Scoutndad

Wow...great replies...that's why I come to the forum. First off, yes...there are worse problems to have. Second, no...there are no additional health worries (possibly behavioral-not mental) that would create this atmosphere. Third, the boy is 12 and comes from a very good home that provides regular family time. Fourth, Dad does not interfere with the outings as much as the scout relies on Dad at the outings. How is the Patrol Method reinforced with the scouts if constant parental contact is the norm? Fifth, the dad GLADLY takes on other roles, but is continually used as a security blanket. The problem is the lack of dad's awareness of interdependency that is prevalent at the outings. I guess the idea of self reliance and self confidence is the biggest issue at stake. I think if left on his own, the scout would eventually thrive after a few "rough" outings. But again, the "problem" of an over involved dad comes with the idea that he is unaware that he is enabling his scouts dependency. So is it the PL, SM, another parent, - me - that approaches dad and asks when he will let his scout become independent?

I have started this message five times now. The title seems a bit misleading, but maybe not. There is a father in my son's troop and he is part of the adult leader team for the troop. This dad is an exceptional guy (maybe a bit naive)and his son is a pretty good kid, but could really benefit from scouts and the Patrol Method. The problem is that this boy has NEVER gone on a Troop outing without dad. The one time that dad had to leave 1 day ahead of time at a summer camp, the boy was a mess and needed to be constantly consoled. Now this boy has been selected for an honor guard (with my son), and dad is again going to attend. I know the obvious implications of my post, but can not help but think that there is no way the boy would be part of a Troop or go on outings with dad. To this point, there is no way the scout would advance in rank if not for dad's involvement with all of the outings. How does the Patrol Method relate to issues like this where active adult participation is encouraged, but constant involvement does not help the scout understand the patrol method and gain leadership experience? Qualifiers: The boy does not have any medical conditions that would support the father being there constantly. The boy is home-schooled, but seems to interact well with the other boys in the Troop. As I said, the dad is a great guy and would do anything for the Troop. Just was wondering if anyone else had over-involved parents and how the scouts turned out... Thanks

Kudos to those dads that join in their ddd activities including scouting. I have just completed my first year as a Brownie Troop leader (and I survived!), and I am happy to report that all of my families have re-registered for next year. I believe a portion of this success is due to the active registration of 90% of the dads in my troop which I encourage, and 100% of moms. I don't think it should be one or the other and I let my parents know that it is not a "drop and run" program.

Do you attend the monthly roundtable meetings? not consistently Do you even know what they are? oh yes Does your roundtable staff conduct good meetings? somewhat Are they worthwhile attending? when there is planned training involved, YES! May I digress for a moment - but staying close to the topic... A young WDL spoke up last night at our District mtg and suggested that if we wanted increased participation, that we should allow parents/leaders to bring their school age children. The DC and one other leader said that they had tried this many years ago and that there may be too many hurdles to jump, in order to make this happen since it is a District function. (ie, certified day care provider, certified cpr person, etc.) I think that they were trying to discourage it, but handled it tactfully. Just as Lisabob mentions dragging her son to the roundtables, I think that many leaders/parents are in the same boat and it may encourage participation if generally accepted. Does anyone have experience, rules and references? Thanks Scoutndad

Well said Cheerful Eagle....I almost took exception when you mentioned "that other organization", but it's true isn't it? Especially with those families that have no young ladies and are not exposed to GSUSA. But through good leaders and constant vigilance, we are and continue to be, one big scouting family! Although I am a newbie to GSUSA, I look forward to our Thinking Day celebration next Friday evening. My Brownies and I will be taking part (first time) in a Neighborhood Thinking Day celebration (theme is international birthday celebrations) and we will be promoting the values of scouting and having a great big b-day bash! YIS, Brian

My $.02.. Adults should wear uniform depending on the event that they are participating in (either GSUSA or BSA). Although I will say that the BSA adult uniform is a bit more to behold than the GSUSA adult uniform I would never think of showing disrespect to my BSA commitments by showing up with my shirt and tab...likewise to GSUSA commitments in my BSA uniform. As for kids, if there is a son that wants to attend with his sister AT his sister's Troop meeting, why not allow him to attend in his cubbie uniform. I agree with allowing a cubbie to take pride in his uniform. By the way, being in Grand Rapids and experiencing the interment of Gerald R Ford was quite a sight to behold with all of the cubbie and scout uniforms; banners and flags; and a good contingency of girl scouts who paid their respects while in their vests, tabs and sashes. I still think emphasizing the uniform for both boys and girls is an important part of the scouting experience.

I echo the sentiment in this thread... I was a Cub leader from Tigers through Webe II's and when my son was done, I told him it was time to go to his Troop without me as a leader (and much to my chagrin, he agreed readily). It is now my turn to start with my daughters and their GSUSA involvement and give them as much of my time as I can as a leader. I was also a bit disappointed about the firearm (bb gun included) exposure, but thought that we had enough local gun clubs that if I felt it was the right thing to do, my daughters could shoot competitively outside GSUSA. But much to my surprise, we (GSUSA council) also have a monthly program for ALL Troops for martial arts training....and the local camp has an archery range....so as I said, BSA nor GSUSA will dictate what my kids will be involved with, but it sure would be fun to do it as part of a Troop activity. As for getting dirty...I told my Brownie parents to expect it. Not to stereotype young ladies, but I think if you get them exposed to outdoor fun, or getting dirty, their love of nature will soon follow. (I had just as many cubbies sleep with night lights on and get grossed out by bugs than any young girls I know). Both camps are as much fun as we make them, and fortunately, I have strong councils on both sides that give us many training and activity opportunities. The GSUSA male leader stigma is something that I still need to adjust to since I appear to be an extreme minority (as oppposed to the multitudes of female leaders in Cub Scouts). And as for parents, I also told them that this was not a drop and run program and that I want them to be involved and see what their girls are doing so that they understand the experience of GSUSA. I also told them that I would expect at least one parent per family to spend $10 and become registered (opportunity fund not withstanding) so that when it came time to do some field trips, there were no misconceptions on who was driving or covered under the GSUSA policy. Our school girl scout troops also agreed to have a once a month meeting (similar to monthly cub scout pack meetings) so that the young girls can see what the older girls are doing and the older girls can strive to achieve more if they know that the younger ladies are emulating their involvement. Let the fun begin!

As a GSUSA newbie, I am ok with the program and uniform changes. I really appreciate the idea that they stuck with the traditional names. The grade splits seems to be fairly cohesive at the younger levels. The uniforms work for me and look forward to a universal WAGGGS look. I will wait to hear from any and all "experienced" leaders as to their $.02 worth on the program and uniform changes.

Difficult to describe but succinctly put WDL Mom...

Thanks Cheerful Eagle. I'm not giving up with this forum just yet. The response I had to my crossover question were GREAT and I look forward to touching base with some of those when scouts gets back into full swing....

IMHO Being their for your kids is the best way to live life and I would never condemn parental involvement with your kids, regardless of the activities or roles. But I do believe that there is a natural inclination to continue leadership roles in your childs life (BSA, sports, academics, etc) for obvious and not so obvious reasons, as your child gets older. With that said and in my observation, I see the idea of maintaining some type of leadership role in your own child's life, as a self-fulfillment need on behalf of the adult. But I think the answer is more succinct with Hunt's response. And to answer your question, no, I think that there should be a First Class Badge waiting period for any new leadership positions within a Troop. Once your scout has become First Class, then the adult can join in (gets the practical experience and the BSA mentality part (camp outs, service projects, etc) out of the way instead of learning on the fly). I think we miss viable resources (parents who don't own khaki shirts when their scout first joins) by not enforcing some type of waiting period. Personally, I became involved with a District that I was critical of previously and that my son no longer belongs to. I now get to work on issues (not necessarily solve) that will help continue the BSA legacy in this District, and hopefully provide a useful resource for years to come. Additionally, I signed up as a Merit Badge Counselor for my sons Troop (resource), but recognized that their are other parents that step in as well as I can. Then with nothing else to do (LOL)I became a Girl Scout leader and will continue that role until another leader steps in or I can no longer maintain my responsibilities to the GSUSA program. MHO

OK...it may be just me, but is there another forum where GSUSA is discussed and I'm missing it (or is it just for the A-listers...lol)??? I always thought that Scouter.com was a fantastic site for BSA references, questions, philosophical rants, and advice, but I see little action under the Girl Scouting forum. Is it just me or is there a better resource forum for Girl Scouting??? When I first started posting on Scouter.com, it was because I had a serious quesiton re Cub Scouts and needed advice (which paid off HUGE). As a silent reader in the wings, I was intimidated by the amount of posters that bled blue, gold, khaki and sometimes green, and was quiet until I realized what a great benefit it was to be a posting member. Now that I am in GSUSA, I still look to those with great tips, suggestions and resources....so where are they???? Scouter.com is still a favorite website for me and I will continue to peruse the discussions, but I also look forward to all of you silent "in the wings" types, to start posting under this forum so I can see what great things I have to look forwad to (or not) in GSUSA. BTW, I did use earlier advice from this forum on the crossover from Campfire to GSUSA and it went GREAT! YIS, Brian Newbie Brownie Leader Brownie Girl Scout Troop 3047 Ada, MI

Agree with Hunt 100% and give props to Fuzzy Bear on laying it all out there.... I see it happening with different Packs and Troops... once the Webelos parent has crossed over their scout, they continue to entice, encourage and even nag at their scout. Some succumb to the call of the really cool uniform and stay involved which is great, but then you see as many adult tans as you do youth tans and I wonder who the program is all about. The first year is critical for the scout to know that his parent(s) support his involvement, but pushing the program and requirements is typically contrary to the mentality of young men, as is the social impact of the parent joining in a leadership role when the scout needs his space to grow. I would retract this last statement if the Troop NEEDED adult leadership, but I never see the lack of resources in my area for this - typically happens at the Cub level. Good luck

I think the age splits are a great idea! For the reasons (and examples) outlined by purcelce I am not even into my first Brownie year yet but I see where the social group ideas will work out great... The uniform ideas seem to be a good idea for a more consistent look with WAGGGSS. Tho a little bead of sweat came off my forehead when they mentioned neckerchiefs....thought I was back in the BSA....then I read further about the tie...whew.... As for the names, I am a traditionalist and like Opt #1... I agree with the margarita reference on Opt #3...lol...and hope(pray) that National casually skips over this option However, I just can't see the young ladies referring to themselves as Sojourners, Navigators or Trailblazers. I can certainly appreciate the meanings behind the name, but why start changing the names just yet. Let's wait and see if the age/grade groups work first (which I am sure they will), then adapt the names later...besides....where is the collective Girl Scout member voice for such an important issue such as changing the Troop names???? I will make sure and cut and past the above and send it to National as well. Brian

As you can see by the date of my original District Indecision posting, my W2ST started just as the school year ended for my Webelos I. These are IMHO the timeframe I used... I thought I would get ahead of the curve so that the Troops in our area knew we were interested in visiting them. I liked meeting them in between WEBEI and WEBEII, but I think that the WDL's need a bit more time and help to understand what the transition entails. I would like to use the end of the Bear year for leaders to help them with their transition and introduce them to Troop leaders for a Q & A period. This way they can set their agenda for the next 20 months and feel comfortable knowing, contacting and visiting (or having visits) from local Troops (networking). This timeframe allowed me to work on the technical side (requirements) of the Webelos requirements and set up for an extremely fun WEBEII year (camping, canoeing, etc.) so the boys get excited to head to Boy Scouts. Then right before the summer starts for the kids moving into WEBEII, a visit from a Troop Leader (SM and ASM) will help the boys understand what adventures are to come with their final year in Cub Scouts so the boys can enjoy their summers, go to camp, ask questions of the camp counselors based on what they have been exposed to and head into their WEBEII with enthusiasm instead of trepidation. The more the scouts know, the more they are inclined to transition successfully. My Troop experiences did not happen at the end of WEBEI but at the beginning of WEBEII which was not that bad either.

I thought I would give everyone an update... I met with the District Director yesterday and he wants me to fill a new District position as Webelos Transition coordinater. I need to make sure I can devote the time to this position, but the District claims to have taken a serious look at my email from last year and they want to try it out. I am excited! Thanks for all of the encouragement.

I would also like to thank all of the members everyone who have helped me over the past year with my concerns and questions. The advice was well given and in many instances, was well heeded. My Webelos have all gone on to their respective Troops, Blue and Gold was a smash, and I look forward to many more years to come as a father, husband, involved scout parent, and volunteer to make a difference in young people's lives (especially my own kids) and this would not be possible without the SCOUTER forum and all of the unique individuals that are here to offer their time and answers, when many of us need guidance and direction. As well as those individuals that moderate and maintain this website... So a great big THANK YOU and look forward to many more years of participation. YIS, Brian

I sure don't envy your position but I think that the advice about calling law enforcement should do the trick... Also to consider...the other problems that might have contributed to her actions could be being a diabetic with low blood sugar and fruity smelling breath might appear as intoxication OR medication that has impaired the driver. You might want to ask her both of these questions but this should not prevent you from being concerned for the welfare of the children and contacting local law enforcement immediately.

Wow...lots to digest... I may end up trying a floor cloth wall hanging instead of cement so they can hang in their rooms plus it will be easier to put hand prints and foot prints on with paint. Then will use poles (broom stick handles) to hang on the bridge as they cross from one side to the other. Fantastically wonderful and great ideas (especially with the older mentors) - I look forward to reporting back after this May event and letting everyone know how well it went. However, if you still have thoughts, ideas, suggestions or guidance, please do not hesitate to keep it comin'. Thanks to all! Scoutndad

Great ideas...keep em comin'... I may incorporate both of those ideas since we do have a park nearby (complete with stream and bridge). The stepping stone idea is very cool and will suggest it to the leaders for their April meeting (I like projects with cement involved!) I also liked the idea of having a local Girl Scout contingency there and may look to some local troops to help me out. I know I was a bit cryptic with my opening message, but our school is a small private school without GSUSA involvement and the closest public school does not yet have active Girl Scout involvement. A friend of mine is fairly active in GSUSA and will ask if her girls would help out with the crossover ceremony but they are a bit further away... Thank you

I have finally phased myself out of Cub Scouts and am now devoting myself to my daughters and their involvement with Campfire and soon, Girl Scouts. Long story short, the Campfire HQ is deciding to disband and our Campfire leaders will be transitioning to Girl Scouts. And after a successful Cub Scout crossover ceremony to Boy Scouts, a couple of the leaders asked if I would do a crossover from Campfire to Girl Scouts for them. Any suggestions on how to make this crossover a hit? I must admit I am more comfortable with Cub Scouts, but I want to make a great impression on these young ladies (2nd & 3rd grade)so their Girl Scout experience will start off memorable. They would like it to take place in May (last meeting of the school year). Thanks Scoutndad

May not be official, but our new Tiger Den Leader opted for a red sash instead of a vest...her feeling was since the patches, pins, etc could not go on the cubbie uniforms, she was going to imitate the BSA sash...and I must say that the kids look GREAT in them. Another reason for her not going with the standard red vest, was that our local (younger) campfire girls, have red vests.

SR... My response to Trev's answer utilized a quip...of course Gore did not invent the internet and as an ardent reader of Barb Mikkelson's (sp) website, her info is useful for us to dispel rumors without having to do our own research. "Remember when the most embarrassing thing to happen to a vice-president was misspelling the word potato?" --Jimmy Kimmel Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot a man during a quail hunt ... making 78-year-old Harry Whittington the first person shot by a sitting veep since Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton, of course, (was) shot in a duel with Aaron Burr over issues of honor, integrity and political maneuvering. Whittington? Mistaken for a bird." --Jon Stewart

SR...the heck you say...you mean to tell me that a statement made by someone holding a political office was taken out of CONTEXT????? What is the world coming to...thank goodness Snopes.com will rescue us...kinda like Wikipedia and the Kennedy assasination huh... Gore is a smart guy (Harvard grad and the like)...my observation was that his quiet reserve should not be confused with intellect...he was and will always be overly cautious. It was a shame that he ran with someone who had a completely different approach (or wife-you pick) BTW, in Cheney's announcement yesterday, he declared that he has no idea what happened to the quail...

Interesting... Not sure about secretive for Cheney...controlling yes, but a necessary trait for his admin position with the current actions of the white house. Gore - serious and intellectual??? Inventor of the internet??? I think he was an asset to the white house but had no charisma. I think his quiet demeanor was misread as serious and intellectual. Even as a conservative, I thought he was a good #2 - but compared to the moral traits of his #1 - how could he not be??? Double yep on Quayle and Bush, Sr. Mondale - not unrealistic but hopeful as was his #1 guy - first VP with an office in the white house due to his extensive international relationship efforts assigned to him by his #1 & smart I am aging myself cuz when you throw out Rockefeller, all I can think of is money and the national Christmas tree locale.