ScoutMomAng

Keep in mind that Boy Scouts is a whole 'nother animal than Cub Scouts or Girl Scouts. A well run Boy Scout Troop is entirely boy led. That means that while it is fine to put together a list of oportunities in the area, new, interesting places to go & things to do, that should be about the extent of your input. This is exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to find out what things they like to do, but from what I understand their ideas have been somewhat lax I guess because even though the former SM claims it has been boy led it seems they have been more adult persuaded/boy led. So, I figure, if I compile a questionnaire to give them ideas and find out if they might be interested in doing some things they may have never done before, I can then later compile a list of places they can go do the things they would like to do and they can choose from the list of places which ones are more appealing to them. I plan on having SEVERAL places they can do most things that way they can choose where they want to go and get the prices and dates and all the other stuff put together. I totally understand that I have to make sure the permits are sent out and all the other paper work. I just want them to know, because I'm not sure they realize it, that they can do a whole lot more than they have been doing. I think there should be some type of "library" of things and places to do so they can choose what to do. mn_scouter---thanks for the ideas! Do you have many alligators to wrestle in Minnesota???? : ) Ang

Thanks...that helps a lot! Still would like to know, though, what other troops have done that have been successful. Anybody out there that can help? Ang

I'm new to this Boy Scouting stuff, however, not new to scouting. I have been in Cub Scouts with my sons and Girl Scouts with my daughter. I have signe on as my sons Troop Outdoor Activities Coordinator (somebody thought I'd be good at it). However, just coming out of cub scouts and knowing the strict rules in Girl Scouting, I must ask...are there limits to what a Boy Scout can do? What are some other outdoor activities that boys can participate in, besides camping, canoeing, kayaking...etc. Ang

Why my daughter doesn't like GS? To hear her tell it, "because it isn't fun anymore" I'm not really her leader anymore. I am listed as the leader of her troop but I'm also the leader of the Juniors and the Co-leader of the Brownies and Daisies that meet with us. Since I am the main leader of the Juniors I let my Cadette/junior co-leader take over the cadettes. My daughter really doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the troop, although more-so than the other cadette troop that meets down the street. My daughter has, for over a year, decided to dress in all black (but it doesn't bother me because I know she's still a good kid), has started listening to different music than some of her GS friends. I don't know that being a girl scout is my dream. I never asked her to join, she asked me. However, I will not let her quit in the middle of a season or year. She must finish out her current membership before I will allow her to quit. That is my husbands and my rule. It is also our rule that she finds something else constructive to do, whether it be a sport, volunteering or joining something else. She would like to help out at the Humane Society, which we said was okay. She does not have to go on every outing, although, we have made it very clear with all three of our children that unless they have some pressing homework that MUST be completed or they are sick they must attend meetings. As a matter of fact, as a Cadette, I would say they have gone less places than they did as Juniors. But with every outing they did as Cadettes, my daughter said she didn't want to go, even though afterward she seemed to have fun with it. She doesn't have to wear the uniform unless we go on outings and then they are given the option of the vest/sash or the troop t-shirt. She ALWAYS chooses the vest because she can still wear all black with only the vest over top...she really hates the BRIGHT yellow shirt we chose for a troop t-shirt. As for other kids at school making fun of her, I taught her how to deal with that, so that is not a problem. I just don't want her to look back later in life, like I did, and say, "Dang! Why didn't I stay in GS (I never joined)? I could've had SO much more fun" Especially knowing she could get a scholarship to college based on the fact that she was a GS for so long and earned her Silver and Gold awards. She did however, mention, a while ago, that she would like to joing the Venturing program the BSA has. Ang

Well, I must say that I've only been on this forum for almost 6 months (I think) and I have learned a lot! I love this place. This is the first place I go when I need answers. Our council isn't the best run council and because of that I'm sure many of our troops and packs are not the best run either, but we are doing the best we can with what we have. When I took Webelos Training last year I can honestly say I did not learn a thing! : ) I'm new to the troop but I have been with my son through cub scouts (his leader for the last 3 years) and I've been in Girl Scouts for four years. This is my first encounter with BOY Scouts, but I plan on sticking around for a long time. Many of our parents on our committee have been around for a long time but only with this council and this troop. Some of our parents have been here and there. I promise you, that I'm not a quiet person and I will see that things get done for the boys. I appreciate the information on how to contest a BOR. I keep getting new information everyday about the situation at hand and I found out, to make matters worse, is that the "Phil" earned these same three badges within another council, however, there are no records, which in turn forced the boy to have to do them again, which in my opinion may have been the reason he had the cards for over a year before completing the merit badge work. My guess is since he turned 18 somewhere mid-April and he received his last three merit badges end of April he must not have made his Eagle, but who knows. I could still be very very wrong. I do know that the old SM is not my favorite person and has not been for the past 3 years, and to know now, that he added his own rules to make by-laws makes me not like him even more. I will let everybody know when it comes time to sit down Monday for a review of the By-laws the stuff I know and I will make sure I have the books that were mentioned above at hand to prove to them that their really seems no need to have a by-laws if we just run this troop the way the BSA has designed it to run. We have a few newer parents, not as new as me, that prefer to sit and listen but not make waves. I promise I'm the wave maker! : ) Thanks again, for all your help, and keep feeding me more information I like it! Bob---when I get more by-laws (which I don't think I will after Monday), I will send them your way! Ang

Dan, I'm not sure if "Phil" made Eagle. My guess would be he probably did which is why the older committee members made such a big stink about it, however, I would think if somebody made Eagle there would be a bigger to-do about the Eagle Award. At the last Court of Honor, two weeks ago, he was only presented with the three Merit Badges...so I guess I can not truthfully answer that question. Sorry, but remember I'm very new to the troop. One Court of Honor, one committee meeting, that's it. Ang

Unc, Yes, yes, yes...TM=SM. Sorry, sometimes I get Girl Scouts and Cub/Boy Scout stuff crossed. Please forgive me! Ang

OGE--- Well, one would think that as a NEW parent to the troop I would have a copy of the "by-laws" but seems they forgot to issue that group of papers. However when we get together to make new by-laws I will let them know what I know and maybe the troop could be a happier place! Ang PS--when I get them I will be more than happy to post some of the ridiculous so you can all have a good laugh. As you may be able to tell, I'm not too fond of the past TM, who put many of these "by-laws" into effect.

My daughter says she is no longer interested in Girl Scouts but everytime we go camping she seems to spark that interest all over again. She toys with my emotions all year long and it is really starting to get on my nerves! She is a cadette, not "Stupid 2b" as she calls it. I realize they are wishy-washy at this age but is there by any chance in your opinion that I can sign her up as a Juliette and do things without her knowing it??? I would love for her to stay in it because I don't want her to look back later and say, "I wish I would've stayed a GS". Ang

Eamonn---Sorry I lost you, next time I'll go slower! LOL No really, Thanks for the reply! My husband and I read what we could read in the past two days about Merit Badge Counselors and pretty much came up with what you had said but we just wanted to be sure before we went spouting off. Ang

Okay...I was going to post the reason the by-laws need to be updated according to the committee...remember I'm the NEWEST member of the committee. First day on the job was Monday. I can already tell you that the reason for updating the by-law is already a BSA policy and doesn't really need a by-law so let me throw that reason out there so you can all tell me your view...even though this really belongs in another forum. Okay...from what I understand this boy in the troop...lets call him Phil turned 18 sometime in April. A year ago, he was given the blue cards for three merit badges that applied toward his Eagle award. A Merit Badge counselor was not "assigned" because there were three people that could be the counselor, however, only two were published on the last updated list this past November. (Stay with me cause it gets long). Obviously since it was getting close to his 18th birthday he needed to hurry up and finish the requirements to get his Eagle. Apparently, he called one counselor (this stuff didn't come out until AFTER the big meeting), and she couldn't help him because her son had just had surgery and she needed to be there for him. So he apparently called the other counselor for these three badges and and she could never seem to make time for him. Well, apparently the current by-laws, which are at the very least 5 yrs old, state that a boy can not have his own parent as a counselor. However, on the blue cards at the Court of Honor had no signature where the counselor was supposed to sign, they did however have initials for the requirements. The initials appeared to be ABC, well that happens to be the same initials as one of the counselors, so the former troop master, who has some other role in the troop now I don't remember what it is, asked this person to sign for counselor. She told the former TM that she was not his counselor and those were not her initials...you can guess the rest of that arguement, which led us to this meeting. In the meeting it apparently turns out that the ABC is actually not ABC it is something totally different and happens to be his dad. But the "by-laws" say his dad could not be his couselor, which we find out is a rule the former TM put in to cover whatever. The dad happens to be an Eagle Scout recipient. The new TM says it doesn't matter who the counselor was as long as he completed the requirements which he believes he did. So......to prevent this from happening again they want to "update" the by-laws. Okay....I need a nap now cause this wears me out!!! : ) Ang PS---if there is anybody from this troop that recognizes this situation, and is just "lurking", I appologize if I seem to be stirring the pot but I like to get as much information as possible in order to do things right.

Who is supposed to update the by-laws of a troop?? How often should they be reviewed and updated? I just signed on as my son's troop committee outdoor recreation coordinator but the rest of the committee is starting to work on the by-laws because we had some issues recently...which are long and drawn out and need a new post which will come soon in another forum. I value all your wisdom and knowledge so please help me to understand something new to me that I may have had different thoughts on. Ang

Can I put two cents in the pot? My 12 yr. old daughter, a Cadette Girl Scout, has decided twice now that she didn't want to be in GS...I knew it was because of the kids at school. It was hard to keep her going. The first time I said, "Look, I can only tell you what I know and that is this....when I was a kid, "scouts was not cool... it was for dorks". Nobody told me that, its just what I thought...now that I'm a leader I'm so glad I'm getting to do the things that I missed out on when I was a kid because of what "I thought". I thank God everyday for you, because you put me into Girl Scouts and I've done things that I would've never done on my own" That changed her mind for a while...then it started all over again. She has been dressing in all black, which I know is a phase and I still know she is a good kid because I watch her every move. She's smart and gets awesome grades. So when she came to me again this year and said, "I hate GS..I want out!!! Why can't I get out and you stay in?" I told her she could get out, but first she had to tell me WHY she really wanted out and if she got out she had to find something to do besides tv, and computer and talking on the phone. (She's not a "girly girl" so the latter wasn't really an issue). She hesitated to tell me but I finally drug it out of her. Again, it's because of the kids at school (she's in 7th grade this year). I asked her this, "When you started dressing in all black and wearing the things you wear didn't people ask you why and make fun of you for dressing like that?" Of course her answer was yes. I asked her, did that make you want to change the way you dressed? She said, "No...it made me want to do it more!" I said, "well then, why would you care what "big head Billy" says about GS when he's never done it and has no idea what it's about? And won't he look silly when he's still flipping burgers and you are working a wonderful job because you went to college on a free ride because of GS"...it has worked for now. Kids this age just want to fit in, and if most of their friends aren't doing scouts then they don't want to either. My advice, and I asked my daughter the same thing, bring a friend on a really cool outing, or even a troop meeting. Let the friends find out what it is really all about. Maybe they will even join! sorry...just my two cents. Ang

OakTree, Hmmmmmm....having trouble starting this one....don't want to admit I was wrong (or you are right or even vice versa). What I know is that MY ADD and ADHD children showed almost no signs of near genius before their diagnosis, (except my daughter but that's a long story for another day). When I took them in for their diagnosis...all at different times, I dared the psychologist to "label" my children ADD or ADHD. He tested the middle one, (the one that just crossed over) and I was by no means expecting what he told me. He was smart, and VERY smart at that, however he was ADD. I didn't believe it. He gave me some books to read, I read, I believed. I went back. He sat me down and he told me that from studies most children with ADD or ADHD do not normally seem very smart, but given the medication and taken as directed over about 2 years most teachers (at least in our area) end up putting the ADD and ADHD children in the TAG (Talented and Gifted) Program, and he anticipated that with DJ. It only took about a year before the teachers started talking...I put a halt to it because it was making him a nervous nelly. So, according to the doctor we seen, "Most children with ADD or ADHD push the near genius status" I suppose there are studies out there that will contradict it and there are studies out there that will support it. It's a condition that has been around for a long time yet not enough research has been done. Maybe the doctor was wrong to say "Most" (and me too), and probably would've been better off saying "MANY" (and me too). However, I still don't think this boy needs to be sent on his way, at least not yet. Get a plan of action first, find out what works, find out what doesn't and have his mother NOT attend at least a few meetings. Sit down with the other boys and explain to them a little of what is going on with this boy and ask for their help. Surely some of them go to school with him and may even be in his class, maybe they know something the teacher does to keep him on the straight. This is definitely one boy that NEEDS cub Scouting. What a shame it has taken this long for somebody to care enough to find out what else could be done. Hindsight is always 20/20. However, when you find something that does work, make sure you pass that information on with him, to the new den leader, to the new scout master or whomever so they know and they don't have to go through the same thing. I think the pack has been patient with the boy but it doesn't seem like they have really seriously looked to see what works for the boy. I think they need to give it more time before they oust him. JMHO ScoutmomAng

Hi all! My son is ADD, one of the boys in the den was ADHD (7 just crossed over), and I believe 2 others were also at the very least ADD. The best way to handle it, from a mother's point of view, and a den leader's point of view. 1st--ask the mom, the teacher, the counselor at school what works for him and when. 2nd---ask the mom NOT to come to den meetings (I promise you once the boy knows that the den leader runs the program and he has to do what the den leader says because mom's not there to "protect" him his behavior will change. Do you honestly think he acts like that at school? ADHD is a medical problem and most things he can not help, however, he is old enough to know that if he's been told once or twice it is time to stop whatever he is doing to disrupt. Remember, I am a parent of an ADD son (actually one ADD son, one ADD daughter and one ADHD son). Also, if he is on medication it all depends on when your den meetings are compared to what type and time of medication he is on if any. If the boy is on anything like Concerta, or Adderrall XR, they are time released and only needs one dose through the day (generally) but if he is given that medication at 7 am you can bet that for sure by 7 pm it has worn off (they say 12 hours but sometimes it doesn't quite stretch that long), so another guess would be to find out what time he takes his medicine if it is time released and if you can, re-work your den meetings earlier so that meds haven't wore off. If he is on anything that is not time released Ritalin or the new stuff that is non-stimulant---you're out of luck really cause they don't last too long...maybe 4 hours tops. Problem with giving any of these medications any later is it disrupts the sleep pattern. As for the boys that are moving away from him or don't sit near him. They have a right to sit away from him. He is disrupting their fun and learning. Maybe they think he will figure it out sooner or later and stop but he has no control so they need to be told (when the other boy is not around), that they probably should try to help him control himself instead of walking away from him. As for Special Needs, I never have considered any of my ADD or ADHD children Special Needs. They are not Special Needs children. They are VERY bright children (most ADD and ADHD children are in the near genius range) but sometimes their brains kind of short circuit and they blurt things out (answers, statements whatever) before others have a chance. They do before they think. A child without ADD or ADHD has time to think before reacting. If you keep the boys going from sitting to standing, or from reading to talking, (constantly change what is happening) you will find that the boy will be easier to handle. ADD and ADHD children have trouble staying focused....not necessarily paying attention they just get bored doing one thing (sitting). I'm not sure what he is doing to disrupt but if the boys are sitting and learning something how about if every once in a while the leader said, "BREAK!" and they all got up and took one lap around the room or the table? That would be enough to give that boy a few more minutes of still time. Just my thoughts as a mom and den leader. ScoutMomAng

Kenk, My 7 boys were exposed to many troops in our area. Actually they were exposed to 4 of 5 local troops. The boys were given the opportunity to make their own decisions. Low and behold, they all chose to stay together on their own. They are not by any means "best" friends outside the den. They don't play at each others houses and only see each other at school (some in the same classes, most are not and do not have recess here for 5th graders) or den meetings and scout activities. They all chose the same troop. One originally had chosen to go to a different troop but later, due to circumstances, chose to go with the other boys. I think they talk among themselves (maybe telepathically even). I came through the last three years with several of these boys and I'm a proud mother hen to see them go onward but am also heartbroken that they will no longer be with me in my den. I love the Webelos level! The boys had a "lock-in" at the scout hut this past weekend with their new troop and all 7 boys have earned their scout and are working toward their Tenderfoot! So short a time and already progressing through ranks! I'm happy and sad at the same time. My boy is no longer a baby!!! Ang

"It never ceases to amaze me that the parents of Cub Scouts, who have absolutely zero experience in the Boy Scout program, seem to always question the "wisdom" of experienced Scoutmasters. Yes, I know that sounds arrogant but ... Why don't parents simply ask why the Scoutmaster, or more correctly, the BSA program, is structured in that manner. " Ummmm...most of these parents were Boy Scouts at one time or another and remember how it was done when they were in. Second of all, when you first tell a group of parents that now that these boys are fresh out of Cub Scouts and into Boy Scouts they will be their own patrol, with no idea of how a real patrol is supposed to run, in a "Boy run program" for them to make their own mistakes, it is a little scary. No matter how much your boy wants to be grown up or how excited you might be that he went over to Boy Scouts and will have more adventures, it is hard to imagine that, the boys that like to laugh and joke at everything, the boy that knows it all and is arrogant about it and nobody can stand, the boys that are quiet and wouldn't stand up for themselves for much of anything, the boy that doesn't like to camp because he doesn't like bugs, the boy that constantly "What if...." everything or the boys that think everything should revolve around a game controller, are now going to be making their own decisions and going out to rough it with little or no experience in leadership. I do like, however, that Proud Eagle spelled it all out. If he were the one to be the new Webelos troop guide I would feel very comfortable knowing my boy was going to be part of his own patrol. I'm sure there are boys in the troop they are going to that will be like Proud Eagle and will help them out, but I know this is a pretty young troop for the most part and I know some of the boys............ 'nuff said on that. Some of the parents are still leary, but I have talked with them and have assured them that they will be okay and that the patrol is not a permanent patrol. Out of 7 boys parents I still have one that is leary about the whole idea but that has been the guy that has always been the tough nut to crack. One of three things will happen with that. Either he will figure it out and be okay with it, he'll be there to guide his son's way the whole time, or he'll pull him out into another troop which will probably have the boy quitting scouts. I'm hoping the first choice is his but I can only do so much. They are now Boy Scouts. I'm just the WeBeLoS leader. Thanks again for all the input and the help. I purchased all 7 boys their books today to present to them at their crossover ceremony so I will make sure that each parent reads the page that talks about the New Scout Patrol. Ang

Maybe this policy the Girl Scouts have is the reason my daughter and many of her friends wish they could be boy scouts! They know they can join the Ventures when they are 14 but they are not the right age yet. Next year my daughter will be a Juliette (Lone Scout) because she does not like how Girl Scouts is being run. As for men leaders needing a second in charge...not necessarily so. I can tell you of one local troop here that is and has been run by a man for several years. And as far as I know he doesn't have another leader. Council here does background checks also but that background check doesn't prove to be great. A background check run on anybody does not mean that you will find out if that person is gay or lesbian. You will not find out if that person is going to run off with the cookie money. All you are going to find out is whether that person has a criminal background. While searching online one time I found a couple of ladies that started their own "Girl Scouts". It is christian based and run more like cub/boy scouts. Ang

"I checked out going to the CC, but discovered he is an elderly relative of the SM. I called the single mom and offered to share my tent. She had already gone out and gotten one, but was happy to talk a while. She is very frustrated. Like me, she had decided to go ahead and attend the campout and then make a decision. Unfortunately, her son, like mine, wants very nmuch to stay with all his buddies. My husband and I sat down and had a talk with my son. My husband told him that he wasn't "raising any children who didn't respect half of the population" and if he saw any of that coming from our son his involvement with this troop would be over. My son surprised us both by telling us that he didn't care if the SM wanted me there, he wanted me there and that's what mattered. He also said when he was SPL (ambitious little dude, isn't he?) he would push to be sure women were welcome. Having spoken with my son and seen how strongly he feels, I agree with the poster who said moving him to another troop would probably result in him leaving scouting. He loves it so much, I don't want that to happen. Yesterday afternoon he put up and took down his tent by himself on the front lawn until he could do it alone in under ten minutes. This took a while since the neighbor kids and a stray father insisted on helping a few times, before finally going off to put up a tent in their own front yards. Though his sister sat on the porch to encourage (or harrass) him, I stayed in the house so I wouldn't be tempted to help. Then last night after sports he had me drive him to a dark field near the house so he could time himself and see how long it took him to put up his tent alone in the dark - 18 minutes. I stood on the side of the road and watched him quietly. From a mother's perspective those were 18 wonderful minutes. I don't want to intrude on his Boy Scout experience, but I don't want to miss out on it either. I'm going camping. Maybe I should practice putting up my own tent. "---Scoutscooter This post made me cry tears of joy!!!! I have to agree with Cajuncody and Vicki...I'd be right there on that log with them...maybe not as well "earned" as Vicki but I'd be there! Also, very glad to hear that even though this SM has a No Women attitude it can not stray the mind of an 10-12 year old boy that was raised by caring, loving parents willing to teach him right from wrong! BRAVO. Ang

Hey Guys! Thanks for the information...After reading your posts, I vaguely remember him saying something about an older boy being their guide, but he told me this during the Webelos visit to the Troop. All the other parents were there, however, when the parents get together they tend to chat amongst themselves. My den made several visits to several troops in the area and interviewed each Scout Master, but didn't seem to "interrogate" this Scout Master with as much zest as the others. Maybe because my husband is moving on with the boys? Maybe because we are all military and feel more comfortable with another military leader? Maybe because they got tired of asking questions? (We visited 4 troops total). I don't know really but that was the case. If the information is in the Scout Handbook, then I will have the parents read that information when the boys get their books at the Crossover ceremony. Thanks for the information. I do appreciate it. Ang

I'm the den leader of 7 Webelos II boys and one Webelos I boy. The 7 Webelos II will be crossing over in a few days. All the boys will be going to the same troop and the Scoutmaster has made mention that these boys will become a new Scout Patrol within his the troop. The other parents are concerned that these boys will be in the Patrol together without an older boy to guide them along the way. The general consensus is that it will be like the blind leading the blind. How do I get the parents to "let go" and let the boys learn from their mistakes? I have already told the Scoutmaster of the parents feelings but he still prefers to set it up this way. I've gave him as much information as I can about the boys, some are shy and quiet and very easy going. Hard for them to make decisions. I've told him about the boy that is as smart as they come (truthfully), however he is egotistical about his knowledge and the other boys truely don't like him but make the best of it. How some boys think everything is fun and games. I've explained each boy to the Scoutmaster yet he still insists on doing this. I personally don't mind because my son will figure it out, whether it be the hard way or not. I've tried to reassure the parents that I think it will be okay because my husband is joining the Scout Master as his ASM and I think it has worked somewhat but they are still uneasy. How do I make them feel more comfortable so they don't pull their boys out of this troop before it even gets started with our boys in there? Or maybe it's not my place to worry??? Ang

Right side up??? You mean theres a difference??? Oh Wow!!! I better go check my Knot! Yes..one knot! But Jiminy Cricket...this isnt the military...its scouts! Give a boy credit for even getting it on there, in the general area, especially if he did it himself! Ang

encsteph, You have to remember first I started with my GS knowledge, since that is the information I had. I learned EVERYTHING I thought needed to be known about the popcorn we were selling. If you can get samples of some of it for the pack to try go for it. I made a list of do's and don'ts for selling popcorn. 1. Greet your customer! Hi! How are you doing today? (This we tested this year with my boys, neither of which are good speakers but when Mom jumped in and started with a warm greeting of Hi How are you doing today? and the back and forth of that conversation...great and you? blah blah blah...I let the boys make their pitch...that generated a sale 7 out of 10 times!) 2. Don't sell after dark. 3. Don't go alone. 4. Take an adult (not just an older sibling) when money taking is involved. I'm sure you can make a good list of do's and don'ts on your own. Teach the boys the safety points. Have the parents work with them before going out. Do some demos in the pack meeting. Grab a boy...tell him to come to the "door" and sell you popcorn. Then grab an adult that can act like a boy or if you have a very outgoing boy that can do it have him come to the door and sell you popcorn very enthusiastically, with clear speech. Make sure the boys understand the right way and the wrong way to sell popcorn. Play out a few scenarios....Be the stranger and ask the boy to step in....when he does correct him immediately...you are a stranger he doesn't know you. Be firm on your safety rules and etiquette. Tell the boy you aren't interested...see if he still says Thank you. Tell the boy you are on a diet and don't need any popcorn...see if he comes up with on his own that Popcorn in the tin makes a GREAT gift! Tell the boy you are a diabetic (you'll hear it a lot), and see if the boy can come up with his own solution as to sell that popcorn to that customer. Then I presented to the pack the biggest item we wanted out of the popcorn funds. That first year it was a BRAND NEW aluminum Pinewood Derby track with digital timer and read out. I got them excited about racing their cars on a brand new track...being the first ones to race down the new track. I hyped it up. I talked about the trophies they could win. When I made this pitch I got excited myself. I love selling (guess that's why I work at Wal~Mart...LOL). If you can get prizes to keep them motivated that will help. Get weekly prizes. Ask stores for donations...Wal~Mart, Target, K-Mart whatever. Ask early so that you have them on hand. In the first week you tell them...the first one to come to the next den meeting with $100.00 in sales gets this model rocket! They will race into the den meetings to be the first one there, especially if they have met the goal. Keep reminding them of these prizes via e-mail and phone calls if you have time (I didn't...too many boys to call). Make sure you get a big prize...bigger than what the fundraiser itself has to offer for the top seller in the pack. Bring that prize to every den meeting, every pack meeting and every event so that you can keep reminding the boys (and the parents) what they can take home. To make a great selling point for the parents, first make a list of all the things you plan on doing with that money. Then read it off....for example, since we have a large tourist area I read off something like this: How would you like your boys to be able to go to Miracle Strip Park and Ship Wreck Island for free? How about a day at the zoo for free? How about a trip to the USS Alabama for free? How about have the pack pay for your pinewood derby cars? How about....I'm sure you get the idea. Then for the last thing ask the parents directly...look out into the crowd of parents and pitch this as the kicker. "How would you like your son to get a scholarship towards college education just by selling popcorn? How about if you could make that scholarship grow with each passing year and none of the money comes from your pocket?" When you explain how this can be done you will see many parents very eager to get in on that program. Go to Trails end website and print off the story of the Wolf scout that sold $7,000.00 (I believe that was the amount). When you get to the trails end website go to Councils then click on Kernals Journals and on the right side there is a list of Unit Articles. Read them...get LOTS of information from them. Another good thing, we learned the hard way, don't let the pack plan a ton of events for every weekend during popcorn season. Our pack had something fun scheduled every weekend during popcorn sales. It made it hard for the boys to decide whether they were going to go have fun or go sell popcorn. And yes, the uniform does make a fantastic impression. Maybe I should just put my "training" onto a video tape and distribute it to packs! LOL

"You're right that the US should have a standard cutoff date to make it easier for those who move around a lot. But another problem is, is that not all schools, I'm talking about elementary, junior & senior high schools, start in September. I have a friend in Florida & her kids started school I believe in the middle of August, they finised in the middle of May I believe! EEK! August is too hot!" The US should have a lot of National Standards when it comes to school and people who have to move a lot. I too am affiliated with the military and have faced states with better educational schools than others and has caused a lot of turmoil among my children. You are right that not all states schools start the first of September...I am in Florida, currently and we start the FIRST week of AUGUST....this upcoming school year it will be August 5th!!!!! And they still get out in the middle of May! Usually with no Easter Break except Good Friday. August is WAY too hot here in Florida...even in the Panhandle...to be going to school. But as for the boy advancing, I would think he would be bored doing Tigers again, but that is just me. Maybe he would enjoy it. I think the parents should make the ultimate decision. I look at it this way...say the boy doesnt start Cub scouts until he is 9 years old but he got held back a grade in Kindergarten so he is only in the second grade because his birthday is late. With his age he is eligible to start in Bears but his classmates would be starting Wolves...where do you put him??? As for when he gets to Webelos...if the boy hasn't finished 4th grade by the time he is 11 does he HAVE to move up to Boy Scouts or could he ultimately hang out and do Webelos I and II in one year only completing the basic requirements to get Webelos and AOL??? Just points to ponder. Ang

Hey there! My first year as Popcorn Kernal I implemented the Ideal Year of Scouting but I didn't do it as the "Ideal Year Of Scouting". Let me elaborate a little here. The Council I'm in, at the time I became Popcorn Kernal was a little lax in the training department so I took what I knew from my Girl Scout Cookies and implemented it into the Cub Scouts Popcorn Sales! Then later in the year the Ideal Year of Scouting was discussed...hmmmm...sounded a little familiar! Anyway, when I implemented it our pack was selling about a $2,000.00 in popcorn the year before. I took it to the boys, got them excited about what the pack wanted to spend all that money on, and next thing I knew we increased our sales by $7,000.00 with only about 15 boys selling! The council was thoroughly impressed and asked what I had done. That's when I found out about the Ideal Year of Scouting. This year we did it on the "fly". In a hurry. There wasn't really a lot of incentive for the boys to sell because most of the boys were new to the pack (I believe this is what happened anyway) so they weren't too interested in going to Day Camp for free and parents didn't seem to know exactly what that meant. We didn't sell very well this year. We actually dropped in sales with MORE boys selling. Wasn't a good thing but we still came out with a prety good chunk of change. We (I) also went to the local Wal~Mart and asked for a donation for the month of whatever. We got $50.00. I took that money and bought a HUGE remote control car for the top sales person. That was an incentive enough for a Wolf to sell $1500.00 in popcorn! One other thing you need to do is to "train" the boys on selling. The right way and the wrong way. The upbeat way as opposed to the, "hi..wanna buy some popcorn?" way. You have to make it look fun and get them excited. Especially your Webelos because they are going to look at it as, "my son won't benefit from it so I'm not going to push him to sell it if he doesn't want to" (at least this was the experience we seemed to have). But as for implementing it, you should get as many adult leaders in your pack/troop together to set the budget for your pack and the goal of each boy to raise. Hope all that info helped. Or was I just rambling????? Ang