Scoutfish

Mom, In this case, I think it would be okay to shoot the messenger - when they got back. The SM or AM shouldn't have sent a broad group message to everybody that some were sick. He should have sent messages to the parents of those who were sick. Really sick, not kinda sorta sick. During our week of summer camp, not a day went by that at least one scout had a stomach ache ( too much candy from trading post) ( or eating way too much Texas Pete on a dare during lunch) or a cut , or a scarpe or a busted lip ( horseplay ) ( my son actually) , or some reason or another. I think think that whoever sent the message did more haerm than good in the way they sent it. I couldn't imagine it being any worse than sending a text saying: " A scout died in accident at camp - we'll contact you later." All that message does is create a ton of anguish and worry. Now, we have a ban on phones during camp. We do not care if the boy call/ text each other while on teh way to or home from camp. They can call their girlfriends or other scouts who are not on this trip. But once we get to camp, phones arer off and left in the trailer. Exception: Ipods and mp3's. Some scouts will listen to music during down times or that short time after going to the tent but before going to sleep. Some use them as alarm clocks. Some use them as cameras. Our AC has one of the driod/ iphone/whatever all in ones that calls, texts goes online and is also his every day camera. As for communication the SM, the AC and myself all had our phones with us 24/7 and charged up( plug in at ad min building) . It just depended where we were at camp as the signal is hit and miss. But hey, all parents also had the camp rangers buisness number and the phone number of the ad min building in case of emergency.

Well, my line of thought is this: A drop in the bucket. One their own, each drop means nothing, but after a while, the bucket is full and flows obver. Or maybe we can rationalize tossing a single cigarette butt on the ground because it is only one butt. One butt won't make a difference, right? But if everybody threw just one butt on the ground, the ground would be covered. Okay, maybe this isn't teh analogy I am looking for. Maybe it's dominoes or the " give an inch - take a mile. Anyways, where does it start and where does it end? First we decide to shock a scout into remembering or not forgetting ( depending on how you look at it) stuff. Then we decide on another thing that makes the scouts more responcible or better learned. NOw how far do we go? Soon you have scout failing EBOR's for not having a handbook or SM's sabotauging Eagle projects. And I'm not saying that one day the scout has to sing and the next the committee decides to give a 4 page written exam at a BOR. But where do you draw the line? At what point do you say it's okay to do this, but not that? And as the scouter who decides that a scout learns best by embarassment...do you even realize when you do oneday cross the line? Maybe this is the same line of thinking that causes DE's and councils to behave the way they do in Basement's council. Maybe they started out with a simple little miniscule idea that "helped" the scouts. Maybe they decide to help the district or council too? It starts somewhere. So, it's not the actual singing, mind you. It's that we decide to do something that doesn't follow with the oath and spirit of scouting. A scout is trustworthy. So are scouters. Maybe it means that we are entrusted to give people their belongings back when we find them. " Hey man, I found your scout handbook by the firepit after you left the meeting last week. Might want to keep a closer eye on it" works just as well as : "Hey man, I found your scout handbook by the firepit after you left the meeting last week and now you have to do something embarassing to get it back." So either way, you give it back and scout knows he should remember next time, but in one case, you add embarassment to the scouts day. I really don't think this fits into the scout law. What I wonder about is will you, I, us realize when we take it a step further, and a step further than that, and then further than that. Next thing you know....we will be " tsk, tsk, tsking" scouts and scouters who won't allow us to give FOS presentations at Eagle Ceremonies. I'm just saying, It all starts somewhere. We justify this, we justify that...one day we think any and everything we do is okay.

Wasn't the troop's fault. Wasn't your fault. You told him how many times to look there? Told him if he didn't pick his other stuff up it would go to the dumpster how many times? This is all his. He owns that responcibility. I ghet where you'd think the troop or QM would have tosed it out or gotten on step son to take it home or at least get it out of the trailer, but again not their job. Thing is, he's like my son: He knows the chances of it happening are either slim to none or that he knows I will say it at least 4 times before it really happens. Only solution is to give him one shot ( on something cheaper , maybe?) and follow through. So, where has he slept last 3 outings? Did he buddy up with somebody who has a better/bigger tent? My son's tent is a 4 man tent that realistically hold 1.5 people with their gear - so he likes to buddy with another scout who has a 8 man tent ( realistically a 3 man plus gear). He can stand up c ompletely in that tent too so maybe that ha something to do with it. Our tent doesn't get used much , but at least it's in the closet not a trailer.

You ever just see, read or observe something that just totally changes the way you feel about something? Maybe not instantly, but it could take a few hours, a few days, weeks or even a month or year. And it's not a life changing time to repent on you sould type of change, just a minor change in how you do something or the rational behind what you do/ did. Okay here's what did it for me: "I don't care for singing for lost stuff, either. Doesnt' seem Scoutlike to me. Courtesy dictates that I cheerfully return the things I find to their owners." - Twocubdad Twocubdad is right too. As a scout ( scouter in my case) isn';t it part of my promise to help other people at all times to hand over - without any expectation of service, song, reward, etc... any property I find that belongs to somebody else? NOw, I myself was all about the singing for lost stuff. Of course, we did it in a good natured fun way, and as to date, the scouts actually enjoy the spot light. They get to ham it up and try to top each other with the hammy singing skills. But that isn't the point is it? So what if they are all okay with it ...so far. That isn't what the scout law or oath says. It doesn't say I will help other people at all times unless I get a chance to rub it in or get a chance to ham it up and goof off. No, not a federal offene on our part and I don't really expect anybody to go Charles Manson on us because he had to sing for a hat or book 20 years ago. What I am getting at is the Principal of it. In principal, we should enjoy the good feeling we get from reuniting somebody with their lost or misplaced property. It's our " Do a good turn daily" . It's our KIND , COURTEOUS , LOYAL ( to each other) , HELPFUL , FRIENDLY , and keeping with " To help other people at all times..." So, in my case, I saw what Twocubdad wrote and it didn't really stand out or mean much to to at the time. But I have mulled it over and the thought just kept popping back in my head over and over. The fact the idea wouldn't go away says something in itself. So today I realized that making a scout sing for stuff ( although not necessarily a bad or evil act ) is indeed opposite of what we promise to do time after time again. Okay, I said my piece. You can agree or disagree...I am okay with that. Just had to state my feelings on this. Mark

Patchtown, there is another company that also starts out with "Patch-" in the beginning of their name. All told, I contacted about 7 different patch companies. I may have used your name when talking about the other "Patch-" company or any of the other patch companies. My only point was I found a better deal with a minimum number of patches that actually coincides with trhe number of boys in a BSA patrol.

Congratulations! I start my WB in November. As for celebration, maybe you could walk the plank and take "The Dive of Honor" ?

Basement, Nah, no outlets at all. At least not at our campsite. Our bathouse and our shelter do have 3 lights each, but no plugs anywhere. The scout would have to walk to the dining hall, admin building or Med center. Thing is, instead of just telling mom that the games and electric fan were useless, both scout and mom went into mother in charge of all mode. "Some one needs the stones to put their foot down." Yeah, that's what the AC ( going to be SM next month) and myself( ASM) are planning on doing. Thing is, I just want to make sure I do it in a tactfull enough way to not cause a parent to freak out and want to remove their son from the troop because the think prison wardens took over.

SPL and Pl's conduct shakedowns. Depending on where we are going and what we are doing and at what time of year, boys will pack gear in trailer the night before departure, but will keep daypack with them. If we are going to hike in or be at camp later in the day, boys usually keep bug spray and sunblock in day pack to put on before we get to the hot sunny bug infested campsites. Mom, It's not just 1st year or NSP's. It also some 2nd and 3rd year scouts. Some 1st year scouts did well in their second year of Webelos and haven't had an issue. The parents are the way they are regardles of how long or newly joined the scouts are in the troop.

Yeah, I know, but I was just replying to BlueJackets lamment about what units use popcorn money for. As for coincil asking those questions, maybe ( and I am guessing) it helps them to understand if a unit goes off the wall with fundraising and or has contoll of their budget. Last year, one of these thrads made mention of a troop with $60,000 in the bank. I kid you not! That troop shouldn't need to hold a fundraiser and the council might give them a talk about using money instead of just raising and saving it. Also, could be that your unit doesn't have a budget due to new inexperienced leadership. They might just want to raise money and spend it left and right withour realizing that next years new recruits will be starting before rcharter fees are collected. Does the unit have the money to teach and enetertain the scouts until dues time comes around? Can unit go ahead and reserve a camp spot or event ( some require 6 months notice) until scouts get money in And lastly, could be the council will tell the DE that you are prime and ripe for a FOS visit!

" I know units who do their annual popcorn sale, then use the proceeds throughout the rest of the year to pay for EVERYTHING - recharter, handbooks, awards, camping, Pinewood Derby...the families do not pay one red cent." And what is wrong with that? Most councils will tell you as an incentive to sell, that you can pay for rcharter, camping trips, events, awards, uniforms, ect....if you sell enough popcorn. It's part of the intention of the plan. Of course, the more you sell, the more the council gets! And families do pay. You don't think cub scouts walk to the pack meetings, den meetings, meet up whereever they sell popcorn or when they go camping do you? And who are the DL's, ADL's, Committee and CM? They are parents too! They put in twice as much work as the scout for every unit of popcorn sold!

The AC didn't make the rules, he just happened to be the one to vocalize them as yet another pre trip reminder. I remind the guys as does the SM all the time. But in our paticular case, the AC is stepping up to take over as SM come August. Thing is, he is one of those who will let boys make mistakes and learn from them ( not dangerous or fatl, mind you) , but will still tell mom and dads that they too, can help the boys by not going out and buying a bunch of garbage food. You know how it is...tell the boys the same thing over and over - and as soon as mom or dad says something is okay, the scout will forget any rules and go with the answer he likes.

How do you get parents to understand? A few examples: 1) As we gathered right before leaving for summer camp, our AC again stressed that it was a "Soda free" event. He mentioned ( again) how scouts should have already been drinking plenty of water BEFORE the day of departure. At this point, a mom says to her son( with a sly smile): " So how is your ( wink , wink ) tea?" Son replies : "My ( wink, wink )tea is good!" Problem was his tea was very obviously fizzy and carbonated. Coke, Pepsi, Dr Peper or some other dark carbonated cola. 2) We tell scouts to be sure to put on sunscreen before venturing out for the day at summer camp - especially if they are going to waterfront( shirtless) . One or two scouts tell us: "I don't know if I have sun block!" So I ask: "What do you mean you don't know ? Didn't you pack it with you? We gave you a list of stuff to bring> We did a shakedown the night before leaving." " But my mom packed my stuff, I didn't pack anything!" 3) Dad/ mom says these are the MB's I need to do first, so I'm not working on Geocaching( during geocaching camporee) requirements. 4) Mom sys I can wear flip flops to camp if I want to! 5) Scout shows up to load his gear on scout trailer before departure and has three big clear plastic totes. One has sleeping bag, blanket and clothes, next one has battery operated fans, electric fan ( must have a 67 mile extention cord?) and video game. Third tote is full of sodas, boxES of candy,4 or 5 packs of cookies, twinkies, pop tarts, etc..... His 3 totes would have taken up as much space as the next 8 scouts backpacks. I say would have as we put a stop to it. Problem is - we have said time and time again about no electronics, video games, ton of junk food. And no, we don't mind scouts bringing some snacks, but this kid could have opened his own mimi-mart at a 2 night camp! So, obviously, these parents are fighting us behind the scenes. I don't think they are purposly being malicious or intentionally trying to cause ill will or problems. It's just that they "know their own son better" and they don't think what we say applies to their angel. So no doubt, I am gonna have to have a sit down with mom and/or dad, it's just that I realize there may be a more tactful way of talking to them than what I am plnning on saying. Nah, I do not plan to bite their heads off, just going to tell them there is a reason for everything we say wether they realize it or not....and it applies to junior too. So, I know some of you rode this horse before. Any advice? And just for the fun of it, what issues did you have?

Page 133 of the ScoutMaster Handbook - Right hand side of page 1st yellow highlighted box of text: " Any enforced physical action such as PUSHUPS should not be used as punishment or discipline." Bold emphasis is mine, but the text specifically and intentionally says push ups. Page 133 of Scoutmaster's Handbook - Right hand side of page - Second highlighted box of text: " Physical discipline is not appropriate. Spanking, shaking, slapping, and other forms of corporal punishment should never be used by scout leaders. "

Besides, times where different back when that rule was written. Kinda like how alot of what Jeasus said doesn't apply because that was before computers. ( I kid you not - I actually had somebody tell me that last one!)

NOPE! Because it isn't the writer that is the issue, it's the personal interpretation of the reader. You say waterbug, I say Palmetto bug, the exterminator says cockroach. "It's a great, clearly written rule with no excpetions except..... Great rule but doesn't apply to my situation because......" No matter if that rule had a 24 page summary to cover every sitaution, somebody wouyld find a loophole due to a particulart prsonal reason.

I consider "participating in a flag ceremony" and "participating in a color guard during a flag ceremony" to be two different things. At our pack meets that we are lucky enough to have outside with the firepit and flag pole - it is easy to see who has participated: The scouts who stand at attention when "scout's attention" is called by the Color guard announcer. THose same scouts also salute when the flag is raised and say the pledge. They drop their salute at the call of "two", and stand at attention until the color guard departs from the flag pole. They then relax . Scouts who are not participating are those who end up standing/ sitting beside their parents, who are yaking away, who are running around...etc while not saluting, paying attention to or observing the ceremony. Participating in a flag ceremony is not the same as being a part of the color guard itself.

For parents night, we invited any camp staff that we or our scouts worked directly with, and those who didn't have other plans or invites to join us for dinner. When those who accepted our invites showed up, we intruduced them as our honored guests, let them be the first to get served, and talked and chatted with them after eating while the boys played capture the flag. A few nights later, we invited those same staff members for our cookies ice cream social. SM went out and bought a bunch of ice cream, topings, and cookies on his own dime. During the friday night campfire, we gave troop made individually personalized mementoes ( leather necklaces ) to the PD, CD and the staff that our boys worked with. But I do suppose how you treat the staff is entirely dependant on how they treated you. Our camp staff was entirely professional - with the exception of one who tried to bribe the scouts out of doing his job by signing off the weeks worth of MB cards on the first day so he could play ultimate frisbee - so we gave them the respect that the earned and deserved.

So if I remember history correctly, Australia was originally a prison exile for British subjects. So I am surprised that they ever pledges to the queen to begin with. I mean, "I pledge to the figurehead of the government that exiled my people" ?

Being rich or poor does nothing to a scout. It doesn't make them more or less proud of what they do or their uniform. In my experience, this is what I have seen: Rich mom or dads can be the problem. I say "can" because some of our rich mom and dads are some of the hardest working, dive in to help, compasionate, make sure everybody is treated fairly - parents! Of course, some of the rich parents think that , because they have a better house, car, job, bank account - that the rules do not apply: Mom sneaks her son a case of soda for camp. Tells SM she gave son a case of water. Before we leave, she looks at son and asks if he has his (wink, wink) water in his tote box. Scouts says , yes, I have my (wink, wink) water. Mom gets into her $45,000 Expedition and drives off. Scout is only doing as he is given example to by his parents. With the scouts, it's how they are being raised by their parents. We have one scout who is heading to Betchel next year who is raising 100% of all funding by himself even though it would be much easier to get daddy to pay for it. THis scout is also tanned and has quite a muscular body as he choses to work outside doing whatever he can to make money. Dad just doesn't understand why. WE have some scouts who would go to the ER if trhey developed a calous on their hands. Why the difference between these two scouts? How they were raised and how their parents attitudes are. SO, I'd never ever say that a rich scout is spoiled or that they will get it one day. They may be the least spoiled and have "gotten" it a long time ago. Tell your complainers that they are making excuses for their own shortcomings. Signed- A "not rich by any means" scouter!

We are going to play "psycho Golf" ! It's an indoor minerature golf course in a former dept store in the mall. But it's pitch black except the black lights and everything is dayglow and neon colored. Can't say for anybody else, but August is the prime humidity season in Eastern NC.

Curious: Does hours mean total clock hours of everybody working as in 4 people working 10 hours counts as 10 hours OR It is a total of combined working hours as in 4 people working 10 hours equals 40 hours

Okay, I have only been to 1 Boy SCout summer camp. Been to quite a few camporees, and troop events, but only one summer camp. Seems I read about or hear about the horrors of checking in - or more specifically - the agonizingly long line at the swim check. First things first: We know having a troop swim check at a pool beforehand will save you time - unless the waterfront director decides to challenge you anyays - which hh has the right to do. But putting that aside for a minute, what else can make things easier for a unit? I don't know if this is unique, uncommon or happens elsewhere all the time, but it6 was new for our camp: scheduled unit check in times. Our unit was scheduled to check in at 2:45 pm. The unit befoe us was schedules to check in at 2:00 pm. The next unit after us was scheduled to check in at 3:30pm Not sure it it was for our convienence or for the benefit of the staff. Don't really care. So, there were no long lines anywhere. Not at swim check( we had 2 scouts who missd both troop checks), not at medical center, not at admin. Matter of fact, the only vehicles at admin were ours and the admin staff. Another cool detail was the dining schedule: Breakfast and supper were the usual fare - colors before entering dining hall: Unit waiers enter 15 minutes early and set up unit tables, All stand for grace, all eat , all dismissed, unit waters clean up. But lunch was different. Instead of the usual 45 minute block of time, lunch was cafeteria style: You could come in whenever you wanted between 12 and 2 pm. Stand in serving line for food, take it to your unit's designated table(s), eat at your own pace, then clean your own mess and leave. That worked out great for scouts who had MB sessions on the other side of camp or who were participating in waterfront activities before lunch. They had time to shower ( yeah, that's funny, I know! ) and change clothes ( yeah, that's even funnier) before wandering to the dining hall. So again, I don't know if you do this all the time or never heard of such a thing, but I know it was new for our camp.

Okay, I do not usually post pictures of scouts that are not my own children on websites.....but I figure this time wil be the exception since : 1) You cannot see his face. 2) I am not telling you his name. There is no display of council name, unit number, SSN, address, ect The reason I want you to see thse two pictures are because this NSP scout really impressed me. Second day of summer camp, this scout - who might be 70 pounds soaking wet in a wool uniform - decided he wanted to try climbing the rock wall. Well, after he gets 10 feet off the ground, he realizes he is scared of heights. The anchorman gives him a pep talk and some encouragement, and before you know it, he is "slapping the log" at 70 feet off the ground. Then he climbs the other two sides as well. Gets to the top and slaps those logs too. If you look to the right side of the picture, you can see that the wall has a 4' outcropping ledge you must get around. The next day, he goes to the COPE "Tango" tower and climbs all 3 sides of that too. I have to admit, I am very highly impressed with both his ability and his determination to get to the top as well as his ability to overcome his fear. THis is a memory of camp we will both always have. ROCK WALL TOWER: (Only scout in picture) http://www.facebook.com/groups/172739770499/#!/photo.php?fbid=486255144736107&set=o.172739770499&type=1&theater COPE "TANGO" TOWER ( scout in red shirt) http://www.facebook.com/groups/172739770499/#!/photo.php?fbid=486263074735314&set=o.172739770499&type=1&theater

I have the switchbacks. They are awesome. Spend a week at camp with them. In the early morning it can be chilly ouit ( if you are lucky) Have them in pants mode. Finish with colors and head back to camp and unzip the legs as it is strating to warm uyp. Spend day around camp doing camp type stuff. Next day, might be chilly and wear them as pants again. After colors, unzip legs for the day. If it's hot and humid, I wear them as shorts. If we go hiking in tick territory, I'll zip the legs back on. Same thing if there are alot of those tiny briar vines. If we are hiking in a relativly tick free , briar free zone, zip them off. I wear these same pants at pack meetings and CoH's too - in pants mode. WEar them to RT's as poants except in August. Nice thing is they are two pairs in one. I do not have to pack both shorts AND pants. Next thing that I love are the supplex shorts. You can wear them as uniform shorts, class b shorts or swim trucnks. They proved themselves at camp: Boys would go swimming, then rinse off. By the time they walked across camp to next MB session, shorts were dry. This gave scouts extra time to talk, go to trading post or just take time going to next MB session without having to go back to campsite to change clothes.

"but where does it say that in the ruuuuullllleeeesssss???!!!" It dosn't have to say it..it's a BOY SCOUT CAMP