scoutdad

Orange cover Guide to Safe scouting 2003 printing: A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos scout be under the supervision of an adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. This states clearly that a Webelos scout must be supervised by his parent or his guardian. You cant supervise if you not there. His guardian would be just that , a legal guardian. No where does it say anything about an approved adult. So - 8 Webelos scouts with 8 distinct parents means a total of 16 will go on an overnighter. The Webelos scouts can share a tent with each other while the same sex parents share a tent, or the Webelos scouts can share a tent with the person legally recognized as his parent or guardian. Do anything else and something bad happens then BSAs legal coverage will not know who you are! YIS Scoutdad

Last summer I went to FSB as an adult leader along with 6 boys and another adult. We did the coral reef sailing program. One of us adults (me), was required to be certified in safe swim defense, safety afloat, and pass a Florida boating safety course. The scouts and adults were asked to help with handling lines, anchor, capturing and tying up to the buoys and if needed anchor watches. As you can tell this is not just a simple charter service but a working learning experience, and no doubt that is the reason for the USCG wavier. Also, we never cruised for 12 hours straight, we would stop mid-morning and mid-afternoon to snorkel. I found our boat to be well maintained and the captain knew his stuff. He could maneuver his boat in and out of the cramped marina at Key West without aid of line handlers and never touching the dock. The boats practiced the buddy boat system and were always on the radio checking in with each other. The boat had sleeping berths for 6 below but some of the boys chose to sleep in the cockpit while the other adult leader and myself slept on the fore-deck (much cooler). I dont know the purpose of this thread, but I checked FSBs web site today and all is ok. Reservations continue for coral reef sailing with a min. 6 and max. 8. I would and I know the boys would go back in a heartbeat. YIS Scoutdad

Eagleinky "-SPL - Appointed by the SM. (I know several will disagree with this). The SM & ASMs appoint the SPL from the boys who have served as PL or ASPL. Our opinion is that you need to prove yourself in a patrol leadership position before taking on the SPL role. Therefore, the patrols know that electing a boy to be PL is - in essence - nominating them for future consideration as an SPL." Far too many adult leaders prefer to select the best of the litter rather that train the one elected. YIS Scoutdad

How many boys registered? 21 How many boys active? 19 How many Patrols? 3 Does your troop go to summer camp in or out of Council? In Does your troop go to Dist/Council Camporees? yes Does your troop support FOS? yes Does your troop sell Popcorn? If not, what are your fundraisers? yes Does your troop use NSP, FCFY method? Yes, yes Does your troop have a Venture Patrol? Sort of. Does your troop have a feeder pack? yes How does your troop recruit non-Cub Scouts? Buddy campouts Has your troop seen your Unit Commissioner in the past 6 months? Who? What? Is your Unit Commissioner helpful or a pain? NA Does your troop leaders attend Roundtable? Yes, 2 How many members are on your troop committee? 8 - SM, 5 ASM, CC, 2 MC Is your troop boy led? Not really Our troop would be a good expamle of "troop C". With out change we will be terminal.

I believe that every scout is at some point and in some way worthy of praise. Believing that, I would rotate who is selected as " the very best". But I cant stop there, the scout that is never dressed properly needs positive attention too. I would look carefully for some aspect of his scouting experience that was positive and let him know what a good job he was doing. Maybe with a little pride the next week that uniform might just improve a little. I think Wallace has a good attitude and I like his style. YIS Scoutdad

Without debating the merits of the many methods proposed here, I would like to point out that all focus on the negatives. What might be a better response to scouts not wearing the uniform properly is to select from each den/patrol the very best example of a properly uniformed scout to come forward and be recognized. Nobodys feeling could be hurt, a few scouts would be proud, and rest would be determined to "be up front" next time. YIS Scoutdad

SR540Beaver "A guardian can be an adult designated by an absent parent." If the adult in question is the "guardian", then why can't he sleep with the boy? Why, because he is not the "legal guardian" that the G2SS refers to. The new G2SS is a change from the past and makes clear, at least to me, that they intend for each Webelos to have one of his significant adults in his life with him on a campout. YIS Scoutdad

SR540Beaver- "Keep in mind that Webelos can camp without the pack (as a den) and without a parent present." The current G2SS (orange cover) states: A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of an adult. I understand this to mean that a parent must be present. YIS Scoutdad

Philmont mess update- Had committee meeting last night and the issue of the finances of the scout came up. Not a fun meeting but no blood was spilled With four adults out of seven having a stake in the trip it felt like I was defending a young man accused of slashing the tires on the cars of 5 of the 9 Supreme Court Justices. I reiterated that the scout said his participation was conditional at the beginning. They disagreed. I asked when was the last time he indicated an interest in going. They were insistent that he was still set on going in June. The last time funds were taken from his account was in May. I found out that this is a Council contingent trip and that the Council set its own payment schedule and refund requirements and this was given to the scout at some point. We struck a deal to split the scouts current deficit of $103, with the scout repaying $51.50. In all this will cost the scout $143 for the trip he did not go on. If a replacement can be found he could get this money back. Latter last night after the PLC meeting I pulled the scout aside and talked to him. I told him that the adults involved with the trip were sure he was indicating he was going even as late as June. He says this is not true that he never was all that interested. I asked once again just how got involved in this trip. He said that in a meeting, must have been Aug or Sept. of last year they asked all of those interested to stand up and when he saw his friends stand up and particularly my son, he stood up. One little problem. My son has consistently had no interest in Philmont every time I have asked him. To my son the program has been sold as long days of hiking and more hiking. He doesnt see it as adventure. My son briefly considered going this last Aug. because he thought his friends were going. I discussed the matter further with the scout and he related that his family could not afford the trip for him with the family going to England next year for his step-sisters wedding. Things are beginning to clear up now. At some point I believe a choice was made between Philmont or England. I feel a little like one of those Loony-Tune cartoon characters when the dynamite blows up in their hands. Ouch! YIS Scoutdad

I remember those days well... On the nights where the program/craft is just not hitting the spot and the den is sliding in to chaos, just remember these magic words - "who wants to play a game?" No mater what they are doing to destroy the meeting place, all of that will stop and you will be presented with eight sets of eager eyes looking at you intently. Check your scout shop for a book called "cub scout leader how to book". lots of games. I always had a game in my back pocket just in case the kids got bored. YIS Scoutdad

Reading SPL- 15s post and his difficulties with adult leadership led me to ponder the Boy Scout program. In the Boy Scout program, all of the roles, expectations and boundaries are set out in the various publications; handbook, SM handbook, SPL handbook, PL handbook, Guide to Safe Scouting, Oath, Law and etc. There is then no need for adult intervention, other than to reference the scouts to the appropriate source material. In the Boy Scout program, the adults are not seen as authoritarian, but a mentors who guide the development of the scouts by well posed questions. If any of the participants inadvertently strays outside of their boundaries, then a polite word from either scout or scouter should suffice to fix the problem. This parallels with Youth Protection in that each scout is empowered to protect themselves from someone stepping over their personal boundaries. In units where adults are viewed as authoritarian, an adult over stepping his/her role is to be tolerated under the guise of a scout being respectful of adults. It seems to me that this is just the atmosphere that ASM P. D. Ofile was looking for when he joined this type of troop and he cant wait until the SM retires. YIS Scoutdad

Hi all! Just finished second week of woodbadge and had no idea my topic was still under discussion. Yes this is a vacation for the SM. My perception is that for the scout back in Nov. -Dec. Philmont looked like a good idea, but I believe him when he said he gave a qualified yes depending on funds. One of the thing I came away from a woodbadge role playing exercise was when things are not going as you would expect with a youth, find out whats going on in their life before taking them to task. The time to address this was months ago when the first installment was due, or periodically when the crew would meet for planning and training Of course that assumes that this is a real crew with a youth leader and that they meet before leaving for Philmont. By the way, I asked my son and this scout if each would like to go if the other was going and the SM was not, and they both expressed interest in going. But the scout didnt sound all that excited, not enough for the kind of war that would start and I told him so. If he had been firmly interested in going the money problem could be solved. Thanks to you all for your advise. YIS Scoutdad

Thanks for your comments Barry. The one thorny issue left is the money. I took over being treasurer a few months back and began giving the kids complete reports showing all transactions. In the past all they saw was their balances. I think this scout thought that when he didnt come up with the $75 that he would be dropped from the crew. Unbeknownst to him money was being taken out of his account. His account is now $108 in the hole. I would like to clear this up rather than have this hanging over his head. What should be done? I tell these guys (my son, this scout and the other new scout) that a philmont trip could be an experience of a life time particularly with your best friends. But they are at that age where understand and expect to be involved in active planning and leadership (ownership) of such a trip, but to go with a self-center controlling adult would be a waste of a couple of hard earned summers work. YIS Scoutdad I think this scout stuff is pretty cool too!

Before we trash this scout lets know a little more about him. The scout in question is an extroverted kid with a big heart. Real good kid. The divorce hit him hard, didnt see it coming or at least acknowledge it. Being extroverted he craves being around other people and tries to please adults. His adult brother went on the last trek to philmont and I do believe he was interested in going in the beginning. The hard reality is that his parents will not help fund this trip. Years ago mom and dad had been heavily involved in troop. Mom even lead a white water trip to Colorado. Troop picture from that era shows dad with a beaming grin. I havent seen him smile in years. Neither of them participates in any way now, many times they dont show up for COH. So sad, something just died there. SM had been giving him a lot of attention and had been grooming him to be SPL. I dont think the kid wanted to disappoint the SM, but he couldnt just tell him. Now the SM is very angry with him. On the last campout he screamed at him and called him stupid for trying to start a damp wood campfire with charcoal lighter fluid. (note- I made sure they had a charcoal chimney for the campout, an adult brought the lighter fluid) I try to lookout for this kid but the SM is becoming borderline abusive to him. YIS scoutdad

Eagledad- Sorry for sounding a little legalistic with my plan, but problems arise out of poorly communicated expectations. For now with this adult leadership, clearly spelling out expectations would be helpful. As for the fund rasing, that is an important part of the trip and as I have outlined might be a good growing experience for the scouts in planning and saving. This is not the only scout to drop out. Another scout droped in Jan or Feb after dad paid the $75 in Dec. My son recruited his best friend into scouts in Jan. (he's 14 or 15) and the SM hit him up to go right away. He said yes but parents said no way. Some how this isn't getting through to the SM because he thinks this kid still is obigated too. My son was interested in being added on to the crew in Aug, but the SM wants to do a really difficult trek. My son has never backpacked and since his best friends have dropped out of the trek he lost interest. So all three of them are being scapgoated over this. Yis Scoutdad