something else entirely. I would give your council a call and talk to whoever put out the notice. That is the only way to find out for certain what is going on, and why.

Please - Take training NOW. While using the B&G as a GOAL for families to be finished with rank requirements, is fine, it should NOT be a do or die, group lock-step type of thing. BSA policy is that every Scout goes at his own pace, and is recognized as soon as possible after completing something. Program Helps do not guarantee that Scouts will finish their rank award requirements by B&G. They are a HELP for meeting ideas. The Tiger Program is VERY different from any other Cub Scout den. IF you follow the Tiger Program, you will be working with your Tiger Teams in SHARED LEADERSHIP. There are 5 program areas in the Tiger program. Each one is split into 3 parts. 1 - Den Activity 1 - Family Activity 1 - Outing You can not always force families to complete the family activities in your time frame. Bobcat must be earned FIRST. Completing 3 parts (Motto, Sign, Salute) of Bobcat earns the Tiger his Tiger Totem, which should be presented to them at their very first Pack meeting, so they can also start earning beads. Have FUN. Get to know your Tiger families. Have more FUN. Depending on where you are, do the outdoor things when the weather is still good. Make sure the boys receive awards WHEN THEY EARN THEM, and are not made to wait months. Have more FUN. Help the Tiger Teams have FUN, and learn about Cub Scouts TOGETHER.

If you are camping outdoors ALL perishable food should be stored in a cooler with ice, or a refrigerator if in a cabin.

>>> "The ACP&P describe extensions as if the purpose is for completing the board of review. However, it does not describe the purpose as to complete requirements." >>> Now see, this sort of round-about blather, that you KNOW to be incorrect, is what causes me to smell a troll. On your other long winded dance of a thread, I specifically mentioned time extensions for finishing requirements. Since you are in the process of re-writing the Advancement Committee Policies & Procedures for National and your Council (unasked by either), and you seem to have it memorized, I would think you would know about the section on time extensions (labeled, curiously enough, Time Extensions) on page 25. The entire section is - "If a Scout or a Venturer foresees that he will be unable to complete the requirements for the Eagle rank prior to his 18th birthday, he may file a petition in writing with the National Boy Scout Committee through the local council for special permission to continue to work toward the award after reaching age 18. The petition also may be filed by the unit leader or unit committee. The petition must show good and sufficient evidence and detail the extenuating circumstances that prevented the Scout from completing the requirements prior to his 18th birthday." "Extenuating circumstances are defined as conditions or situations that are totally beyond the control of the Scout or Venturer. If circumstances should also prevent a Scout or a Venturer from requesting the extension before he is 18, it is still permissible to ask for the extension, detailing the extenuating circumstances that prevented him from completing the requirements and from requesting the extension before age 18." Now would you like to share what EXACTLY you are doing, and getting to, or do you insist on continuing this game?

A couple of assembly lines should work well. Have adults behind the tables with the food choices wearing disposable food-service gloves. The people walk down the table, pick what they want, and the adult with the gloves puts it in the foil. This will help control your portions somewhat. You will need to create patrols for dinner. One patrol starts the charcoal and is in charge of the fire, and the cooking. (Best if they keep a couple charcoal chimneys going at all times for spare coals.) One patrol is in charge of laying out, and handling the food. One Patrol is in charge of tearing foil squares (do a double wrap, with the name on the inside layer) and helping to finish folding the packet. One patrol can be in charge of trash pick-up. Etc. With hamburger, I like to use the cheaper frozen patties. Although, for a bit more, Aldi has some thicker ones with bacon/cheddar & spicy peppers/jack that would be real tasty. Again, easier to figure portions - 1-youth 2-adult 1-spare packets. While canned veggies cook faster, they also taste rather bland & leave a LOT of trash. I like to use fresh, cut up at home & put in zip-lock bags, veggies (grn peppers, onions, mushrooms, tomatoes), with frozen corn and hash browns. If the veggies don't cook down to mush that's fine. Crunchy veggies are good! The unused veggies & hash browns can be used up the next morning in DO pots of farmer eggs. Don't forget the canned soup for flavor and moisture. You can also give the foil a spray of canned oil (Pam type) to help keep everything from sticking. OK, now I'm hungry!

>> "Cubs & Bugs" seems like a very, very narrow theme. Kind of difficult to fit archery and BB guns into that category.>> Not really, they are Mosquitoes & Bees! Some of your themes have been National Themes at one time or another. Check out past Program Helps, Roundtable resources, and Pow Wow books. Look at BALOO's Bugle on USSSP for ideas.

This is ONE Day Camp, with each day being a different theme? Are you the Day Camp Director? Program Director?

Segments are a local council thing. They can be purchased by your council from any number of licensed patch companies. Your council Scout Shop can decide which segments they will offer, and which they will not. Bottom line is that we have no way of knowing what segments your council has available, much less a picture (B&W or color) of them. Ask in your Scout Shop for a flier with better pictures.

If there is no hill, how do the Cubmobiles move? Cubmobiles are run by gravity, rather like a full scale PWD.

>> "So these two boys should be told, if your parents cannot come you are not allowed to go camping. That is what you come across sounding like " >> Then you obviously did NOT read my post. What I stated, quite clearly, was - >>"If there is a pressing reason why a parent can not attend, they should, in writing, give another adult the responsibility for their son for that overnighter.">> What YOU "come across sounding like" - From your posts it sounds like you are planning a dual Pack campout that includes parents for the Tigers, because they must be there, but only a ratio of approximately 3:1 for ALL Wolf, Bear, & Webelos Scouts. Nowhere did you state your question was for 2 specific boys ONLY.

I have been volunteering with the Cub Scouts for 14 years now. 9 of those have been with no son in the Pack. I am also a trainer, and a UC. Not burned out yet!

Why is it that you are even considering allowing Wolf, Bear & Webelos Scouts to camp on their own at a Pack overnighter? What is the point of that? Pack campouts are ENTRY-LEVEL outdoor experiences. They should be based on the purposes of Cub Scouting, but should not be all about advancement. The main purposes of a Pack campout is FUN, and to get Cub Scouts, their parents, and their leaders hooked on camping, and the outdoors, and wanting more. How can we grow a love of the outdoors in the parents if they are not there? We want the adults at the overnighter to have FUN too. Both on their own and WITH THEIR SON. How can that happen if they are constantly herding, chasing, reprimanding, and in general dealing with, other people's children (I don't care HOW wonderfully they behave)? Cub Scouts is a FAMILY program, not a drop and run babysitting service. The program is as much for the parents as it is for the boys. If you have a Cub Scout camping without a parent, it should be an exception only. For the most part every Cub should have at least one of his own parents present. If there is a pressing reason why a parent can not attend, they should, in writing, give another adult the responsibility for their son for that overnighter. BTW - I too am a BALOO Course Director.

Invite the Charter Organization Representative, and your Unit Commisioner (call your council to get contact info), to your discussion with the SM & CC.

Windy - The Webelos Compass Points emblem is simply a way to keep track of how many Activity Badges have been earned. Yes, IF the Compass Points emblem is filled, the Webelos will have earned 19 Activity Badges, with only 1 more left to earn all 20. However - a FILLED Compass Points emblem is NOT REQUIRED to earn AOL. The Webelos Handbook clearly explains the requirements for both the Webelos Badge, and AOL. Webelos need to earn a total of ONLY 8 Activity Badges to earn AOL. Congratulations to your boys for earning all 20.