Scoutfish

Going back to my old pack tonight to run the Pack meeting. The CM waon't be able to do it due to unexpected obligations. The rest of the leadership and committee got together and decided they wanted me to do it because they wanted the boys to have fun and enjoy it. Doesn't sound that big a deal , but I have moved over 30 miles away from my old residence which was already 12 miles from the CO. I live in an entirely different council. I asked the CC if they really needed me to do it and he said: " Oh Yeah! WE really, really need YOU to do this. We want the boys to enjoy scouting!"

They pay the full dues. Thing is, they are just completeling the full circle. See, way back when they joined as tigers, they paid Boy's Life, Insurance and registration fees to the council - not the pack. So when they came to the pack, the pack itself covered the cost of any and all recieved awards, pins, beltloops, etc..... until recharter comes in January. So, you geta free ride for 4 months( at end of year) as a Tiger, you pay full price ( at beginning of the year) for 3 months. So, anybody really feel that cheated over one month?

" Perhaps it was discussed at a pack committee meeting which Blujacket didn't attend. Or perhaps Bluejacket didn't attend the program planning meeting where a decision was made. " Doesn't matter a single bit. Even the entire committee ( which exists only on paper) decides to not participate as a pack,fine - but they NEVER EVER have the authority or right to prevent families from doing things on their own. The families get to make the final decision as to wether they want to attend a scouting event. And if the CM thinks that this is competing with her program, then she needs to step back and improve her program. That's her issue, not the families, the districts or council's problem. Again, as the former CM, I worked really hard and the pack and it's members was able to reap the rewards of being able to choice which or all events they were going to. Personally, I didn't care much for a district event. Kinda dull, kinda crowded, kinda expensive. But I also don't like cherries. Doesn't mean anybody else feels the same way as me. Doesn't mean i have the right to ban cheries from pack cookouts or camp menus. Plenty of events that were posted for families to go to. Some familie would go to ever council/district evant as well as all pack events. Some would do half and half. Others would only go to pack events. Point is, in each case, they made up their own minds and made their own choices. If I was scared that the council was competition with my pack, then i would be the one with issues. Alot can be done in a years time. If one or two council/ district events ruins what your pack is doing, then you you ain't doing much at all and are doing a diservice to the scouts!

"So imagine on Monday morning, I'm making up a simple flyer for your unit - Pack X, United Methodist Church, meets blah blah, Cubmaster name and phone number." THis is where you should have stopped. You called and you left messages. So you didn't get a responce back in the time framce you decided on. Too bad. You offerend some help. Let it go at that. What if I decide your grass isn't cut as short as or as often as I like? Doesn't give me the right to go and cut your grass. Same about your laundry, oil changes on your car, etc... Not your decision, not your job. But as a former CM, I got your back 100% on telling the families about any and all scouting events!

There are two seperate issues here: What is going on in this thread, and what is going on in the other. Two different issues with two different acceptabilities. In this thread - let's break it down: "My children attend school in the Pack's area, my wife works there also. So I do know many of the families and talk to them." These are friends and aqqaintances...not total strangers. He has regular contact that would happen even if not involved in scouting. "There are Council and District events the Pack does not participate in. Recently I was talking to a few parents while at school and discovered the families are not being told of events." Why do the families have no clue about these events? "Therefore, they are not getting getting the opportunity to attend activities that the Pack is not directly involved in." Wow! Not only does that suck, but is very unprofessional of the CM and unscoutlike! "I made it a point to invite those families I was talking to, to an upcoming event." I have done this to scouts who were not only not in my pack, but not even in my district! As do most leaders that are volunteer and paid. As Scouters, we support and promote scouting. It's what we do and part of our job as leaders. It's what scouting is all about! PERIOD! " I was soon approached by the Cubmaster about this (one of the families must have asked her for more details about the event). She stated that she felt the event was too expensive for the families ($9 event fee) and therefore decided that the Pack would not participate. " Replace "too expensive" with boring, stupid, waste of time or "not approved by CM ". It is not the CM's job to decide what is too expensive or what is affordable. The CM is overstepping her authority and out of line here. "I am 100% behind her on the decision to organize and participate as a Pack, or not." Yeah, that is the pack's right..meaning the whole pack or the committee or leaders who decide together. " However she is not giving the families the chance to make up their own minds to attend individually, because she's not telling them about it." Power hungry? Control freak? Has to be in absolute charge? Red flags and alarms going off everywhere. Is she going to be a SM one day who picks out and assigns eagle projects? Does she decide that MB.s not earbed within the troop are not valid? Do scouts ever go to summer camp? Are camp MB's written off as " not authorized? Where does it end? Forget Philmont or Betchel! Northern Tier?.....never gonna happen! What happens when a den leaders gets his den to go to resident camp? Is he suddenly on the CM's s*** list? Will CM decide that the DL is rogue and needs to be kicked out? Sorry, but like Beardad said, some of you need to get over yourselves. Remember why we are here, what it's about and not some huffy puffy social staus withing the scouting hierarchy! God forbid anybody other than the CM tell families about some scouting events. I guess if the CM decides she doesn't want to camp anymore, camping will become a non pack type activity. Maybe the CM will black list the council camp promotor and complain to the SE about the scout office mailing out flyers. Again, there are two seperate issues. DC overstepped his authority when he started printing flyers for recruiting. No arguement there, But CM does not have monopoly over who gets to talk to scouts and parents about scouting events and oppertunities. THis CM is gonna cause this pack to fold . No doubt about it.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

"Families may opt-in for emails and news. Put a flyer in the scout shop advertising that, if there isn't one already." While this is indeed true, you have to recognize that with most families, 98% of any scouting info the get ( at the pack level) comes from pack leadership. We as scouters tend to forget what it's like being a non scouter parent, or a new to scouting parent. With most things scouting related...you are not aware of it's existence if not being told by your leadership. G2SS? WHat is that? Never heard of it til I became an ADL and took ADL training. IT wasn't something the leadership at my pack ever brought up and I certainly didn't know you could buy a copy of it at the scout shop. Emails? Everything you do anywhere at anytime wants to sign you up for e-mails. I think we tend to check no on the boxes out of subconscious habit. My council wil not put you on the flyer mailing list until after you attend a camp event.....so what you have is a "Catch 22" situation: You won't get on the flyer list unless you go camping, but you won't ever go camping if you don't get a flyer announcing the events. Parents also tend to assume that the leaders know what they are talking about and trust those leaders. If the CM was to tell the parents that standing up in a moving canoe while shooting a bb gun at glass jugs of gasoline next to a bon fire is okay...then the parents will think it's okay even if a bad idea. So anyways, my point is this: A flyer at the scout shop may not ever bee seen by the average parent. E mails ( if even sent)may end up in a spam folder without the recipient even knowing about them. Benn there - done that! Mark

Been a while since I posted, but gonna throw my $.02 in anyways... Screw the CM's wishes! THis isn't about the CM, This isn't about stepping around somebody's authority ( which doesn't exist in this particular issue) ! This is about scouts and their oppertunity/ ability to do a scouting activity! My pack used to have two pack campouts every year( before I became CM) . The funny thing was that they were held at the same time the council held it's parent/son weekends and at the same time as Resident camp. Seems the current CM thought council events were boring, over rated and too expensive. And the truth be told, they were overrated and kinda expensive. Problem is, she made the decisions for the families without ever giving them any chance to decide for themselves. Families were not aware of the events. When I became CM, I posted and advertised every council and distict event that was held wether I planned on going or not. It did not have to be a pack function. I did not have to personally like or enjoy the event myself. Wether a district fun day, council fun day, or even a non scouting event like an air show, festival, childrens museum event, etc.... - I posted it on the pack website and facebook page. A funny thing happened: Scouts, scouters, and parents started going to council events, district events, AND pack events. Scouts had more fun. Parents started helping out at events and planning meetings. Then you also had the families that couldn't make a pack event due to scheduling conflicts. Could be out of town that week, have another event they had to attend or even a sick scout. Guess what, they kept up their scouting intake by going to council/ district events also. So a scout/ parent doesn't make a pack event. What then? Scout has to wait til the next event whenever that happens? So, here's the deal.....Thwe issue here is a CM on a huge egotistical power trip who has taken it upon herself to make all decisions for the pack's families. Decisions that she does not need or have the right to make. So as a DC from another district, you may be overstepping the line going around her with recruiting, but as fas as making events known to the parents...I think you are doing the right thing as a scouter. The parents and scouts deserve the right to know about these events and make attendance decisions for themselves. Thy also have the right to decide what they can afford or not. The CM is not responcible for making these decisions. The CM is not Big Brother. That IS NOT the CM"s place to decide.

I think you are mixing up two seperate issues here: 1) BSA's policies for being a member of BSA 2) Getting people to attend a fundraiser. BSA may disqualify you from joinginmg scouting for being gay or athiest, but believe you me..they will have no problem witha scout selling popcorn ( or whatever the fundraier is) to a gay or athiest. BSA joining requirements do not apply to hosting fundraisers for units, individuals or council. So, for your fundraiser, invite anybody and everybody you want.

Depends on the award. Award knots are presented at the end of pack meetings when they are earned. Pack unit awards are presented during B&G and at crossovers and year end rank graduation. WE don't overshadow rthe scouts but do get the scouts involved by being the ones who present the actual awards to the leaders.

Weight is not the sole judgement nore is it the final factor. On part C, there is even a paragraph explaining that the BMI may be used in place of just weight limits. 20% for females, 15% for males. I weight in at 257 pounds right now. I sure could stand to lose 15 pounds. I am 6'2 1/4" tall. But my BMI puts me in a good spot. We have an ASM in our troop who weighs 270 +/- . This guy probably has less than 3 pounds of fat on his body. He is bulit like a brick outhouse! Strong, toned, and could bench press his own weaight without any problems. Technically, he is grossly obese by the med forms. But realistical;ly, the man is a walking mass of muscle. Not saying the rollie pollies are withing the BMI, just saying that weight alone should not be a factor

I posted this thread here because even though socks are part of the uniform, this isn't about the who, what or why of uniforming. Okay, I have been camping more times in the last 5 years than I had been in the 36 previous years before. Faced mosquitos the size of humming birds, snakes, spiders,ticks, ants, bees, things that I am sure George Lucas wished he put in any of the Star Wars movies, and raccons( not direct contact). Never been stung, bit, attacked or eaten yet except a few skeeters and no see-ums. Last weekend, we did a service project for a National Park and as far as I could tell, everything was great. Didn't get bit by any bugs or ticks. So the night after we get back, I start itching all around my ankles. CHIGGERS!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Okay, I'm over the itching and my ankles almost look normal again. EVERYBODY got ate up by them except my son. Actually, he takes Cingular and Claratin for allergies, so that may have prevented the red itchy spots even though he may have still been eaten up. Okay, long story short: I see scouters and scouts ( usually camp staff) wear those long socks that go up to just under the knee. Sometimes green with red stripe, sometimes just green, sometimes whatever color that they just threw on. Does this have anything to do with chigger prevention or is it something else? Every spot where the chiggers got me was in fact coverd up by my socks AND sprayed very well with bug spray. But I suppose the socks could have soaked up the spray and dried up or they just went through the socks I nwas wearing.. Now, I don't wear ankle socks, even though I considered buying a few pairs for whe it is hot. I wear crew cut socks. I have never liked tall socks but if this would prevent chiggers in the middle of summer..I'd be willing to wear them. So, any relation or just a fashion statement? Thanks.

I have been on both sides of that fence too. When I see scouts from other units doing something they shouldn't, I usually don't say anything unless it involves a threat of injury, safety, bullying, or some other type of damage. I also feel like I am sticking my nose where it doesn't belong. But I also know that some mean scouts purposely wait til they are away from an adult leader ( within their own unit) to "get" the victim. On the other side of things, I do know I will be more likely to go out of my way when my scouts are observing. I guess it makes a good example for them. I bet you are like me in one sense: We tend to get biased over our own scouts and we tend to defend them no matter what if somebody from another unit calls them out. If our own leaders/parents do it, it's okay. But if another person from another unit does....look out! I have learned to speak up more and do it more tactfully. As an example, we just recently did an overnight campout/ service project at a National park in a combined effort with another troop. As we were getting ready to leave, we formed a trash line to make sure any and all trash in our area was picked up. WEll, it ended being only the boys from out troop ( 11) formed the line and the boys from the other troop ( 3 ) just sat under the shelter area. As our boys walked by the shelter - specifically in the area where the other troopp had set up it's kitchen/cooking area - the SPL from the other troop starts yelling and dressing down our scouts for not picking up 3 pieces of trash that were practically undet that troops table. NOw, this SPL was also just standing there and mde noeffort all weekend to pick up anything. So - while realizing that pieces of trash are not individually assigned to anybody and that we were picking up all trash from whoever dropped it from whenever they dropped it at this park......well, it got under my skin that this scout was doing nothing at all, about his own mess and then yelling down at "my" boys for it. So, I was tactfull, but also very, very firm in telling him : "WEll then, pick it up as you join the trash line like everybody else." The look on his face told me that he was neither used to people talking to him like that and that he never had invovlement with clean up.( his troop adults were cleaning up stove s and DO's, not the scouts. So, I guess we do our best too. We strive for better, hope we don't do worse.

Mind you, this year was my first year at summer camp, but not my first time dealing with boy scoouts. I really enjoyed the flag ceremonies. Especially the evening one when announcements were made directly afterward ( right before dinner). The staff would always do a ( insert name here) check and pile on like a football team piling on whoever got tackled. I loved the whole ditty and song that came when somebody said "announcements" I especuially like the verse about windbags and submarines. Again, I have no issue with the dining hall spirit challenge, just give extra time to let use eat our food before we end up wearing our food.

Sounds like you did a great job. I like the fact that you realize no matter how good things are, we can alwats improve somewhere or try to make it better. When we go to camp, having parents tag along has never been an issue...so far. They seem to get that they can't go. Even the ones who will miss their kids to death. They never consider the idea of going to camp. They'd rather go bring thier son home the first day. As a ASM along with any other adult leader or the SM, we always make a point of "offering" any and all suggestions to the SPL or ASPL . WE never give them to the scouts unless a scout aproaches us directly, and then only if it's not a group related question that could be handled by the SPL or ASPL. When we do offer advice to the SPL/ASPL, we always do it in a quite manner and not confrontational or directly in ront of other scouts. IF something is starting to go bad, we always pull the youth leader aside under the pretense of something else that is very important. At the dining hall, we were assigned two tables. There was always a mix of adults with boys. There were also always at least one staff member et every tables and sometimes our camp guide too. Our staff guest was a different one each day. Neat thing is that each meal, a different scout was asigned as a waiter to each table. They went to the dining hall 15 minutes early for breakfast and dinner ( lunch was cafeteria style) and set up plates,m utensils, drinks and that meals food on platters. That waiter was also assigned post dinner cleanup. On Friday night, when we were having the IronScout race, the SM, the AC and myself ( ASM) told the scouts to go ahead and we'd clean up for them. Showing them that it's okay to step up to help somebody out when things come up. Other than that, we never did their job for them during camp. WE never let them do our job, cleanup our messes, etc for us either. I totally agree with you, we do not use them for our servants or as personal assistants. Scouts did learn personal responsibility from us as we demonstarted it it every day.

ZScout5, check your Leaders uniform inspection sheet again. BSA Uniform inspection guide ( PDF ) from Boy Scout Trail: http://www.boyscouttrail.com/external_frame.asp?goto=/docs/uniform_male.pdf BSA Leaders uniform inspection sheet from BSA.org ( PDF ) http://scouting.org/filestore/cubscouts/pdf/34048.pdf " Cub scout leaders and female leaders wearing the official uniform shirt or blouse may wear one temporary insignia centered about the Boy Scouts of America strip. " Cub Scout leaders AND Female leaders. Meaning any cub scout leader andfemale leaders in other types of units. Otherwise they would have just said female leaders and not mention cub scouts.