ScoutNut

I thought this was all discussed in your other post on this very subject. http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=240532 You stated there that you had contacted your council and they would accept a Red Cross Lifeguard. There is nothing more that any of us can add to what we have already told you, and what your council has told you. If you have more questions on this, I would suggest you contact your council again to see what, specificaly, they will, and will not allow.

Have you applied to the Council Advancement Committee yet?

More important than being helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, and cheerful to a parent of a Scout? No, not at the moment. And why did YOU take time away from YOUR unit to post here?

The money you get from fundraising covers expences for 1 year. If you don't get your popcorn profit until December, then it must cover Pack expences from Dec-Nov. If sales are down, & you don't make enough to cover, or you spend to much along the way, then you either cut out some activities, or charge for them. Or you do an extra money earning activity. We always try to meet the council FOS requirements to get free rank badges. It helps stretch the money. We always have enough to pay for everything we want to. Once Booth Sales (Show & Sell) $ start coming in we can use the Pack's portion for monthly awards so we usually run our funds from Oct-Sept.

The program themes were/are not written in stone, or mandatory. You could always make up your own, use them out of sequence, or use an old one. Nothing stopping you now from having a Camping theme the month you go camping. There is also Baloo's Bugle. It is a great resourse that uses the themes. http://www.cubmaster.org/usscouts/bbugle2007-2008.asp

From what I understand from folks who were at the National Meeting, that is indeed the case. Even though there are approved themes thru August 2011, BSA has said it will not support them with Program Helps after the 2009-2010 program year. These are the same Program Helps that BSA states (on its new Website) this about - "The annual Cub Scout Program Helps is such an important resource for Cub Scout leaders that it has often been called "the foundation for successful Cub Scouting." " I get the feeling BSA is putting all of its eggs in the Fast Tracks basket.

Interestingly enough, BSA addresses this very issue on their new website - http://www.scouting.org/Training/YouthProtection.aspx "Cameras, imaging, and digital devices. While most campers and leaders use cameras and other imaging devices responsibly, it has become very easy to invade the privacy of individuals. It is inappropriate to use any device capable of recording or transmitting visual images in shower houses, restrooms, or other areas where privacy is expected by participants." "Digital Privacy A key ingredient for a safe and healthy Scouting experience is the respect for privacy. Advances in technology are enabling new forms of social interaction that extend beyond the appropriate use of cameras or recording devices (see Barriers to Abuse Within Scouting). Sending sexually explicit photographs or videos electronically or sexting by cell phones is a form of texting being practiced primarily by young adults and children as young as middle-school age. Sexting is neither safe, nor private, nor an approved form of communication and can lead to severe legal consequences for the sender and the receiver. Although most campers and leaders use digital devices responsibly, educating them about the appropriate use of cell phones and cameras would be a good safety and privacy measure."

http://www.scouting.org/ It still needs work with broken links and such. It is OK, but I think i prefer the "old" new look.

Someone on another list has stated that it was announced at the National Meeting that there will be no more Program Helps, or National Themes, after the 2009-2010 program year. Can anyone who attended confirm, or deny this rumor?

You state - "We offer a great year round program" Yet your den has dropped from 10 to 2, and the Pack has gone from over 20 to about 10. That does not sound like a "great" program to me. You said that you (DL), the CC, and the CM have no kids in the Pack as of this past Feb 2009, but are staying on with the Pack for 1 more year. Are there replacements for all of you that you are helping and training? Or are there no parents willing to step up and help support the Pack? It is possible that, if there is a lack of parent support, and families leaving hand over fist, your CM might not want to recruit because he sees the Pack imploding and does not want to subject any new Scouts to that. The CM also might just not want to be there any more. He might prefer to give his entire time and attention to the Troop but feels forced to stay with the Pack. The question your Pack families (not the three of you who have one foot out the door already) have to answer is - Do they want this Pack to continue? If the answer is yes - then they have to be willing to step up and make that happen. That means getting a new CC, CM, and leaders for every den (with the three of you either renewing your commitment to help and train your replacements or moving on). That means getting all leaders trained for their positions. That means recruiting new Scouts at all levels (working with the DE if your Board of Ed will not allow fliers, or "Boy Talks"). If the answer is no - then I would suggest the CC talk to the COR about shutting down this summer, and getting what boys are left registered in a new Pack.

A Venture Patrol is part of your BSA Boy Scout Troop program. It is simply a different patrol in the Troop, doing different things. It is NOT a Venturing unit (Crew / Ship) that requires a charter from a chartering organization. I am suprised your Scoutmasters did not know this. Your PLC should get together with your SM and figure out how they want the patrol set up. Many Troops have a rolling/temporary patrol membership depending on the activity the Venture patrol is doing, or planning for.

>>"use your parents as much as possible that way they don't become bored and attendance doesn't suffer.

MC = Member of the Committee / Committee Member

First of all, it is not your job to make up surveys, set up meeting nights and times, and split the Tigers into dens. It is up to the CC, with assistance from the CM, to set up new dens, and recruit new den leaders. At the Rally, as the CM and CC are accepting registrations, they should ask the new families if they have any days/times that they can absolutely NOT meet, and if their son has any close friends among the other new Tigers. The CC & CM, should be recruiting a den leader from the families at this time also (you can NOT lead both Tiger dens). When each den meets depends on each den leader's schedule, when THEY are available, and the availability of the Pack's meeting space. The CC, CM, and the DL's for both dens can then sit down and split the boys, depending on the availability of the families, and friendships. It is also a good idea to split the experienced families evenly between each den (you said you have 4-6 siblings going into Tigers). The rest of the boys can be split evenly, and arbitrarily, between dens. Pulling names out of a bucket works. You are responsible for the Tiger program of YOUR den ONLY. Both you and the other den's leader should take all of the online training as soon as possible now, and the Tiger Leader Specific as soon as possible after your council's new training dates are published.

Who is this dad you had the argument with? You said he is involved, but does not want to be? How is he involved? What was the argument over recruiting more den leaders? Den leaders are necessary to have a healthy Pack. I don't see anything to argue about there. If your leaving would cause the Pack to fold then it sounds to me like you need to do some heavy recruiting of both leaders AND boys if you decide to stay. Do you have a Committee Chair and a Charter Org Rep? Have you spoken to them about this parent, and the recruitment needs of the Pack?

From the BSA Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book - Page 33 - "There are two sets of circumstances in which a Scout or his parent(s) or guardian(s), acting on his behalf, may appeal a decision." "The first situation occurs when a unit leader or unit committee does not recommend a Scout for a board of review, or refuses to sign the Eagle Scout application. In such cases, the Scout or his parent(s) or guardian(s) may appeal the decision to the committee responsible for advancement at the next level, as described below. The committee hearing the appeal shall then grant the Scout a board of review and appoint its members. In such cases, the committee hearing the appeal shall decide to grant or not to grant a board of review." "All requests for appeal shall be made in writing, signed by the Scout and/or his parent(s) or guardian(s), and shall set forth in detail the reasons for requesting an appeal." "Upon initial receipt of an appeal, the district and the council advancement committee charged with hearing the initial appeal shall provide for a prompt review to determine the facts. All parties must be interviewed or written statements obtained. Confrontations between opposing parties must be avoided." In the case of your friend in the other Troop, the written request for an appeal should have gone to the District Advancement Committee Chair. By your 180 time limit comment, it sounds like the Scout was a "death-bed" Eagle, who turned in his paperwork for signatures on, or after, his 18th birthday? IF that was the case, he, and his parents should have gone up the chain of command to the Council Advancement Chair, and beyond, long ago. However, in the quote above from BSA it states that the appeal review should be done PROMPTLY. In my opinion, SEVEN MONTHS is not even close to prompt, so the District shoulders some of the blame for this. If it is over 6 months since his 18th birthday, he needs to let whoever is at this "meeting" know that he will be petitioning the National Boy Scout Committee.

The Language of Scouting on the BSA National Web site - http://scouting.org/Media/LOS.aspx

What - exactly - is a non-council camporee?? Are you talking about a Pack Family Campout? Your BALOO trained person should be the one planning and running all Pack Family Campouts. Who pays for what depends largely on how much money your Pack has, and how much they want to budget for their Family Campout. At my Pack's Family Campouts the Pack used to pick up all costs. We have decided to start charging $10 per family (not individual) because folks who have put money down (even a little) are much more likely to show up when they say they will. The Pack will still cover all related expenses.

The entire Pack, and all of it's dens, belong to your Charter Organization. They are the "owners". The people that the CO have put in charge of seeing that the Pack, and the BSA program, are running the way they should are the Charter Organization Rep, the Committee Chair, and the Cubmaster. It is one of the responsibilities of the Committee Chair, with the help of the Cubmaster, to form new dens when needed. This means consolidating them when needed also. You asked if the Cubmaster can "force" you to take new boys, as someone mentioned, you can't be forced to do anything, but neither are the CC and CM forced to keep a den leader who would push boys out of the Pack, and possibly Scouting. Their job is to stop that. Did the den leader for the 3rd Bear den leave now, right before the end of the school year? Why did that happen? Why didn't the leader and the leaders son stay at least until the end of the school year? It is only a matter of a couple of weeks. It sounds like there could be more going on here. I can understand not wanting a den to get to large. I can understand being concerned about the manageability of a large den. I can understand wanting the boys in your den to get the best possible BSA program. I can't understand using cost as an excuse for turning away boys. Charge den dues, and get help from your Pack Committee. If you want to avoid burnout, recruit more of your parents to be either den leaders, or den helpers. Using your parents to run Webelos Activity Badges in areas of interest to them is recommended by BSA. I also can't understand wanting to keep a solid, special, clique together by excluding all other boys. What do you plan on doing when they go to Boy Scouts? If they all go into the same Troop, your clique of 8 will most likely get broken up into different patrols. How will they handle that? How will they manage to get along with all of the other boys in the Troop? How will they accept being led by boys who are not in their clique? By boys who are different from them? The only "negative impact" new boys will have on the den is the one you let happen.

I believe most councils would accept non-BSA lifeguard training (lifeguards at public pools are not BSA trained). However - you should first clear it with the person in your council who approves the Local Tour Permits. If they will only allow BSA training, ask them where and when it is available. Unfortunately, you may find you can only get it at Boy Scout Summer Camp. You can also contact other councils in your area to see about their training.

Unless they are talking about balls that look like rocks, someone has been taking one, or ten, to many nips from the brandy bottle!

mdsummer45 - How did the BOR go this week?

>>"Model Rockets are not an approved Cub Scout activity per G2SS"

While many Venturing Crews are "high adventure" oriented, not all of them are. That is one of the nice things about Venturing, a Crew can specialize. Who the boys ask to be their CO can depend a lot on what kind of a Crew they want to be. If they are interested in sailing/boating they can contact an area yacht, or sailing club, to charter a Sea Scout Ship. If they are interested in religious service they can contact an area church to be their CO. Community service, Kiwanis or another service club. If they are interested in reenactments, your local Society of Creative Anachronism might be interested. The Civil Air Patrol has chartered Crews interested in flying. If it is outdoor adventure they are after they can look into conservation clubs, a local outfitter, local hunting/fishing/gun clubs, or even local sporting goods stores. A CO does not have to be a non-profit. A business that wants to make an impact on the community they are in can make a fine CO. Good Luck!

I am very sorry to hear about your father. That can not have been easy for your family. Regarding your Troop's Charter Org, they own the Troop. While they might have very well been over reacting (bad things can happen even when the volunteer is over 25 and does have a child in the Troop), it is still their call to make. Time will tell how good, or bad, a decision it was. Meantime, your profile shows that you are involved in a Crew as President, I would concentrate on that for now, and not stew over something you have no control over. Perhaps you can recruite the SM, and ASM's who were let go from the Troop to join your Crew.