Scoutndad

Wow...great replies...that's why I come to the forum. First off, yes...there are worse problems to have. Second, no...there are no additional health worries (possibly behavioral-not mental) that would create this atmosphere. Third, the boy is 12 and comes from a very good home that provides regular family time. Fourth, Dad does not interfere with the outings as much as the scout relies on Dad at the outings. How is the Patrol Method reinforced with the scouts if constant parental contact is the norm? Fifth, the dad GLADLY takes on other roles, but is continually used as a security blanket. The problem is the lack of dad's awareness of interdependency that is prevalent at the outings. I guess the idea of self reliance and self confidence is the biggest issue at stake. I think if left on his own, the scout would eventually thrive after a few "rough" outings. But again, the "problem" of an over involved dad comes with the idea that he is unaware that he is enabling his scouts dependency. So is it the PL, SM, another parent, - me - that approaches dad and asks when he will let his scout become independent?

I have started this message five times now. The title seems a bit misleading, but maybe not. There is a father in my son's troop and he is part of the adult leader team for the troop. This dad is an exceptional guy (maybe a bit naive)and his son is a pretty good kid, but could really benefit from scouts and the Patrol Method. The problem is that this boy has NEVER gone on a Troop outing without dad. The one time that dad had to leave 1 day ahead of time at a summer camp, the boy was a mess and needed to be constantly consoled. Now this boy has been selected for an honor guard (with my son), and dad is again going to attend. I know the obvious implications of my post, but can not help but think that there is no way the boy would be part of a Troop or go on outings with dad. To this point, there is no way the scout would advance in rank if not for dad's involvement with all of the outings. How does the Patrol Method relate to issues like this where active adult participation is encouraged, but constant involvement does not help the scout understand the patrol method and gain leadership experience? Qualifiers: The boy does not have any medical conditions that would support the father being there constantly. The boy is home-schooled, but seems to interact well with the other boys in the Troop. As I said, the dad is a great guy and would do anything for the Troop. Just was wondering if anyone else had over-involved parents and how the scouts turned out... Thanks

Kudos to those dads that join in their ddd activities including scouting. I have just completed my first year as a Brownie Troop leader (and I survived!), and I am happy to report that all of my families have re-registered for next year. I believe a portion of this success is due to the active registration of 90% of the dads in my troop which I encourage, and 100% of moms. I don't think it should be one or the other and I let my parents know that it is not a "drop and run" program.

Do you attend the monthly roundtable meetings? not consistently Do you even know what they are? oh yes Does your roundtable staff conduct good meetings? somewhat Are they worthwhile attending? when there is planned training involved, YES! May I digress for a moment - but staying close to the topic... A young WDL spoke up last night at our District mtg and suggested that if we wanted increased participation, that we should allow parents/leaders to bring their school age children. The DC and one other leader said that they had tried this many years ago and that there may be too many hurdles to jump, in order to make this happen since it is a District function. (ie, certified day care provider, certified cpr person, etc.) I think that they were trying to discourage it, but handled it tactfully. Just as Lisabob mentions dragging her son to the roundtables, I think that many leaders/parents are in the same boat and it may encourage participation if generally accepted. Does anyone have experience, rules and references? Thanks Scoutndad

Well said Cheerful Eagle....I almost took exception when you mentioned "that other organization", but it's true isn't it? Especially with those families that have no young ladies and are not exposed to GSUSA. But through good leaders and constant vigilance, we are and continue to be, one big scouting family! Although I am a newbie to GSUSA, I look forward to our Thinking Day celebration next Friday evening. My Brownies and I will be taking part (first time) in a Neighborhood Thinking Day celebration (theme is international birthday celebrations) and we will be promoting the values of scouting and having a great big b-day bash! YIS, Brian

My $.02.. Adults should wear uniform depending on the event that they are participating in (either GSUSA or BSA). Although I will say that the BSA adult uniform is a bit more to behold than the GSUSA adult uniform I would never think of showing disrespect to my BSA commitments by showing up with my shirt and tab...likewise to GSUSA commitments in my BSA uniform. As for kids, if there is a son that wants to attend with his sister AT his sister's Troop meeting, why not allow him to attend in his cubbie uniform. I agree with allowing a cubbie to take pride in his uniform. By the way, being in Grand Rapids and experiencing the interment of Gerald R Ford was quite a sight to behold with all of the cubbie and scout uniforms; banners and flags; and a good contingency of girl scouts who paid their respects while in their vests, tabs and sashes. I still think emphasizing the uniform for both boys and girls is an important part of the scouting experience.

I echo the sentiment in this thread... I was a Cub leader from Tigers through Webe II's and when my son was done, I told him it was time to go to his Troop without me as a leader (and much to my chagrin, he agreed readily). It is now my turn to start with my daughters and their GSUSA involvement and give them as much of my time as I can as a leader. I was also a bit disappointed about the firearm (bb gun included) exposure, but thought that we had enough local gun clubs that if I felt it was the right thing to do, my daughters could shoot competitively outside GSUSA. But much to my surprise, we (GSUSA council) also have a monthly program for ALL Troops for martial arts training....and the local camp has an archery range....so as I said, BSA nor GSUSA will dictate what my kids will be involved with, but it sure would be fun to do it as part of a Troop activity. As for getting dirty...I told my Brownie parents to expect it. Not to stereotype young ladies, but I think if you get them exposed to outdoor fun, or getting dirty, their love of nature will soon follow. (I had just as many cubbies sleep with night lights on and get grossed out by bugs than any young girls I know). Both camps are as much fun as we make them, and fortunately, I have strong councils on both sides that give us many training and activity opportunities. The GSUSA male leader stigma is something that I still need to adjust to since I appear to be an extreme minority (as oppposed to the multitudes of female leaders in Cub Scouts). And as for parents, I also told them that this was not a drop and run program and that I want them to be involved and see what their girls are doing so that they understand the experience of GSUSA. I also told them that I would expect at least one parent per family to spend $10 and become registered (opportunity fund not withstanding) so that when it came time to do some field trips, there were no misconceptions on who was driving or covered under the GSUSA policy. Our school girl scout troops also agreed to have a once a month meeting (similar to monthly cub scout pack meetings) so that the young girls can see what the older girls are doing and the older girls can strive to achieve more if they know that the younger ladies are emulating their involvement. Let the fun begin!

As a GSUSA newbie, I am ok with the program and uniform changes. I really appreciate the idea that they stuck with the traditional names. The grade splits seems to be fairly cohesive at the younger levels. The uniforms work for me and look forward to a universal WAGGGS look. I will wait to hear from any and all "experienced" leaders as to their $.02 worth on the program and uniform changes.

Difficult to describe but succinctly put WDL Mom...

Thanks Cheerful Eagle. I'm not giving up with this forum just yet. The response I had to my crossover question were GREAT and I look forward to touching base with some of those when scouts gets back into full swing....

IMHO Being their for your kids is the best way to live life and I would never condemn parental involvement with your kids, regardless of the activities or roles. But I do believe that there is a natural inclination to continue leadership roles in your childs life (BSA, sports, academics, etc) for obvious and not so obvious reasons, as your child gets older. With that said and in my observation, I see the idea of maintaining some type of leadership role in your own child's life, as a self-fulfillment need on behalf of the adult. But I think the answer is more succinct with Hunt's response. And to answer your question, no, I think that there should be a First Class Badge waiting period for any new leadership positions within a Troop. Once your scout has become First Class, then the adult can join in (gets the practical experience and the BSA mentality part (camp outs, service projects, etc) out of the way instead of learning on the fly). I think we miss viable resources (parents who don't own khaki shirts when their scout first joins) by not enforcing some type of waiting period. Personally, I became involved with a District that I was critical of previously and that my son no longer belongs to. I now get to work on issues (not necessarily solve) that will help continue the BSA legacy in this District, and hopefully provide a useful resource for years to come. Additionally, I signed up as a Merit Badge Counselor for my sons Troop (resource), but recognized that their are other parents that step in as well as I can. Then with nothing else to do (LOL)I became a Girl Scout leader and will continue that role until another leader steps in or I can no longer maintain my responsibilities to the GSUSA program. MHO

OK...it may be just me, but is there another forum where GSUSA is discussed and I'm missing it (or is it just for the A-listers...lol)??? I always thought that Scouter.com was a fantastic site for BSA references, questions, philosophical rants, and advice, but I see little action under the Girl Scouting forum. Is it just me or is there a better resource forum for Girl Scouting??? When I first started posting on Scouter.com, it was because I had a serious quesiton re Cub Scouts and needed advice (which paid off HUGE). As a silent reader in the wings, I was intimidated by the amount of posters that bled blue, gold, khaki and sometimes green, and was quiet until I realized what a great benefit it was to be a posting member. Now that I am in GSUSA, I still look to those with great tips, suggestions and resources....so where are they???? Scouter.com is still a favorite website for me and I will continue to peruse the discussions, but I also look forward to all of you silent "in the wings" types, to start posting under this forum so I can see what great things I have to look forwad to (or not) in GSUSA. BTW, I did use earlier advice from this forum on the crossover from Campfire to GSUSA and it went GREAT! YIS, Brian Newbie Brownie Leader Brownie Girl Scout Troop 3047 Ada, MI

Agree with Hunt 100% and give props to Fuzzy Bear on laying it all out there.... I see it happening with different Packs and Troops... once the Webelos parent has crossed over their scout, they continue to entice, encourage and even nag at their scout. Some succumb to the call of the really cool uniform and stay involved which is great, but then you see as many adult tans as you do youth tans and I wonder who the program is all about. The first year is critical for the scout to know that his parent(s) support his involvement, but pushing the program and requirements is typically contrary to the mentality of young men, as is the social impact of the parent joining in a leadership role when the scout needs his space to grow. I would retract this last statement if the Troop NEEDED adult leadership, but I never see the lack of resources in my area for this - typically happens at the Cub level. Good luck

I think the age splits are a great idea! For the reasons (and examples) outlined by purcelce I am not even into my first Brownie year yet but I see where the social group ideas will work out great... The uniform ideas seem to be a good idea for a more consistent look with WAGGGSS. Tho a little bead of sweat came off my forehead when they mentioned neckerchiefs....thought I was back in the BSA....then I read further about the tie...whew.... As for the names, I am a traditionalist and like Opt #1... I agree with the margarita reference on Opt #3...lol...and hope(pray) that National casually skips over this option However, I just can't see the young ladies referring to themselves as Sojourners, Navigators or Trailblazers. I can certainly appreciate the meanings behind the name, but why start changing the names just yet. Let's wait and see if the age/grade groups work first (which I am sure they will), then adapt the names later...besides....where is the collective Girl Scout member voice for such an important issue such as changing the Troop names???? I will make sure and cut and past the above and send it to National as well. Brian

As you can see by the date of my original District Indecision posting, my W2ST started just as the school year ended for my Webelos I. These are IMHO the timeframe I used... I thought I would get ahead of the curve so that the Troops in our area knew we were interested in visiting them. I liked meeting them in between WEBEI and WEBEII, but I think that the WDL's need a bit more time and help to understand what the transition entails. I would like to use the end of the Bear year for leaders to help them with their transition and introduce them to Troop leaders for a Q & A period. This way they can set their agenda for the next 20 months and feel comfortable knowing, contacting and visiting (or having visits) from local Troops (networking). This timeframe allowed me to work on the technical side (requirements) of the Webelos requirements and set up for an extremely fun WEBEII year (camping, canoeing, etc.) so the boys get excited to head to Boy Scouts. Then right before the summer starts for the kids moving into WEBEII, a visit from a Troop Leader (SM and ASM) will help the boys understand what adventures are to come with their final year in Cub Scouts so the boys can enjoy their summers, go to camp, ask questions of the camp counselors based on what they have been exposed to and head into their WEBEII with enthusiasm instead of trepidation. The more the scouts know, the more they are inclined to transition successfully. My Troop experiences did not happen at the end of WEBEI but at the beginning of WEBEII which was not that bad either.