Scoutfish

Same as above: If we can't get enough drivers, we don't go. WE are not about to pick who can go.

kay, so as far as I have seen, I was the only one to specifically mention having( being) an ASM attending- wellbeing on the Board - of a BOR. And I spoecifically said it was a MOCK EBoR. And let me be very clear about this as some totally read one thing, but came away with another thing: This is completely voluntary - done only by request of the scout - mock EBoR. Kinda like a practice test. We offer it to scouts who want it. We do not suggest they do it, we do not require that they do it, and out of the last 6 Eagle candidates, only one asked for us to do it. Thing is, our scouts may not act like , look like or do anything like your scouts do. Our District EBoR may or may not have the same "ambiance" that yours does. I have no ideas as I have not sat on an actual EBoR. So...... our scout asked us to do the MOCK EboR. He was appreciative afterwards. The AC asked to see his sock because the EBoR may do this. Why? Because maybe they expect the scout to wear his ENTIRE uniform - and wear it correctly - at the EBoR. And does this shock anybody? I don't know why since many, many members of this site expect a scout to bring his handbook as they consider it a part of the uniform. The AC of our troop aslo asked a few other questions too. JUst to get the scout in the mindset of how things "might" go. The scout also brought his Eagle project workbook, permits, e-mails, and pictures. The AC made a few suggestions that the scout might want to make it look cleaner and neater. Again, all suggestions and not orders or commands. Just stuff to help the scout prepare even better for his EBoR . So, again, the only reference I read about an ASM being on a BoR was my reference to me ( ASM) being on a MOCK EBoR.

"Wahl's work wasn't "effective" lobbying." So wait a minute, is it being suggested by Beavah that the boy didn't earn his Citizenship MB way back when because because he didn't get the outcome he wanted on a later venture? Just because things do not work ( as of yet) to the way you want them to,.....doesn't mean you didn't do it right. There are hard minded people who you will not convince that Elvis does not fly around in a UFO with Bigfoot as his co pilot. Wouldn't matter what you did, how you did it or if you had the full testimony of every scientist, Medical Dr and examiner on yourt side - some people will not change your mind.

Well, we have briars that can grow to 6 foot tall around here too. We also have vines thatcan grow to about a half inch thick with 1 inch thorns on them. We even have those trees that average about an inch and a quarter thick and have more thorns on them than a cat has hair! But most of those are in thicker, denser places than most of us travel. If I am going hiking on the AT ( one day soon ) I do not expect to just plow my owm path, I'm pretty sure that most of the trails will be decently clear enough that the frame won't be an issue. Kinda goes with following LNT. Sure, I know deadfalls and/or high water over trails, rock slides, ect can cause you to have to deviate from a followed trail, but that's teh exception, not the norm. Also, My body will be wider than the backpack, so if there is the kind of foilage that will grab my pack and stop me dead in my tracks...chances are better than great that - that very same foilage has already grabbed, poked or assaulted my wider than backpack body first. At that point, I have already stopped or backed up ..or could be cussing enough to blush a sailor!

In our troop, the QM is not a maidf. It is not his job to make sure that scouts using equipment put it away. It is not his job to make sure tents are cleaned and vacummed out. It is not his job to make sure pots are scrubbed spotless. It is not his job to be the scouts maids or moms. His job is to make sure equipment is in good shape and working correctly and safely. He makes sure there are plenty of gas canistered and that the tents do not have big holes in them. If the gas supply is low, he sees to it that we get new canisters. If something is broken, he sees to it that it is fixed or replaced. I will tell you one thing though...if you suddenly hold the QM responsible whenever a scout shrugs his duties, you will suddenly find yourself in a troop full of scouts who will leave everything to the QM. And you will find yourself in a troop that is always in need of filling the QM spot as nobody will take it. Might as well call that person a scapegoat instead of a quartermaster. As far as locking up the patrol kits/boxes..I'd say do it. Each patrol should get a combination lock - to prevent a key not showing up at a campout - and only the patrol members know the combination. Having a locked patrol box is not against any part of a scout law. The part about trustworthy is on the scouts who would be potential tresspassers. But reality is this: If 99% of the troop proves to be trustworthyu, it is the 1% who will leave you in a bind at the next campout. Kinda like a bank. We could say the laws tell us that it is illegal to rob a bank. Doesn't mean everybody follows the laws all the time. OP's post ia a great example of that. The scouts who's stoves were used were trusting in that their gear would not be messed with or tampered with. Well, we see how far that got them didn't we? Give each patrol a combination lock and then you know who is responcible for lost gear or gear left out: that patrol! Plus it also lends to each patrol to let the QM know about any issues or problems with gear the QM may not find out about anyways: IE; one burner stops working after it heats up and has been in use after 5 minutes. The QM wouldn't normally discover this during the course of his regular inspections.

Used to kep my sleeping bag in a sealed trash bag in my shed. Opened it up for my pre campout air out and discovered a few friends.......waterbugs, Palmettoa bugs, roaches...whatever you want to call them. Now I keep the bags loosly rolled up in my closet , but not in a bag. Haven't had to let them pre air out or any more "friends" since!

On my son's first campout, he voluntyeerd to be the patrol shopper. So I took him shopping and stood back while he shoped. OKay, I gave some suggestions before arriving at the store - buy generaic since the supplies are only for one weekend and saves money) Anyways, come Saturady morning, one of the new scouts comes up and tells me that i bought the wrong kind of pancake mix. I told him that I didn't buy it. I didn't do the shopping. Then I asked him why it was the wrong kind of mix. The scout tells me: "Because this kind sticks and burns. We are supposed to have that kind( pointing to another patrols nice gholden brown pancakes), not this kind." So I look at what my son bought, which was Aunt Jemima mix in a box. You just add water. The other patrol had the plastic jug that you add water and shake. So I'm wondering why that kind would be so much better than the kind my son bought ( other than just easier) when I notice that the frying pan is bone dry and the knob is turned to "afterburner". So, no grease of any kind in the pan, and the temperature almost at volcano. I'll tell my son that , next time, he should definantly get the shake in a jug pancakes next time! LOL!

I guess I should have been more clear: I only meant while hiking in or out. Not for starage at home, and not to keep in while not using at camp. Thing is, teh bag that came with the sleeping bag is fallling apart. Seams pulling apart, bottom mesh ( kinda like what's under a matress) of the bag stretching and tearing. At home, I keep it rolled up in my closet in a roll that is about twice the diameter as when the bag was bought. Not gonna use a duffle bag for hiking. This isn't just for parking my truck and walking 10 feet to teh campsite. I am checking into and really researching some backpacks as this si something I will be doing til at least when my son Ages out as a scout. By that time, I might keep doing this even if he doesn't. I might end up at Philmont. I might end up at Betchel one day. Could be I be an adult advisor to a venturing crew. I have been asked to hike on the AT 3 times now - only turning it down as I know I am not yet in a good enough condition to do it........ YET - I am working on that tough. So, I'm gonna buy a backpack that will distribute the weight nicely across my hips. I could see using a duffle for a short walk to a campsite, but that's about it. So anyways, I was looking to find another "bag" for my bag. Sw the compression sacks and it seemed like agood idea to make my profile smaller while hiking, Thanks for the replies and suggestions though, I do keep them all tucked away somewhere in my mind in case a different sitaution with somewhat different circumstances pop up.

Yeap! Those Mayans are gona come back and get us all anyways come Decemebr! hey, didn't they crank up the Hadron Collider already and give it a test run? It is scary when even those who created it say that they really are not sure what will happen!

So, have you ever used them? Will they work on a sleeping bag? My sleping bag is a Coleman and is made great. Really nice and comfortable and plent of room for my 6'2" 256 pound frame. But the bag it came in is pretty cheap. Starting to tear on one side and it came with that extra zipper that has the two runs about 5 inches apart. You know, the ones - that in theory - you can hook together and compress it down. So I am looking at some compression bags at Campmor thatuse 3 or more buckled straps. Star larger and use force to compress whatever you put in there...which I assume is usually clothes? So, for a sleeping bag. Will it work? What say you?

NACAP. I never said the mock EBoR was required or mandatory. It is offered to any scout who would like to have one. Call it a practice ebor if you want. The Advancement chair ran it. And the scout was grateful for having had it for many reasons, a few examples of which I will offer here: 1) As soon as the Scout came in, the AC asked him what time it was. The scout said 7:03. The meeting was scheduled to start at 7:0 The AC told the scout that he should plan to show up about 15 minutes early. At the very least, he let the scout know that a handful of people from the district were taking time out of there lives for the upcoming EBOR and that the scout might just insult them by being late. 2) After the scout sat down, the AC asked him to stand up and pull one of his pants legs up a little bit. The scout did not know why ( neither did I) but did it. The AC then tells him he did a great job as he had his scout socks on. Apparently alot of scouts do not think of this. 3)Alot of questions get asked. Some of them are totally random, off the wall questions. The Ac asked a scout a question about our involvement in Irag and what he thought about that. Nope. there wasn't a wrong answer, but the scout did get thrown off track and locked up for a little bit. So, while you may have assumed it was a requirement that out evil troop tortured the scout with, it is something that is offered to every scout - if they so choose - to help them through what is probably one of the most intense and nerve wracking events they will face.

Yeah, I think it is safe to say that when we use examples, they are either specific in which case we do know a scout quite well, or they are a general statement that is indeed subject to all kinds of exceptions. At our last troop campout, the SM did something I never heard of before: THorns& Roses & rosebuds. In case you never herd of it( I didn't) , it goes like this: THORN: Each person in the group or circle, tells one thing that is a pain in his side about the trip/campout/event. No judging by us, no names, not catcallingetc...Each person airs out their thorn. Could be the weather, what was for dinner, the activity, etc.... ROSE: Each person tells one thing they really liked about that day/ trip/campout/ etc... After that ROSEBUD: Something you are looking foreward to. A couple scouts admitted that they were looking forward to going home so thay could be babied and pampered by their mothers. So, alot of scouts are indeed able to do forthemselves, but why bother when mom will do it when she's around? WE have another scout who is in the NSP who is like night and day depending on wether his dad is around or not. If dad ( committee member) isn't on the trip he will eat just about anything his patrol makes. But let ole daddio come along, and this scout can't eat anything but chicken nuggets or hot dogs prepared an exact specific way. Has to be just the right brand too or else the scout will just not eat. Personally, I say let him not eat. He gets hungy enough, he will eat sometyhing! So, even though there are exceptions, I have seen in my experience that usually, the parents - particularly moms - enable the scouts to a level of dependancy that they would not show or have otherwise when mom & dad are not there. Luckily for me, my son learned that I do not play the enabler game at all. But while his mom does, she has in fact come a long ways. She isn't as bad as she used to be. Still working on her though!

I say screw it! You rewarded those who went above and beyond doing the minimum. Since when did we decide that doing more than average was a bad thing? I've gotten quite a few raises more than my fellow workers and I am the Ss field supervisor for my company. Maybe I should give that pay, title and the responcibility back since it could be seen as gloating to the others or unfair they are not equal rto me. Maybe the troop should have all SM's instead of those lowly ASM's. Maybe the entire committee should be the CC so that it doesn't appear that one member is treated bettter or more important or worthy. Go ahead and hand everybody an Eagle badge as mentioned before and hand all leaders their WB necker, beads and woggle. Everybody wear silver shoulder loops ( including scouts) so as to not make a DE, SE, UC or anybody else seem more importants. Go ahead and hand every adult ( and scout) all the knots available too. You know what, just to save time, quit recruiting scouts at all, Just get the school roster and buy ALL the rank and award patche, pins, knots and medals for all students too...even the girls as we don't want to seem sexist. Yes sire, anything that causes or leads to self motivation and betterment of one's self is definantly cruel indeed.

"Anyway, this was a good experience for me. I'm invited/planning to attend the Troop Committee meeting which will be in another ten days to get a feel for for the Troop Committee is working." AWESOME! Glad you enjoyed the experience. You ever take a class that you really didn't need to, just for the sake of learning something new? I have! You ever ask a question about a process, why something got started, or what a piece of equipment was - just for no other reason than being curious? I have. Knowledge is awesome. There is no such thing as being too learned or too smart. I was part of a mock EBoR a week ago. I don't know who learned more - the Eagle candidate or me. Still have 3 pages of questions that the AV wrote up that cover every aspect of what could be asked of the scout concerning his entire scouting lifetime. I have been asked if I would like to observe a EBoR ( scout from another unit in our district) in about 2 months. I have asked the SM if I could sit in on a few SM conferences as an observer. I want to sit in on thse so that I can get a better understanding of what goes on and where the scout should be when it is time for him to be at a BoR or EBoR. If it helps me do my job better, then it will also helpo the scout be better at some point , in some way. I said yes, I absolutely would like to se it. As a bonus, you do have a better working knowledge of a uniot that you are there to support. THis is a great thing as you may notice things when they are starting to go foul instead of waiting for a unit to realize it ( often after alot of damage has been done) . And isn't that what we do with the scouts? WE offer suggestions and advice to keep them straight on track? WE don't wait til they are crashing to start helping out. WE are proactive about it. We try to help before issues and trouble start. Looks like ( to me) that if you have a good understanding of what and how a unit is operating, you might be able to do the same thing. It is possible to be familiar with a unit and/or people without being too personally involved so that you can't be objective.

Sounds alot like on of my friends who "used" to love scouting until his dad told him he had to get Eagle by the time he was 16 or else he wouldn't be alowed to get his driver's license. Could be that this boy was tired of scouting or possibly not even interested anymore, but parents gave him a "get Eagle or else...." ultimatum. Maybe he wasn't active because he wasn't interested and did the bare minumum to get what he "had" to.

johnponz, Seattle isn't asking if he should do it. He's not asking for permission. He stated: "I've always been AS or SM when I've been a unit leader for a troop, so I haven't had occasion to sit on a BOR in my Scouter service, which began in 1981. I'll have to read the BOR section in the SM Handbook. Any other advice?" Bold emphasis mine. So, Seattle has aplan of action to brush up on and digest the process. Just asking if we might offer some tips or advice that he can't find in the BOr book. You know, based on our/your experience.

Not gonna lie, I almost bit my tongue a few times just to not say something. But I manage to not say anything ANd not bite my tongue slam off either! I did - in one particular instance - interfear, but I did so without ever directing or telling the scout what to do. I am the ASM assigned to the NSP. It went like this: Scout is using fork to poke at and diddle with 4 pieces of turky bacon that is in frying pan that is on Coleman stove. ME: How's that bacon coming along? Scout: Pretty good, I can almost smell it. ME: So it's cooking pretty okay? Not too hot or not too cool? Scout: WEll, taking a little bit longer than when I cook it at home, but the stove is just older. Me - looking at gas bottle connector/valve that is still tucked into it's slot between the burners under the pan of turkey bacon: Do you have everything hooked up right? It could cause it to not cook right if it's not hooked up correctly. Scout: Yeah, it's just like the stove at home. ME: Okay, if you say so, but sometimes, you need to check, double cjheck, and check again. Especially with this older ( 2006) stove. So the scout looks at the stove, kinda gives me this embarassed look, takes the frying pan off the stove, removes the grate and then hooks up the gas bottle and starts the fire and begins cooking. This scout was used to just turning the knob on , on the electric stove his mom has. Now, the only reason I interfeared at all wa due to the fact that they had a limited time to cook, eat, clean up, and hike out the 1/2 mile to the flag ceremony. That and I never did tell him what was wrong, just steered him to be in a position to discover on his own what was wrong. "You, Scoutfish, are a bit unusual." Yeah, That would be true!

That's whay I wondered if being a Cub leader versus being a parent made a difference? Most parents just show up and hang out with their scouts and enjoy teh camping, but in reality, most of them do not know the purpose of the program or what we are trying to one day do. Of course, they are also not the ones who did the planning, coordinating behind the scenes , working, fetching, gathering, etc.... Boy Scouts feels like a break.

I think that based on Moose's last post, maybe it wouln't be such a bad idea for unit commissioners to sit in on BoR's every now and then. Not as a member of the Bor, but as a witnes from the back of the room...for many of the reasons that Moose brought up. What if the Bor does in fact add to requirements? What if they were going to fail the scout's BoR because he did not fulfill an added requirement? What if they skimmed over or even dropped some requirements for the scouit to pass the BOR. I am not saying the UC should interrupt or bring up the issues at the BOR, but afteward or even during a UC/Unit meeting at a different time and date . Think about it: Units could be going down the wrong path or just starting their journey to impoding and failure. Why wait til the ship is half submerged to offer help when you could stop the leak while it is still just a trickle? Again, not saying Seattle should stand up in the midle of the BoR and say" HEY! You are doing this all wrong!" But this is a rare and and awesome oppertunity for a UC to see exactly how the unbit runs on a basic level.

So from Seattle's post, we can gather this bit of info: As far as we know, there could be a committe of 50 people in the troop, but due to conflicts of scheduling, or other unforseen events, only two committee members are available to do the Life BOR. It might even be that there are 4 committee members, of which two of them could be the scout's parents - so again, that leaves only two qualified committee members able to run the BoR. So, being in a bind, they ask Seattle to sit in as the 3rd member of the Bor. Scout is not only not friends with Seattle, but they are not even familiar with each other. I see no problem nor do I see any conflict. It is only pure unfounded speculation on our part to assume that Seattle will suddenly sit on or start running every BOoR for this unit. From my perspective, it's a one time deal that is being done out of necessity more than anything else. But on the bonus side, this does give Seattle an inside look of a unit that he happens to be a commissioner to. Nice way to get more familiar with a unit that you are there to help when they need it.

Okay, I realize I am not what you call an average scout parent. The fact that I was a Cub Scout leader definantly puts me in a different point of perspective than a non leader scout parent. Okay, lets do some comparissons: CUB SCOUTS You plan activities and events for everybody. You have to come up with materials and supplies. You have to get those supplies You have to plan a menu that appeals to a huge group of adults and scouts. You have to plan on all untensils, plates, cups, condiments, etc... You have to figure a good amount based on who will eat 1/2 a serving and who will eat 3 servings. Gotta go grocery shopping for all those people and figure out a mass starage container - ie: collers and ice......and who is going to carry all that to the campsite. Okay, so now you have everything there at camp. First thing is you have to set up your tent and small home away from home for you and your scout. Make sure he puts his bag in the tent, his sleeping bacg, toiletries, etc..... Now you have to plan a time to start preparing and cooking everything. Gotta get everybody up and make sure all those hands get washed . After you get done cleaning up ( or supervising the scouts cleaning up) - you have to plan at some point that somebody will have to break away from whatever activity is going on to start the next meal and have it ready to eat at the next designated mealtime. I could go on and on. BOY SCOUTS MY son and I show up at camp. I grab my gear, he grabs his. I worry about where I am going to set up my tent ( now to be my new hammock). I set it up, toss my sleeping bag in, toss my duffle bag in, and...................... I AM DONE! Unless it is my turn to cook for my fellow leaders..I am set up! I will look over to the patrol my son is in, and make sure they are not gonna have any major heartaches, and maybe offer a suggestion if it is really needed, but other than that........ I AM DONE! Have the tent all to myself! No dirt all over my tent floor. No clothes scattered everywhere inside the tent. No zipper left down so that 14 crickets start serenading me as I start to drift off to dreamland. My son is responcible for setting up his tent, picking a place to set it up, for unpacking anything he needs or wants to bring along. H His patrol planned, procurred and will see to it that they have edible meals. They are responcible for any and all utensils and or plates. They are responcible for cleanup afterward. The are responcible for planning thier activities and or education while camping. We will help teach if need be, but they still have to plan for that. They have to take down camp, flake their tents afterward and follow all policing of the campsite afterward. They pack out any and everything that needs to be packed out. So to recap: In cub scouts - even though I had the title of CubMaster, I was really a worker ant. In Boy SCouts - As an Assistant ScoutMaster - I am just a "in case of emergency situation" supervisor ant. So, why is it supposed to be a hard transition to me? Or is it just the fact that I used to be leader in cub scouts that has me smiling like a jackass in boy scouts?

Bet Eagle92 will get me straight about this, but I am sure plenty of you know: In discussions that come up sometimes in my troop, or at my district's RT's, Camp Boddie ( East Carolina Council) is mentioned. Used to be Camp Bonner. I know how to pronounce Bonner. Boddie? Not son sure, Get a bunch of us in the room, and some of us pronounce it "bow-dee" and some of us pronounce it "Bah-dee" . Actually, we have a really countrified member who calls it "Bow-der" So........SURVEY SAYS?

Webelos II's can put a "II" behind their rank!

To be clear, I am not part of the uniform police, not am I a grammar nazi ( like I have to point that one out), nor am I one of those people who get bent out of shape over a wrong usage of a word or term. But I do have to point out that it is just Webelos. Not Webelo or Webelos I and Webelos II. My pack does say Webelos and Webelos II, but we only use it for OUR OWN distinction of our 1st year Webelos and second year Webelos dens. Other than that unit based informal useage, there is no national, council or district distinction within Webelos Now, anopther point is that it is only a crossover when the Webelos cross over to a troop. Everybody else graduates a rank...they do not cross over. So, we had the same issue year after year after tear. Starting last year, I told the committee that we needed to do something. When each of our ranks graduates up to the next rank, we have them cross a bridge. Before they cross teh bridge, we remove their old rank necker. After they cross the bridge, they recieve their new rank necker. The pack also buys the next rank book only for those who participate in the graduation ceremony. You participate, you get a book. You don't participate, you don't get the necker or book unless you buy your own. SO, where does this leave the Webelos going into their second year? WE just mention that they are continuing in their second year. And when they cross over to a troop, we buy ther Boy scout handbook. And if you think about it, the pack gets off cheaper that way: Instead of buying a book AND necker, we are only buying the book. The troop that accepts them at crossover provides the new necker and shoulder loops. THis means scouts and parents can spend that same amount of money on things like mess kits, a 1 man tent since the scout no longer needs a tentominium, or other gear needed in Boy Scouts. The nice thing is that scouts usually break away with the new troop for a while right after the crossover and can start jotting down important info right away. Our troop meets right after our pack does. About half the boys got their joining requirements signed off the first 15 minutes of their first troop meeting.

Another thing to consider here is this: Have you already held a graduation ceremony yet? If so, then it's done if he has already been promoted to the next rank. Really, I wouldn't have an issue with a boy working a extra week or so on his rank. Granted, he won't have a ceremony over it, but at least he could put the patch on his shirt with the rest of the patches.