scoutingagain

"A laser tag gun is NOT a firearm, though it may look like one. If their intent was to prevent Scouts from pointing gun-like objects at each other, then they would/should have stated that. Actually laser tag is more akin to pointing flashlights at each other," Exactly. Nor is a laser tag piece a weapon. If they we're to ban all games that simulated armed conflict or war, it would include, capture the flag, football, chess, water balloon fights, water pistol fights, snowball fights etc. In the laser tag games I've played, nobody dies or even pretends to die, as in paintball. Each team accumulates points for successful strikes on another player or a team's "base". At the very least the change is a step towards keeping the G2SS, to just that, a document intended to provide guidance on "safe" scouting, not "politically correct" scouting. SA

PORTAGE, Wis. - Upset that his 7-year-old son wouldn't wear a Green Bay Packers jersey during the team's playoff victory Saturday, a man restrained the boy for an hour with tape and taped the jersey onto him. For the rest of the story http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080117/ap_on_fe_st/odd_disorderly_fan;_ylt=AvqgdXAbI4JW8Q7X8ZNqWH.s0NUE

"All those steps yeh mentioned lined right up ending with the Kelo decision, eh?" Well I admit I still don't get that one. SA

I like the idea of inviting them for the day on Saturday. Asking for parental permission is inviting a repeat of the mistake you made three years ago. Some parents may not fully grasp what their son is asking them to do and if one is allowed to go they get the, "But John's going. I don't want to be the wimp." thing. With only a week to prepare them, I'd invite them for the day. I sincerely doubt they will be put off by the invitation and by the end of the day will probably be very happy to head home. SA

We don't have a formal Adult Patrol, but the adults plan meals together, camp together, so essentially we are a defacto patrol, but we don't call it that. I did attend one large camporee where units were asked to volunteer to put on a skit, lead a song or otherwise participate in the evening's campfire. In all cases the activities were lead by an SPL or PL supported by other youth members. One unit sent up their "Adult Patrol", shoulder patches and all and proceeded to perform a skit. We, the other adults and I in our unit, looked at each other and kind of grimaced a bit. When they were done we gave them a polite round of applause, but frankly they looked silly. SA

Our CO provides us with a place to meet and store our stuff. The troop donates a couple of hundred bucks a year to the CO. The troop and/or scouts pay for all activities/equipment etc. SA

Beav, I understand the civil liberties concern and am somewhat sympathetic to that agruement. You probably understand the legislative process better than I do. In out system it is not easy, to get legislation restricting the activities of any group, youth, male, female, old, ATV drivers, cell phone users, cigarette smokers, truck drivers, liquor store owners, bar/resturant owners, etc. passed. It's downright difficult. 1. A majority of legislators in two separate houses of governtment must be convinced of the merits of the legislation, through debate that surely includes all the pros and cons, costs/benifits your discussing. 2. Then a chief executive must also be convinved of the merits of the legislation or he/she can veto it. 3. If, even after 1 & 2 have been achieved, parties that feel the legislation is not in keeping with the constitution and unjustly deprives them of liberties they can challenge the legislation in court. If the judiciary agrees with the arguements of the agreeved group they can nullify the legislation. So after all that, if society through the system set in place, feels it's better to have 16 year olds take a little more time to get a license and spend some time getting experience driving before they drive with others or late at night, so be it. I'm comfortable with that process. SA

"Passing legislation to restrict young adults 18-21 from drinking is not the same as restricting liberties of other groups. It's "protecting young adults." "Passin' legislation to restrict liberties of gun owners ain't the same as restricting liberties of "other groups", as long as we're not in the group that is bein' legislated against. " Beav, just curious... Why didn't you include Passin' legislation to prohibit two members of the same gender from gettin' hitched. SA

"a stupid mistake is something that will cause a person who might have voted for him to decide not to do so. " Well I'd say going into Michigan and telling folks there jobs in the auto industry aren't comming back qualifies. Even if it is probably true. SA

Welcome Source. I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice here. How to Get Rid A Scoutmaster is always a hot topic. If you search on that in theses forums you'll probably find several threads dedicated to getting rid of SMs, Committee Chairs, Den Leaders Etc. Bottom line is the Scoutmaster serves at the pleasure of the Charter Organization. If the Charter Organization Representative wants him, he stays, if the Charter Organization Rep doesn't want him, he goes. Assuming the the Charter Organizational Rep is fulfilling the desires of the Charter Organization Institutional Head. There's no voting, parental rights, commitee rights etc. Contrary to popular belief a Scout Troop is not a democracy at the adult level. As I've said before, it's more like the phone company. Think about how you would go about getting rid of your boss, especially if his/her boss(i.e. the COR) likes your boss. Not likely to happen. But, based on what you've told us there is little to believe there is ample reason to remove the SM. There are no offical minimum requirements, age or rank wise to serve in the SPL position. If you have many frustrated boys and leaders, why? I assume they all joined the Troop voluntarily. You'll need to provide a little more info. What's your position in the Troop? SA

"What would you want if that were your son or daughter who were stuck somewhere dangerous, and couldn't reach you or was scared to because she'd be grounded? " Well I go pick up my own kid in this circumstance and usually end up providing taxi services to several of his friends because we're one of the few parents willing to go get them. But please don't ask my son to volunteer to drive your drunk son home late at night, or your daughter home because she decided to go out with someone elses drunk son. She can get a ride home with my son and be home by 11:00 if she wants. If she wants to hang out with the "cool" kids that drink into the night and then is afraid to ride home, she can call her own parents or a taxi. At some point folks are responsible for the consequences of their own decisions. AS far as restricting liberties go, society, through legislation restricts the privileges of children all the time. That's why there are so few 11 year olds involved in vehicle accidents where they're at fault. That's why the sale of alcohol and cigaretts is restricted based on age. That's why children are not working in factories in this country for 60 hours a week. (Unless you count summer camp staff ) Passing legislation to protect children is not the same as restricting liberties of other groups. SA

If you do a play, do one that has mass market appeal, don't try and be too artsy. This is a fundraiser. The HS drama club the last few years has always done a mystery or drama play as it's winter offering. Attendance was, well parents, relatives & friends. This year they did "A Christmas Carol". They did a great job and sold out the house for several nights. There were many elementary school kids and others in the audience I had never seen attend before. It was the talk of the town. They had a great time and made big $$ for their club. SA

I had to check the dates on this thread to make sure I hadn't inadvertently resurrected another thread from ancient history. Anyway, Welcome back BW. Your insights have been appreciated in the past. Regarding the thread, I can only agree with, "This is what happens when someone makes up an arbitrary rule and then has to bend other things to fit the arbitrary rule." Without other insight to the situation, this would be my guess. I know at this point if someone told me I couldn't participate because I didn't have some specific training course they thought I should have, that I didn't think I needed and would cost me time, $$ and another weekend away from the family, I'd probably find another organization to lend my volunteer time to. I suspect the pro ran into a minor mutiny among more experienced scouters and had to compromise. SA

Lisabob, I'll admit I'm not one of the better document hounds here but the MBC Guide from the official website is http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=ba I skimmed through the page and could find nothing regarding required membership in a unit. My understanding is the same as yours. I don't believe there is a requirement to be registered with a unit. SA

"For those that responded with comments like "too many mommies and daddies on a campout undercut the program", I agree, but when the son comes to me and asks if it would be OK for his dad to join us on a camping trip, is how this got started in the first place. " OGO, in that context I can understand your frustration abit more. We've had our share scouts that have had parents that basically drop them off and pick them up. Sometimes not even that. For those of us involved with our kids, it's hard to even fathom how some of the other parents think. SA

"I'm very, very wary of any "safety" law that specifically targets one segment of the population just because they don't have the demographic/voting strength to oppose it." Well we are talking about minors here and the privileges of driving. Not quite the same as say, US citizens that want to talk to family members overseas on the phone without the government secretly listening. The libertarian in me agrees with you, the parent in me was glad to have a law like this in place, although in MA the curfew was midnight and applied to drivers under the age of 17 for the most part. SA

We have had a similar law in place in MA. for several years now and it had signgicantly cut down on the number of teenage driving fatalities. While it doesn't remove the adult drunk driver from the road, at least the teens are not out on the roads with them. "Accident rate for folks over 70 is pretty darn high, eh? When are we gonna start seein' restrictions on night driving? " There are state, FL for example, that do impose some form of competency testing, visual or otherwise for drivers over a certain age. More state are likely to follow. While the program in question may have merit, I'm not sure I like the idea of "Six of every 10 calls come because a teenager had too much to drink, Brooks said. " I was very happy to either have my sons home by curfew or a call from a friends house or to go get them. The last thing I would want is to have my teenage driver out 'til 2:00am or so, providing taxi services to other drunken teenagers, while other drunk adult drivers are on the road, no matter how nobel the intent. SA

Sayre is probably the closest and most convienient scout property to the Boston area. It is not far from public transportation, is open all year and has good facilities, including adirondack type shelters if you want. They just built a new indoor olympic sized pool, but last I heard the pool was having problems and had to close for a while. Another alternative for camping close to Boston, with good access to public transportation, is Wompatuck State Park, in Hingham, MA. http://www.mass.gov/dcr/parks/southeast/womp.htm Camping is available all year and there is a separate area set aside for scout units. From here you can access commuter rail or ferry boat service to downtown Boston. If your really ambitious and want to try something different there is camping on the Boston Harbor Islands with ferry service to/from Boston. I think they are open for camping only on a seasonal basis though. See http://www.mass.gov/dcr/parks/metroboston/harbor.htm Good luck, And for now it's GO PATS! At least until spring training. Just realized this initial question was posted last spring! Sorry for the delayed reply. SA

With all due respect gang, I tend to agree with OhioScouter. Unless a unit is really having trouble fielding sufficient adult support for outings I think taking an answer like, " I really don't like camping or I have better things to do." should be taken at face value. Maybe the guy is taking care of his sick mother, grandmother, volunteering at Habitat for Humanity, is in the National Guard and headed overseas, or maybe he's just a selfish SOB. Doesn't matter to me. Our job is to provide his son the best scouting progam we can and the unit I serve has more adults than it needs on most outings. If that program is threatened by lack of adult participation though, a little arm twisting maybe needed, but otherwise, (to digress to the other thread a bit) if he gets his son to meetings/outings on time and doesn't complain. Fine by me. Frankly, In the unit I serve we have too many parents come along. I don't mean adult leaders with sons in the unit, I mean parents/guardians who only come when their son goes along and their son only camps when their parent/guardian is available. For some of them I'd like to see the parents stay home once in a while. SA

One of the things I did as advancement chair was to have the SPL hand out awards at the COH's. Traditionally the SM and CC had always done this. No one said anything but the first CC I served under seemed a bit taken back because she didn't have a forum to talk from. Now, the SPL not only hands out the awards but is as much involved in the program as the SM is, actually more so. The only time this changes is when we have a candidate involved with the Communications MB. They boys are much more ready to taken on structured ceremonies like a COH than other aspects of the operation of the troop. That's the easy stuff. The hard stuff is asking them, OK what do you to do for a high adventure trip next summer and you get the, "I dunno, or Let's go to Australia" ideas. SA

One of our favorite winter campsites is the AMC camp at Mt. Cardigan, NH. See http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/lodges/cardigan/index.cfm There are outdoor campsites available year round. Most years there is plenty of snow although last year was a poor snow year. At this point they probably have 5-6 ft of snow on the ground. There are trails to snowshoe, XC Ski and an old downhill ski area the scouts can sled, tube and snowboard or ski on. They just have to walk up & down the hill! They tend to really wipe themselves out during the day and are in bed early. Much better than when we stay at a commercial ski lodge and they stay up all night on colas, hot chocolate, candy etc. The campsites are about 400yds up a hill which tend to limit the junk scouts sometime bring on an outing. Bears are usually asleep in the winter and less of a worry. There is an AMC lodge there with hot meals, cots, fireplace etc. for wimps. Any time we have gone, the only folks camping outside have been scouts. The folks in the lodge thought we were nuts. The presents of the lodge is a nice backup though in case things get rediculous cold. We had one winter campout where it dropped to -20 and it turned into a survival exercise. This location provides the scouts with a place to experience real winter camping with a safe area to warm up if something goes wrong. SA I forgot to mention scout units basically pay the AMC member prices. At least that's how I remember it.(This message has been edited by scoutingagain)

I don't have much to add. I think Beav and Mark have said it. I'll add my congradultions to Bear's son. I agree it would have been nice to recognize the lad at the COH. In our unit we have done as Beav suggests. As the candidates begin to reach the end of the trail we provide occaisional updates on their progress at meetings and COH's. i.e. John completed his project last week and is preparing his application and paperwork. We expect to have an Eagle COH next spring! and/or John had his EBOR Tuesday and his paperwork is on it's way to National! Let's have a yell!. I'll admit that there are times I get frustrated with the SM as well. I think he could provide more leadership coaching to the youth, be a bit more organized, etc. I have observed other units with SM's that I think are better. However, he's a single guy who volunteers his time and if he didn't I'm not sure we would have a Troop. I am not, and have never been in a position to honestly say I can put in more time and effort into the postion and could do a better job. He's a bit younger than I and I sometimes try to provide some polite wisdom here or there in the form of a suggestion or question, but always defer to him as SM. I volunteer to help as much as my personal and professional life allow. SA

" I am going to encourage them to wait and do it at a campfire, or the next coh. Is that within my "rights" as a merit badge counselor? " Yes. The scouts must complete the requirement to your satisfaction. However, I would work with the SM to try and ge a campfire scheduled in a timely fashion to help the second set of scouts meet the requirement. SA

Class of 1971. Currently Advancement Chair and Eagle Advisor for the unit I serve. SA

OK uh, got it. SA