scoutingagain
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Secret Boy Scout Spices
scoutingagain replied to SeattlePioneer's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Don't know if it counts as a spice, but I've observed that no matter how badly burned or charred a cobbler or apple crisp might be, if enough miles are hiked prior to the cooking of said cobbler or crisp, it always seems to be consumed. SA -
Well I've read through this thread and come to the same conclusion madkins did. So, we should probably ban Capture the Flag as well. It simulates conflict and territorial aggression. Part of the game is to take prisoners and they could be potentially be "abused." It would also take up time kids could be doing other adult structured activities. I'm also reminded of a game my son learned at summer camp. It was described as an Indian(as in Native American) wrestling game and involved physical contact with other scouts. It was shown to him by members of the camp staff. It involved trying to move an opponent outside of a circle, while maintaining contact with the opponent. (No hitting, mostly a little shoving and pushing in a controlled way.) We were at a local camporee and some of the scouts in our troop were engaged in the game when scouts from the unit next to us started watching. The scouts in our unit explained the game to the scouts in the other unit and started to play with them. A leader from the other unit observed this physical contact between scouts of two different units and ran over and pulled the two scouts apart and yelled at the scouts like they were school yard bullies. So no games with physical contact. No games that simulate conflict. No games that don't support advancement. Oh and don't have games where there is competition because someone might lose. Yet we are supposed to try and attract boys between the ages of 11 & 18 and we wonder why scouting has such a reputation as being a kind of "geek" activity. SA
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Since we have stopped doing MBs at troop meetings we have fewer scouts earning MBs(no suprise) but there is a wider variety. Occaisonally we still do an MB as a troop, but it does not take over the troop meeting. With the availability of MB Universities, Summer Camp and the occaisional troop MB, scouts can earn 6-8 MBs/year without ever directly having to contact an MB counselor. Most never do. As far as I can tell from discussing this issue with other local troops this is the way most other MBs are earned as well. SA
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>So, even if BSA allowed girls, gays and atheists, you and the ACLU would still oppose federal support because it is a private organization? I can't speak for the others, but my answer would be, yes. I suppose those that disagree are those typical tax and spend liberals that want to take all the money I earn and have the government redistribute it. SA
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Welcome sirjimmyg, If your looking for specific suggestions for outings, if your troop has not done much backpacking, or would like an introductory trip for younger scouts, check out Mt. Alander in Mt. Washington State Forest in your own backyard. There are campsites about a mile and a half hike away from the parking area with minimal elevation change. It's a very pretty hike, with several stream crossings to make things interesting. At the campsites there are several large rock outcroppings and you can continue on to the summit of Mt. Alander after you set up camp. The view of the Conn. River Valley is spectacular. Good luck, sounds like your well on your way. SA
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I agree with Acco, Semper and others. Boy led does not mean adults abdicate their own leadership and guidance. Yes left to their own devices Boys may be somewhat lazy. However this sounds like it's a case of adult leadership that is just a lazy. Delivering the program, doing more than a few car camping trips to the same old places every year takes some effort on the part of both the boys and the adults. While I'm a big supporter of the boy led concept, I also think that once in a while, it's OK for the adults to say, "Hey, what do you think about doing a ______________ (insert activity) trip. We've looked into this outfitter, campsite, trip and here's a proposed itinerary. We could do......" If you get at least two scouts to say they might be interested, plan the trip with their help. Go. Take pictures. Go with as many that want to come. Come back with tales of adventure, fun, etc. Then suggest another trip and let the boys do more of the planning. Pretty soon those that just want to hang out in a parking lot called a campsite will feel like their missing something and want to join in. I think it's OK for an adult to help stretch their horizons. Heck, what if they said, "We decided all we're going to do at meetings is play video games and camp only where we can get a high speed computer connections so we can use the internet." I have to wonder which group is being lazier, the boys who have not been shown an alternative to what their doing, or the adults, who should know better. SA
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And the best part is, they aren't scout leaders
scoutingagain replied to OldGreyEagle's topic in Issues & Politics
Ehcalum, Any adult that volunteers their time to support the youth members in scouting has my respect. However, jkny is merely repeating something that has been mentioned by instructors in all three of the YPT classes I have attended. This is not meant to cast dispersions on you, but in most cases of adult to youth abuse, it has not been leaders who are also parents. So, it should not be unexpected that someone like yourself would be scrutinzed a little more. I suspect when you do have children of your own, and a single adult chooses to spend time with them, you will make a point of getting to know that person well. The individual in our unit who is the most strict when it comes to following YP requirements, and enforcing them, is our Scoutmaster, who also happens to be a single male with no children, and has my admiration for the time he devotes to scouting. SA -
With Gas Prices Rising, What Next?
scoutingagain replied to matuawarrior's topic in Open Discussion - Program
If I was a skeptic I might ask, "Gee I wonder what Dick Cheney and all those oil industry execs talked about a few years ago in the "secret" energy policy meetings? How to keep the price of oil low?" Glad to see the free market is working. If gas prices stay at current levels, (and everything I've read recently gives me no reason to believe they won't for a while) folks will begin to trade in those SUVs, or at least trade in the hugh V8s that get 14-17 mpg to V6's that in some cases get upto 25 mpgs, maybe even a hi-brid. Can't wait to get rid of my Durango, but I'm still making payments on the darn thing. It would help if we would encourage China to stop making economic reforms that encourage capitalism and return to a true state run economy so their economic growth slows down. It would help if we could get an ineffective communist government to set up shop in India as well. I don't know why we keep wanting to spread democracy. It just encourages these other countries to grow their own economy and compete for resources. If it wasn't for capitalism, these countries would still be growing rice and riding bicycles and we'd be making are own TV's, answering are own computer problems, and paying $0.99 a gallon. Seriously though, I agree with those posters that encourage the idea of more backpacking outings. For a number of reasons. First of all, it forces everyone, even the adults, to pack less. You can then fit more persons/vehicle, cutting transportation expenses. Don't take the big propane bottles, lanterns, stoves, tables, canopies, chairs, chuck boxes, troop trailers, etc. and you'd be suprised how much better milage you get. SA -
President Bush Went AWOL from Boy Scouts, Democrats Charge
scoutingagain replied to fgoodwin's topic in Issues & Politics
Well, Living in Massachusetts I can tell you Democrats do send out congratulatory letters. At our last Eagle COH the scout recieved letters from Senator Kennedy and Senator Kerry as well as several Democratic state and local politicians. A letter also came from our Republican Governor, Mitt Romney, however one was not recieve from from Rep. Barney Frank (D). SA -
In a perfect boy run world, the PLC should make up the calender and actvities for the upcomming year. However, at least in the troop I serve, this is where a little reality sets in. The committee, with input from the SM and ASMs, will set aside dates where we can be reasonably assure adult support in the way of adult participation and transportation and do not conflict with major school or community events and provide the dates, sometimes with suggestions on outings, to the PLC. It is not productive for the PLC to come up with dates that the adults can't support, only to be told, go back to the drawing board. There have been an occaisonal council or district activity that we have not been able to attend because the council or district did not consult our adults on our availability and we were not able to come up with enough adults to support the trip or the event conflicted with a major school or community event. (Written tongue in cheek, but true.) Many of the adults most active in the troop that support outings, work weekends or travel. They need to coordinate the timing of weekend outings with each other and their employers so we can be assured of enough support. Those units fortunate to have adult leadership that is independantly wealthy or work 9-5, Monday thru Friday may not have this problem. It may not be the perfect boy run way, but it assures the scouts have an opportunity to do an outing at least once a month. They get to choose where and what to do, the adults have other commitments(like supporting their families) so they get to choose when. So to answer your question, no it is no unheard of for the adults to set the timing of the schedule and there are practical reasons for it. SA
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Two Boy Scouts rescued from Nevada's Ruby Mountains
scoutingagain replied to fgoodwin's topic in Camping & High Adventure
From the pictures and description provided in the link on the two women hikers, this looks like a potentially really good high adventure trip. Not sure how the 17 year old blew out his footwear, however I do question the wisdom of bringing an 11 year old on such an outing. Glad to know no one was seriously hurt. SA -
Let's face it. While the national organization of the BSA can say it does not discriminate based on race,(It doesn't, there are units with nearly every racial make up one can think of.) it does allow individual Chartering Organizations to establish their own membership criteria. It some cases this situation results in highly segregated units. This may not be discrimination but is effective segregation that would not likely be allowed in a public organization. (Remember Bussing?) While LDS units may not be officially allowed to descriminate based on race, they can require members to be members of the LDS. How many Black Americans are members of the LDS and would be eligible for membership in an LDS unit? And it's not just LDS CO's either. There are Orthodox Jewish units as well, just how many Black Orthodox Jews are there that would be eligable for membership in those units? So while there is not blatant racial decrimination, there certainly is passive segregation going on. SA
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I will second everythings that's been said about Blue Ridge. We did High Knoll this summer and the scouts loved it. As I said before, for units in the east, these programs are excellent, affordable and accessible. I have to put in a plug for our own council camp though, Camp Squanto. See http://www.campsquanto.net/ A good all around camp and close enough for side trips to Cape Cod, Plymouth Plantation and Boston. SA
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Great idea and I like the movies suggested so far. However being a contrarian, two movies I can think of that would provide a good discussion on how leadership may have gone awry might be, Lord of the Flies and Bridge Over the River Kwai. If nothing else Bridge Over the River Kwai will give them a great tune to whistle while they hike. SA
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"Paper" Eagles - failures or not?
scoutingagain replied to CNYScouter's topic in Open Discussion - Program
If there is a "failure" with Paper Eagles, it is with the adults that enable such a program and not the scouts. Also, just my thought, there is no specific time or set of circumstances that I expect an Eagle to contribute back to scouting. Many have important priorities just after High School or during their junior or senior year of High School that limit thier ability contribute at that point in their lives. However, at somepoint in their lives, they will likely come upon a set of circumstances where their particular set of leadership skills and qualities are needed to support the community. For some this may come in High School, others College or the military, for most it may not come until they reach adulthood and have families of their own. It may be a charity event, an community organization or scouts. It may be the local pack or troop needs new adult leadership, or it maybe the local youth sprots team needs a new coach. When the time comes, I would hope the Eagle stands up and says, "I'll do it." SA -
At the same time, there is nothing wrong with planning an occaisional activity that would be open to the whole troop and let them in on the fun as well. I understand this might be more work and you don't say how big the troop is, but from my experience, planning for 20 - 30 isn't much more work than planning for 8. You don't need to do it frequently, maybe only once a year. But once the other patrols see and experience what you're doing they may start making their own plans. SA
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Scouter roles for 18-21 year olds
scoutingagain replied to stlscouter's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Interesting thread. I have to agree with NJ's observation. We have a number of ASMs, (they are 18) but still in High School. (well most graduated in June.) But, that seems to be the age group that is most challenging. They may be 18, but lack life experience that promotes adult behavior. Occaisonally we'll have a 19 or 20 year old come back for a visit from college or the military and they are much more mature. It's the 18 year olds still in High School, that are classified as adults by the BSA, but still relate to scouts they see in school everyday as peers. I don't have answer's but this group seems to fall into a BSA no man'a land. They're not really adults, but are not allowed to be scouts either. No answers, just an observation. SA -
high adventure camps/bases
scoutingagain replied to hacimsaalk12's topic in Camping & High Adventure
Check out the Blue Ridge Mountains Scout Reservation. http://www.bsa-brmc.org/camp/index.htm We just got back from High Knoll and are considering the Voyager trek in the future. For units in the east, these programs are good, accessible and affordable. SA -
Acco, Great post. Those who support the idea of push-ups should consider it. I thought this concept had left scouting and am suprised at the number of leaders that would still support it. SA
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OA ceremonies and church sponsored units
scoutingagain replied to stlscouter's topic in Issues & Politics
Have to agree with Semper here. So far; Some are offended by having to participate in ceremonies they believe are contrary to their faith. Some are offended by the implication that the ceremonies involve anything that could be offensive. Some are offended that the ceremonies make fun of their culture and history. Some are offended because they cannot be elected to membership to the OA. I know of some who have been offended because they have not been elected. I appologize if I have offended anyone with this post. SA -
If not AP Hill, then where?
scoutingagain replied to SemperParatus's topic in Open Discussion - Program
I'm pretty sure I read the Jamboree site is set up on an area of approx. 3000 acres withing the much larger base. Government sites are not out, they just can't be set aside for the exclusive use of the Boy Scouts, or use Government funding, unless some of the legislation that's been pointed out is passed and upheld. (I'm certain it will be challenged.) I also find it hard to believe the scouts have invested $20million in the site, unless that includes a value that's been added for service projects or volunteer labor. I find it hard to believe it's all cash. Here in New England there's Mass Military Reservation, that is on the potential closure list. It's 22,000 acres on Cape Cod and ajacent to an Air National Guard Base also scheduled for closure. If it is found the government can't support this event, I think it could be held, but might need to be a little shorter and a smaller version. I'm sure there are other sources of funding that could be lined up. You might have to put up with a corporate logo or two though. Something like the Coleman National Scout Jamboree, with EMS, REI, and LL Bean subcamps, a Walmart activity area, and the Pepsico Dining area and Sony entertainment stage. Oh and the Diamond Match Campfire. SA -
I've been enjoying monitoring this thread but had to step in here just to clarify a couple of points. The following is from Factcheck.org and is a site that is non-partisan and tries to publish correct information related to statements various politicians from either party may have made. There are at least as many posting correcting staements from Democrats and there are those made by Republicans. The following is from an article discussing the Iraq-Alqueda connection. "The staff of the The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission) issued a statement June 16 saying it found "no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States." It also said "contacts" between al Qaeda and Iraq "do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship." Believe what you wish to believe, but while there may have been some contact between Al-queda and the Iraqi Government, as did several other Arab governments, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. And while there are dozens of partisan websites that publish plenty of material indicating otherwise, the fact is, it's just not true. It just bothers me that so many reasonable people still believe that this connection ever existed when there is so much credible information out there that disputes this. What else, other than a conclusion made by an independant commision, charged with investigating the attacks on 9/11, and whose results are acknowledged by the current administration make folks who still believe Iraq had something to do with 9/11 change their minds? When this country goes to war, and willing to sacrifice those who are willing to volunteer to serve in the armed forces, it had better be based on something more credible than political spin. Sorry for the rant. SA
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Its not our program it’s the kids today
scoutingagain replied to CNYScouter's topic in Open Discussion - Program
I think the bigger question in this thread is why is it so difficult to find a unit that "follows the program"? and why is that considered bucking the trend? SA -
Do we take ourselves too seriously?
scoutingagain replied to Its Me's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Seriously folks, I mean seriously, after a week of summer camp.. Take my Troop....Please... Someone take my troop!" Or the Troop that I serve, seriously. SA -
I agree with OGE. As a Nation of immigrants, I don't think many are talking about closing the borders. However, from a security standpoint I think the government, in it's role of protecting it's citizens, has ever right to know who is comming and going and what their plans are in this country. As long as we continue to allow and enable people to illegally enter and live in our country we condemn them to a second class status that makes them easily exploited. Finding ways to allow legal immigration can only protect those that already live here as well as those that want to come here. SA