ScoutNut

Why our Pack has lost den leaders - Moving, son aging out, home/job needs. That's about it. oldhat - You have been told a number of reasons why OTHER leaders have left OTHER Scouting units, and I am sure that information can be helpful in a general way. However, it will not tell you why YOUR Pack is losing leaders. From your post it sounds like your Pack is having a real problem, with an unusually high number of den leaders leaving, or quitting before they even start. The only way to find out why YOUR leaders are bailing is to ask them. Call all of your former leaders and ask them for their honest reasons why. You might be surprised.

Wow, you really do have a way with words! Talk about large egos. If you hate the program why are you, and your son, in it? You state you have been a BSA volunteer since your son was a Cub Scout, and he is now an adult leader in a Boy Scout Troop. Surely at some point either you, or him, learned how the BSA is set up, and how a Council, District, and unit, works. Your council can NOT do anything about what what YOU consider a "misuse of funds". The funds do NOT belong to the council, they belong to your CHARTER ORGANIZATION! Your Boy Scout Troop is OWNED by it's CHARTER ORGANIZATION. It is up to the CHARTER ORGANIZATION to take your Troop's leaders to task for the money they spent. Have you spoken to your Charter Organization Rep at all? The Scout Executive of the Greater St Louis Council has nothing to do with your Troops money woes. Neither does the Chief Scout Executive of the Boy Scouts of America.

Attend National Camp School. Or talk to your District/Council Cub Scout Resident or Day Camp Director. Webelos Outdoor is not the place to be leading a discussion on your Council's camping policies. The training is only so long, and you are obligated to stick to the syllabus so that everything can be covered in the alloted time. If this person complains about Council policies, refer him to the Council Camping Chair, and move on.

Cubs (especially Tiger/Wolf/Bear Cubs) should not be camping with Boy Scouts and participating in Boy Scout activities. Age appropriate activities. However, some councils/districts like to combine events. If they are holding a Cub Scout Cub-o-ree, and possibly a Webelos-ree, at the same time, and at the same council camp, but in another area, with separate camping and Cub Scout age appropriate activities, I see no problem. A visit to the Boy Scout Camp-o-ree as a part of the days activity should be limited to Webelos only.

There should be no "pre-screening" of the Eagle references by anyone. Per BSA Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures - "The candidates should not be involved personally in transmitting any correspondence between people listed as references and the council service center or advancement committee." and - "Reference checks that are forwarded with the application are confidential, and their contents are not to be disclosed to any person who is not a member of the board of review."

Shouldn't be any "grey" area at all. He is a registered Scout going on Scout outings. He is covered by by BSA insurance. No problem, as long as your Pack leadership is OK with it. This happens a lot with kids from split families. They do not want to put Scouting on hold while they are at the other parent's. Some even dual register in 2 different units, one by mom, and one by dad.

For the tent capacity on most tents you need to go down one from what the manufacturer suggests. So a tent stating it is for 4 really only fits 3 adults comfortably. I don't think I would ever get a tent that was supposed to be a 1-man. A 2-man is the smallest I would go. Of course I am not exactly tiny either!

>>"As for all of you BSA literature quoters....get a life and let the posters get their questions answered instead of the same 3 people hijacking every thread with what they think is right...we are all here to help, not hinder and frustrate."

BSA National has both a Facebook, and Twitter page.

Yep, that is exactly why I stipulated - "WHILE YOUR COUNCIL MIGHT DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY". There ARE a number of councils out there that HAVE made basic training REQUIRED. However, regardless of what they might do at some future time, CURRENTLY, basic training is NOT required for volunteers by BSA NATIONAL.

Did you mean Committee Member AND COR - or just the COR, and you as the CC?

I guess that I am unclear on what you are advocating. What, exactly, do you feel the camp could/should have done? If you don't care what "other folks let their kids do", then what is the problem? If your husband was actively watching, and participating with, your son, making sure he followed your rules, then how could the actions, or non-actions, of other parents affect him?

Question HICO, why did you take TDC? It does not sound like you are in favor of Unit Leaders being trained. Are you planning on volunteering to be on your District/Council Training Staff? Or did you take TDC just as an informational thing on your own? BTW, while your council might do things differently, BSA National has NOT made Basic Training, consisting of This Is Scouting (NLE), Leader Position Specific, and Outdoor Training, MANDATORY, or REQUIRED. The only trainings REQUIRED by BSA are those listed on the Tour Permits. Also, in order to take Wood Badge you must be trained in your primary position. That's it. If the reason you took TDC was so you could volunteer to be on Training Staff, some Districts/Councils require that you have actually taken the course before you are allowed to teach it. If you have a lot of prior experience, some will allow you to attend a training, while you are staffing a portion of it. It is up to the Training Chair.

It sounds like your position was changed at re-charter. A new Adult Application is not needed to simply switch positions within a Pack. Since there are so few registered adults in your Pack, and a specific number of positions which MUST be filled to have a valid charter, I would bet they simply changed your position code. A Pack MUST have a registered CC, it can do without a registered Asst CM. Getting everyone trained for their position should help. At least you will all know what you SHOULD be doing, and how a Pack is supposed to work. Weather or not you all actually DO it is another thing altogether.

Other than the issue of Youth Protection, BSA is not in the business of dictating what constitutes "good", or "bad", parenting. It is entirely possible that there was a religious component to the father's attitude about his son's injury and treatment. While we might not agree, we can't do anything about differing religious beliefs. It sounds like the medical staff did their job well. I do not understand why you have a problem with it. I doubt that your personal insurance costs will go up because this one Scout was airlifted out of a council camp. Considering the location of this camp, the council most likely has had to airlift out other injured people before, and I am sure their insurance on the camp covers the likelihood of having to do just that. I doubt that just that one incident would be enough to have the insurance rates your council pays raised. Free time is just that. If your husband felt the parents should have been watching their own sons during free time, he should have talked to the missing parents then and there. It was not up to the camp staff to dictate what the families did during their free time. There should, however, been some camp rules. These are usually posted, or given, to all families. They are also usually covered at opening ceremony. The buddy system, a basic safety system, should have been in effect for all youth at the camp, at all times. The running over the log seats before campfire should have been addressed, and stopped, by the camp staff running the campfire. Did your husband fill out, & hand in, an evaluation sheet at the end of the weekend? That would have been the time to let the council, and camp staff, know of his safety concerns.

How is it that this person is the CM of your Pack if her son is in another Pack that she is also CM of? You have a willing replacement ready. It sounds like it is time to let her know that she is free to return to her own Pack, and her own son's den. Who is your Charter Organization (CO)? Find out who the head of your CO is and the Charter Org Rep (COR). Get a meeting together and discuss the future of THEIR PACK.

We no longer do trail mix at Pack campouts. The problem comes when the kids bring the bags of trail mix into their tents. Or start dropping the trail mix all over the area. Or you get 1 or 2 who decide they don't like parts, and empty their bags on the ground. Not a problem, it is biodegradable food stuffs right? Well, when your campsite is invaded by critters at night, all happily chowing down on the snacks you left for them, it becomes a BIG problem.

Yes, BALOO is BSA training. By "locally administered" I believe they mean that it is not an online training. All of the others, Youth Protection, Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, Climb On Safely, and Hazardous Weather, can be completed online at MyScouting.

From the National Website, under Scouting Safely - Tour Permit FAQs Q. Does the BALOO training that is listed in the activity training matrix have an expiration? A. BALOO is a locally administered course that does not have an expiration date. Repeating the course biannually is not a requirement at this time. Insert the date you took BALOO into the training matrix.

I have weathered torrential, horizontial, rains, with winds that blew down trees, in my Taurus 4, and stayed high, dry, and comfy. Even though I did wake up with the back wall directly over my face! The clip at the top does not go over both poles, just the top one. I did not get the footprint, but use a sheet of heavy duty black plastic sheeting cut to size. It fits in with the tent nicely.

Lisa, the shuffling of popcorn paperwork between Troop and Pack is a definitely pain in the tucass! I am the Popcorn Kernel for the Pack. At one time I was also the PK for the Troop. In out Troop the popcorn profit goes 100% to the boys Scout accounts (their Troop fundraiser is a Pancake Breakfast), you would think that would encourage sales. Not so much. The boys do not like working for it by going door to door. As you noted, show & sells can make pretty good money, and it is REALLY EASY work (for the boys anyway). For 2 years I offered show & sell slots to the Troop. I tried days specifically slotted for the Troop. I tried opening up all slots to both the Pack & Troop. The only takers from the Troop were my son & one other boy, who was used to booth sales of GS cookies with his 2 sisters. Figuring out how much, of what product, to allocate to the Troop was way to much of a pain. I ended up simply giving the Troop the boys show & sell allocation out of the Pack funds. Not the best solution, but it did work. A couple of years later, when boys and leaders who were used to show & sells from Cubs got into the Troop, the Troop did their own. Still not a large turn out, but some at least. The only down side is I now have competition getting the best sites! The bottom line is I would recommend the Troop run their own show & sells. Keeps the paperwork neater, with less headaches all around.

>>"I have about 5 boys who will not be able to join becuase of the meeting time.">"I was advised by the District Executive to look into how others are handling these things."

This is why you have more than one name attached to a unit bank account. The Charter Organization's IH should go to the the bank and shut down the account as soon as possible. By the way, since you are the new Cubmaster, why is it that you are trying to get the checkbook? That should be the Treasurer's job, or if there is no Tresurer, the Committee Chair. Where is the CC, or the new COR?

>>"Other working moms want their son in Tigers and the den moms were going to pick them up from after school care and take them to the Tiger Den meetings. Thoughts?"

>>"She did not say that it was the leader that would be taking her son."