Scoutfish

A always, I will preface by saying: I respect everybody's right to their own beliefs and opinions and defend youyr right to have them. I also am not predjudiced or bigoted. I goptta bite okay, so let's begin: It's not rhetoric. It's a sin, listed in the bible and in the eyes of God there is no difference. In the eyes of men and hearts of men, apparently, there is some difference. Men like to pick and choose, and God does not. The bible tells us that we are supposed rto rest on the sdabbeth - which is a Saturday, Yet, we do not. We still do as e please, which is a direct afront to God. But apparently not enough to matter to us . We are also told that we are not to judge one another, that we must do unto others as we would have them do to us. So, unless we want to be treated the same way, we ought to stop putting ourselves above them, and stop pointing and judging them. The bibles tell us that he who has not sinned , throw the first stone. Yet somehow, we are so busy throwing stones that we must have not noticed that part. The bible also says that ALL Men are sinners. Period! And it also tells us that all sins are equal. It is not a case on one sin being worse or more bad than another. So, we can toot our horn over gays being sinners, or the fact that the choose to do what they do...but then we turn right around and judge others, look down upon them, all the while completely ignoring the Sabbath and changing things around to suit our own needs, Then tell others how they are living outside God's will. Then we all tell others they really ought to attend church...yet...... "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"..... "But there is no such place in the age of grace. This building we are in is not God's temple. This building is not even a church, just the place the church meets." And we must not eat any seafood that does not have fins and scales or any animal that does not have divided hoves. So I guess we just totally screwed ourselves by eating chicken, shrimp, turkey, rabbit, duck..... Oh yeah, we can't grow tomatoes if we are also growing corn or cucumbers, or grow beans if we are growing colards. We can't grow more than one crop.

" As a rule I try not to look stupid in front of the group." DAMN! I've broken that rule too!

Reference: Safety Afloat, No. 34368 and in the Online Learning Center "All activity afloat must be supervised by a mature and conscientious adult age 21 or older who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children in his or her care, who is experienced and qualified in the particular watercraft skills and equipment involved in the activity, and who is committed to compliance with the nine points of BSA Safety Afloat. One such supervisor is required for each 10 people, with a minimum of two adults for any one group. At least one supervisor must be age 21 or older, and the remaining supervisors must be age 18 or older." Bold is mine for emphasis. So we now know how many have to be with the boys. It does not sound like you have to have 2 per boat, Not even one per boat actually. The crew of the boat qualify , so you could get by with only one leader for the whole group. Not that i think you will have a problem getting laders or adults there! "Safety Afloat BSA groups shall use Safety Afloat for all boating activities. Adult leaders supervising activities afloat must have completed Safety Afloat training within the previous two years. Cub Scout activities afloat are limited to council or district events that do not include moving water or float trips (expeditions). Safety Afloat standards apply to the use of canoes, kayaks, rowboats, rafts, floating tubes, sailboats, motorboats (including waterskiing), and other small craft, but do not apply to transportation on large commercial vessels such as ferries and cruise ships." What you have to determine is , that since the boats are commercial craft, what rules apply. So, call your DE and ask him.

When I was 14, I "helped" spray paint a water tower. By "helped" I was there. I didn't paint on anything. Matter of fact, I didn't even scale the fence like trhe other two did. But I was there, I was aware, and I still hung out with my two friends. When I was 18 to 20 years old...I smoked my fair share of weed. I probably met my lifetime quota of consumed beer too in that time. I got pulled over for a random vehicle check and got caught with one joint when I was 20. I didn't get completely arrested, but I was taken to trhe policr station. At that point, I chnged things around. To behonest, since I did not go to court, I don't know if there is a record of any kind. I doubt there is, but I have no issue telling people what happened. First of all, who I was when I was 18 or 20 years old is not remotely close to who I am now. Secondly, I was young, immature and knew everything back then. So, my point is this: While I wouldn't advertise what you did in the past, I would not hide it in any way to the leadership or committee of the pack. Be up front, be honest and relax. If those in charge do not want you in a leadership postion now, they can and will still let you help out in all kinds of other ways. That leads to you giving a demo of what you can do, which will probably lead to being a DL...assuming they don't accept you to start with. I'd hope the COR, and committe are realsisticly attuned with the real world. The you, that you are now is not the you, that you were 18 years ago. Good Luck

" Naw this is fishes thread... " Now , I hope you don't mean to imply that I am so special that - this thread doesn't get it's fair chance to be completely and totally hijacked from the original thread - like others do.? Unkiewill Basement lives in a special bizzaro council where scouts are not allowed to do anything except raise and hand money to the DE and his back of the office poker room full of good ole boy bussies buddies. What he has described time after time after time is quite possibly the sorriest bunch of excuses for scouters.

Yeah, sounds like Wood Badge Mill to me! LOL!

One-on-one contact between adults and Scouts prohibited. Sorry parents, you cannot tough your children in any way or be alone with them because no exception is listed. According to YP in the G2SS under "Yout Protection and Adult Leadership: " Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping facility " The way I read this is "Registered youth participants" such as a co-ed unit as in a ships crew or venturer crew. Not siblings of a cub scout. Especially since - the only time you would see a sister camping with her brother outside of a venturer or ship's crew - would be during a family or pack campout. So, from my point of view, it's not so much a case of where somebody has to prove that you can allow a brother and sister to sleep in the same tent as it is a case of YOU have to prove they can't!

SSS I agree with what you are saying. Not everybody can or should teach. Just on a smaller perspective, I can look at my pack committee and leaders. Our CC is a very smart and knowledgable man. Put in in front of everybody at a pack meeting for annouincements and he almost sounds like : " Beuller?...Beuller?, Beuller?.... Some leaders work great with their dens, but again, as they pass out awards to the scouts at pack meetings, trhese guys are sweating bullits and almost stuttereing. Me? I can do it. I can stand up in front of people and do almost anything. I guess I passed that test when I dressed up like a ballerina for my cubs. I also know some leaders who, put in a specific situation, can do what they need to do, but could not tell anybody else how to do it. For example, we used to have a MacGyver of a DL. Give the man a pocket knife, a paperclip and a pencil, and some string, he'd make a 5 story elevator to his treetop penthouse in the woods. ASk him how to make a paper airplane...he couldn't even tell you how to make the very first fold in the paper!

Basement: Your district SUCKS!!! Yes, We need districts. We have 4 districts that used to be 8 districts. Out of the 4 ( that used to be 8) only two districts put on camporees, Webelos(ree) weekends, and other events that are not council camping . Our district has camp cards that suit our district and not the entire council. Our DE has been the longest serving DE in our council and we know each other by first name at RT's, and our co-district camporees. This would not happen on the council level. I'd have to travel even farther to attend meetings, listen to more blah blah blah before getting to stuff I really need to hear, and the meetings would last about 4 times longer to boot. The way I see it, it's kinda like the military: The 4 star General does not meet with individual soldiers to convey the daily or monthly going ons. He meets up with his officers ( DE's) who in turn command the lower ranking officers ( SM's/ CM's etc..) and they in turn give commands and orders to the soldiers ( scouts, other scouters, membership, etc,.... Okay, not a perfect analogy, but you get my drift.

I guess it comes down to a basic, yet very common problem: The 20/80 rule: 20 percent do for the other 80 percent. Guess it works that way in instruction too. Your core group of regular volunteers are also the same ones putting on 3 weeks of resident camp, 3 weeks of parent son, 4 weeks of summer camp (adult staff as well as 2 deep unit leadership) venturing activities, the spring and fall camporees, BALOO courses, Pow-Wows, IOLS courses,running PWD's any other events that I can't think of right now. Then on top of that, those same group of volunteers have other outside activities: coaching football, basketball, soccer, baseball, softball lacross, den/pack/troop/crew/venterure meetings......Girl scouts, AHG, church stuff... Our council only does it every two years because the same people running the course are also ticket counselors, so they do not teach while acting as ticket counselors. I'm surprised they have time to work or eat too! But again, the 20/80 rule definantly applies in my district,( based on RT appearances and staff at events) and seems like it aplies to my council too.

No, I don't think it was too bold. Your job is to help and to mentor units , right? So where does it say you have to wait for something to fall apart and trhey ask for help before you act? I mean, it's one thing is they were having meetings and such, but just not to your particular liking. But it's different when you can personally observe they are not getting the basic stuff for survival done. Kinda like a lifeguard: Do you wait for a person to dissapear underwater before you jump in or do you react at the first sign of trouble? Sure, they are not drowning ...yet...but they will be soon if you do not act.

Personally. I will judge an individual, not by a group he may be associated with/ I do not care if a person is gay or not. It's not like being gay is conatgeous or that suddenly there will be a gay sex fest at meetings and campouts. But, I as well as everybody else know what BSA's stance is. I do not join a club to protest their rules and insist they change....especially when part of the clubs identity is based on the rules it has. Know what I mean? I don't get a membership at a bar in order to protest consumption of alcohol. I do not join a gun club because I think guns should be banned. So, while I have no problem with gay or athiest leaders in BSA, I alo know how BSA felt when I joined up. If I really do have an issue with the rule, the thing to do is quit and join another club

Okay, that helped me figure it out. S We are in the southern region 425 My council's number is 425 Cape Fear Council 12 It is the year 2012 7 is still a mystery as my council will only teach one WB class every two years.

Congratulations! Just registered and paid for my class on Friday

OUCH! Those words are a basic tennet of speaking in the south. It's also a greeting made to a group of males by an individual male. Speaking of, it reminds me of a joke I heard once , and happen to have some fact behind it: Q: What is the mating call of a southern woman? A: "I'm sooooo drunk!"

Went Friday to the Scout Office and paid for my WB class. Wood Badge S7-425-12 From what I understand, they are doing something different this year by having the first session Nov 2 - 4 and the second session Nov 16 - 18. Something about holidays and time constraints for participants. I know in the past they usually did one weekend in nov and the second in Dec...so I do think I will like this setup better. On a side note, what does the s7-425- 12 stand for? I assume that the 12 stands for 2012?

Kids are - for the most part - as tough as you let them be. When my son was 4 and 5 years old, you'd almost thought he was a vitim of child abuse. Bruises and cuts and scrape every where. Constantly running, jumping, and crashing into everything. So how tough was he? WEll, if he was running around and fell or crashed into something while I was watching him, I'd look at him and ask: "Did you hurt that wall ( or whatever it was he ran into)?" He'd laugh it off and keep right on playing. When my wife would be there or watching him, as soon as he tripped, fell or ran into something, the mommy voice came out: "OH my poor little baby! Come let mommy make it better!" And just as sure as death and taxes, my son would take a few seconds to let his face crinckle up and he'd run crying to her arms. You know, he used to milk her and her sympathy for a long time. Got away with all kinds of stuff. Now, I'm not saying I ignored him getting cut or breaking an arm, just saying that every little bump or fall was not a trauma case national emergency. My son learned alot from this. And of course, when we go camping, I enforce hygene to the point of being sanitary when eating or at least not smelling so ripe you don't run everybody else off. My wife? She's one of those chase you down with hand sanitizer and moist towletts. She must think we have full scale showers/spas every 15 feet throughout any camp.

Even though I think the green ands tan would look better, Go with white lettering on a black background to match the color of the nametag you would buy if you were buying it from the scout shop. Or white lettering on red background if you have that type of position within the council.

That's a great point I never would have thought of Horizon:} Checking in at - and thus advertising to the world via facebook - that you are on top of "Mt Alot of sweat to get there". I see no harm at all in this and in fact, it issues a challenge to your other scout friends to do the same.

Hooter's has just never done anything for me. I'm just not impressed. Been there quite a few times as my boss would offer to buy lunch there. Been there a few times with my friends too. They do have an awesome steak and cheese sandwhich though. So, my son may decide to hike there. he may decide to hike to a beach that has it's share of bikinis and thongs. He might decide to hike somewhere more intense. Maybe his patrol wants to meet at a deli that also serve beer and the waitstaff are known for their minimal dress. WHo knows what they will chose. But the thing here is to let them experience all sides of life, then use their own dveloping moral judgement to make better decisions in life. Okay, from personal experince, I have been friends with 3 different people who's fathers were preachers. Two were males and one was a female. One of the males was my best friend for many years and part of my wedding party. His wife( now ex-wife) is very good friends with my wife to this day. WEll, my friend was a beer drinker and quite the party animal. His wife was too. They both would talk the talk, but couldn't walk the walk. They stole stuff, they cheated on each other, they did pretty much the opposite of what their parents had taught them. The girl I was friends with..well, she'd dress all nice and proper when her parents were around, but as soon as daddy went off on a buisnes trip with mom in tow, she was into catsuits, leather mini skirts, pvc clothing and such. Little weed here, little bit of coke there, sleep with whoever was willing. Third friend, well, he had a knack for aquirring and selling stuff that was stolen. Dealt weed too. So, what I saw was that just preaching and preaching and preaching to them could just as easily get you a child that will respond exactly opposite of what you expected. Now, some other friends I had who were in very religious families or had c lergy for parents...well, there parents were not so strict., They did stuff , they dabbled and they experienced life just like everybody else. Today you will find them all to be very decent people with outstanding morals. Now, I do have to say one thing about the following comment: "establishments that make their reputation and profit by objectifying other people" What is really being objectified? The women of the money they make from it? Take into consideration that these girls voluntarily sought out the job, made their own decision to apply, fill out an application and work there for pay that is not shabby at all. Is it really objectifying them if they willfully engage in it? Maybe the women are objectifying themselves? I mean, we are not talking about forced servitude or indentured servants, They are not sex slaves either. So anyways, my point is this: I am not going to encourage my son to drink beer every night. I am not going to suggest he try all sorts of drugs. I will not teach him to steal either. But I do expect him to experience life on his own, and make decisions on his own based on his own morals that he polishes through experience instead of just because dad said so. Me, I drank enough beer when I was 19 and 20 to last a lifetime. I smoked enough weed too. Used to be quite a party animal. Today, I can tell you that I do not use any drugs. I don't even take many medicines that are prescribed to me either. Just me. Tylenol and Tums are about as extreme as I go. Drinking? I can count on one hand how many times I have drank in the last ten years. And for each of those times, I can count on one hand how many drinks I had. My point? I saw, I did, I got over it. Doesn't appeal to me at all. But what I did do is experience life, came up with my own decisions of my own free will. Not because somebody forbade me to do it. It's part of learning and growing. But as for Hooters itself? I don't see a big deal with it. Not my cup of tea, but neither are restaurants where you wear tuxedos just to impress yourself and everybody around you. I mean come on, does wearing a tuxedo really make you a better person? More class or just social elitism?

I agree. WE are supposed to be preparing thee boys for handling themselves in the real world. WEll. the real world has women in it!

In my opinion, having a female leader in scouting in a troop that also has male leaders would not take away from the experience any more than having a mom in the house, a female school teacher, coach, etc.... Not as long as there are other male leaders. Now, if it was an all female leadership troop..that could be different.

It's kinda a big lumping of role models.... I can see Boy Scouting as a source of possitive male role models for those who are from broken homes where dad's invovlement is zero or where dad is there, but his presence and or behavior is worse than not being there ie: drunk, always too busy for anything invovling son, etc... But for scouts who are in good homes with fathers who are invovled in there scouts lives...well, scouting isn't gonna compete with dad. Of course, in my time with scouting,. I have seen uncles and grandfathers and uncle who are just as much a positive role model to teh boys as a dad could be. Matter of fact, considering the fact that they are not the actual father...I have to give them the highest props for that!

There was some talk about combining OWLS and IOLS, but so far........ But in reality, you might as well take IOLS as it is just as usefull for Webelos as OWLS is . If you think about it, everything Webelos is pretty much about getting ready for Boy Scouts: You dump achiebements and elective, parents can no longer sign off on things, they earn activity pins instead of achievements toward rank, they can use a patrol name and patch ( even though they are still called a den) , they can camp as a den instead of camping only with the pack, etc...... You could take OWLS, but before you know it, you will need to take IOLS if you crossover with them and become an ASM in a troop.

Our cards were tied in with Harris Teeter. Same thing: $5.00 instantly off a $50.00 purchase and figured before coupon discounts. Also we had Taco Bell and KFC with buy one/get one free dinner combos. THose 3 were only for 6 months though. The middle of the cards had 6 or 7 diferent chains: Oil change shop, Barbershop, Mexican restaurant, Tire store, etc.... Most of them were 105 discounts and good for the entire year. WE had our 14th annual chicken dinner last weekend. This year,we didn't do so hot. Our beach location ( we's Home Improvement parking lot) sold $1,830.00 and our CO location sold around $500.00. Well, the economy hasn'r ben so great, peolple really been tightening down too. There were about 8 other groups holding fundraisers that same weekend, two of which were for a local 6th grader who has a rare brain cancer - less than 30 cases ever diagnosed. We ended up gining all clear donations to her too. She lives across the street from our CC and has played with his daughter for years. Giving back to te community. So, we have about 6 cases of chicken that were never opened and we froze them. We will be having another dinner in a few weeks at just the beach location this time. Hope it does better this time as this is our main source of funding.