ScoutBox

Had this conversation with some of my Troops other ASMs today while the boys were out on a 12k, land Nav course. and non of them every heard of it either. One was former USN, and Coast Guard Officer. But no one knew of it before Scouting.. all former Eagle Scouts..

I spent 10 years serving in the US Army and never heard "2" until I was involved in Scouting. It might be USAF, USN, or USMC. But NOT US Army. "Order Arms" is the command in the US Army to lower from the "Present Arms" position. Not "2". I understand why Scouting might not want too say Order Arms.. it has nothing to do with lowering the one Hand, but a Weapon. "Order... Arms!"...

I know a guy that was one of the Boy Staff members this past summer at my summer cap. He had just earned his Eagle just before that. Then when i got to my WB course week slater he was there. The next week after that he left for Uni. As for as I know he's studying and working his Ticket.

Nugent, I too am working on my first knot. The Scouter's Training Knot. My paper work was sent and received, so if I get it then it will be my first and only knot. And a good chance my last one for a long while. that is if I ever get put in for another one later on??

"Links to info on BAC's alternate uniform expereiment. what's available in BAC now http://www.baltimorebsa.org/OrgStore/store/default.asp?orgkey=749 What's coming up http://www.baltimorebsa.org/openrosters/DocDownload.asp?orgkey=749&id=76283 The adult uniform looks worse than the one we have IMHO. " Eagle I CAN INLY IMAGINE THAT THESE ARE MENT TO BE FIELD UNIFORMS. AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT I HOPE. LOOKS LIKE CRAP..

I think every one is in agreement here, and I understand what you guys are trying to get across, and I agree. Just wanted to clarify the pants mainly. Shirts are standard. Thanks everyone..

Vigil I see this often at adult stuff while in Scouting. That's the most often I see complete knots, patches etc.. being worn by friends who've been scouting for many, many years.. but when I see them at camp including the TAC Ex. he only wears a basic shirt. no knots etc.. in fact the only time I've seen him wearing his WB beads were at WB. Like you said ther is a place for all of that. But all the time.. it's up to the person.. I've got 5 shirts. I wear all I have on all 5 shirts. but it's not much to begin with.. no knots..

I would lie to add to the point of what is the uniform. When at Camp the daily uniform is set out. When I was Camp Staff this past Summer, we were given a Staff Polo with cap and Necker. So I wore that along with the standard Scout shirt daily. When at WB we wore Scout shirt daily except for twice when we wore our Class shirts for activities.. So the PLC or CD or Sm sets the uniform for an activity, meeting or event and that's the uniform. same everywhere else I've worked. In the Army it was the same. but 365 days a year. I saw a picture from the new Scout Camp /Jambo site and the Chief Scout Ex. was there wearing a suit??? not wearing a Scouters uniform..

I think that there are too many under educated kids going to collage. Need to improve the High School level of education I the States first. Too many kids sliding through high school getting into collage and wasting time and money.. Strange that my Collage education is spent doing high school studies instead of what I wanted to go to collage for in the first place. My wife " German" went through Gymnasium in Germany, which prepares students who are already working hard for university. Once in Uni. they are studying their major not High studies.. I wish I would have earned a better Trade myself, and not Uni. A uni. degree gets you a job at McDonalds I guess. but a Trade gets you a job doing something that pays..

AS for the military uniform. It is correct that if you don't wear all of your awards, ribbons, medals, and badges on your Class "A" uniform, then you are considered "Out of Uniform". Only exception I usually followed was that I didn't have but a few BDUs that I would wear only a few things on. Due to I knew what I did, and didn't need to show off. Like CIB, Master Parachutist Wings, Ranger Tab, Pathfinder, Air Assault blah, blah, blah.. I did wear Airborne wings while I was on Jump status, because it was a requirement. But field uniforms I almost never worn all the extras. Just Current Unit Patch, Name Tag, US Army Tag, and rank. It cost around 100. bucks to buy the uniform, and have everything sewn onto it. so I didn't bother. Now for scouting I find that what little I have I wear on my uniform. I only have a Language "French", and a Trained patch for the moment, and on a couple of shirts I have my WB Critter on them. I haven't been beaded yet, and I don't have any nots to wear. But if I ever do earn any then I'll wear them. Now I've seen some people with only half of their Knots and they have a full chest. Something too see. Does remind me of some General. Are these needed to be worn. Maybe for the person wearing them. But not for me. I say wear what you want too. Wear them all if all are a few, and some if you have too many. It's up to hope you want to be perceived by others. Sure others will either look at you like your some kind of Super Scout, or as a Scout General. Some badges I find are more important then others. Example if you were a Scout as a Boy, and earned Eagle, Arrow of Light, and like one of your ASMs the Honor Medal. These should be worn just to show the boys that you are and were a Scout and have achieved what they may be seeking to earn. But like Beavah added, Knots that were paid for . This I don't understand. WHo came up with that grand idea? I know that Craig Murry, who I found to be a very nice guy, and has a long experience with Scouting, has earned about everything one could earn as a Scout and Adult. But he shows it off a bit I find. Just have a look at his web site. Not saying he haven't done a great job Scouting, but showing it off like that. of dedicating a Web Site to just yourself like that??? Just do what feels right too you. Wear what you feel like wearing. and I'm sure you'll do all right. I find Scouting a bit like the Army sometimes. People wearing the uniform to show off. Well, one thing i and many of my buddies used to notice in the Army, and I'm sure that boys and adults notice it too in Scouting. They look at the person in the uniform, how the uniform looks on him or hear, and if that person really is out for Scouting or the Army. and not ones self. It's very obvious I the end.. Like wearing the Smoky the Bear hat in Scouting.. Uncomfortable hat, and makes the wearer look like a Drill Sgt. or a dunce..

I went to Youtube and found a video explaining how to do it.

Really. Then how is it possible for Fleece jacket with BSA stuff sewn on them used. I know my council and others have Fleece jackets with out CSP on the chest. WB Polos, and other WB T-shirts. Staff hats, and caps. There are non-BSA issued items worn all of the time through out the BSA and I've never heard anyone say that these were not to be worn. Don't mean to bring this to an argument, but there are a lot of people on this board who are Uniform NAZIs. Ready to pounce on any ideas about the uniform. I do wear the correct uniform every meeting etc.. but there are a lot of items that are not BSA tagged being worn. Belts, patches caps, jackets, etc.. you go to the Philmont Site "Tooth of Time" shop and they don't sell anything BSA tagged, except maybe a few patches. I have a hard enough time getting other adults, and boys in my Troop to wear part of the Uniform part of the time. And sadly with no support from the Committee and SM with this, it will never change. But to hear someone reply to a simple question like there's no other chose or possibility, and if your troop isn't in 100% full uniform then your not Scouting or something. Then these same people cry about how they don't like the new uniform, won't buy the new uniform, won't wear the new uniform. blah, blah, blah.. give me a break and get real. Sure I'd love to be part of a troop where uniform is enforce. and the boys wear it correctly. But my troop produces so great scouts, and they go on to become good people. And they managed to do it, with just a Scout shirt.. Now sorry for the Rant, but I've been on here long enough to read this in almost every post, and see topics being brought off topic because of these kinds of statements..

Anyone have a link for someone who still makes the full sized square neckers?

@Beavah, I've seen Venturers wearing all kinds of clothing. And I've seen them 110% uniformed. I also have a WB Staff member who wore a pair of Dark grey shorts from Jack Wolfskin. I also have a pair of their Dark Grey Trousers that are great. I wear in the field often other trouser to save on my Scout Pants that I can't get anymore. I also prefer to keep my scout trousers for meeting, and courses.

Do any of you were non BSA Brand uniform items? Like the trousers jackets etc.. I know that the shirts are harder to change up. But the trousers and other items are a bit easier. Example. I just got myself a good deal on Grey trouser and OD trousers from Cabelas. Could these work. I'm not a fan of the zip off BSA pants. They are big a baggy, and look like crap for CoH, and Staffing COurses. Don't look very pro. I have a couple pairs of the older BSA trouser which I love, and am always looking for more, but almost impossible to find in my 38x32 size. And I know the BSA makes a pair of Wool straight leg trousers for SMs. WHich like I said look better, but are pricey. Again I've found Dark OD Chinos wrinkle free for no money at Cabelas that look the same. But is this considered OK. Thanks SB

The problem is that TAC-BSA isn't as rich as many of the State side councils. But all of the food, is includes. Maybe it will cast less for the WB Staff. I'll find out when I go to my first Staff meeting this next year.

Here the staff pays the same price as the students.. And I believe it was over 300 bucks..

Well, after a quick call to Scoutstuff.org, I am more then pissed off. They first tell me that they lost my order. Or should I say that they posted it "now for the third time" to another address. And to make matters worst, The jackets were by mistake listed as on stock when they were first put up on the site, but will not arrive until mid December, just as you said. I cancelled my order, and will no longer order from them. I will continue to find items from other avenues. I do have a very good relationship with my Council Scout Shop, so I will continue to work with them. Firstly they are honest, and second I would rather support them then whoever is running the National Scout Shop. Although I'm sure the same people are getting a leg up anyway. I also sent a letter to the Chief of the section that handles order etc.. Mrs. Barbra Bailey, complaining about the situation. But I'm sure nothing will come of it.. I'm just a small person amongst over 2 million Scouts and Scouters.. So, I will try to find the OD Wool jac shirt from Bemidji Mills. But like I said before they don't ship over here, and 160.-- bucks is high for me right now. SB

Getting back to the OD Jac Shirt. On their site they have listed the first batch still on stock, and that's what I ordered. I will call them to see about the delay. I was told by my local Scout shop that the order they just made "and BTW they only learned of the new model due to mail advertisement" would arrive by the end of Dec. or Jan 2011. As for the Red Jac Shirt. I have one although it's the newer model that's not 100% wool, but it's a great light jacket. and it has keep me warm wearing it in the winter here in Europe. Just stands out so much.. But I like very much the Bemedji Woolen Mills model with the hand pockets. But they don't mail to Europe.

Good one on the Girl Scouts.. Although i don't agree with National having non American companies making the Scout Uniform. It's also National fault about the Quality of the Scout Uniform. If you want a better made uniform from China is can be done and is done every day. I would be from my experience with China and and several other countries within the clothing line, that the BSA pays very little per uniform shirt. I would even bet that the cost is around 400% marked up. That it probably only cost around 4-5 buck to make each shirt and ship it to the US. National could have the Chinese make a better uniform if it wanted too. Not a difficult thing too do. But they are getting by on the cheap. They are thinking that a boy uses a shirt for a max of 2 years afterwards he grows out of it. They it is passed on as a second hand shirt, and the BSA iron on over the pocket comes off in the wash. So it's pretty much no longer usable. This forces parents to go out a buy new uniforms which puts the money back into national instead of someone on e-bay. This goes to prove that the guy with the MBA running this at National is making the decisions and not Scouters. I myself think that a durable uniform that last forever would help Pack and Troops better then a throw away uniform like what's being made at the moment. And I can only assume that all of you feel the same. It can be passed down and reused again and again. I keep all of my sons trousers, which he seems to grow out of faster then the shirt. So I offer them to other boys in the Troop. This also gets other boys into a more complete uniform then what we already have. Mike B.

http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=NEW&C3=&C4=&LV=2&item=611024-9&prodid=611024-9^8^01RTL& I ordered myself one of these and love the OD color. Still waiting for it to arrive though. But was wondering if this is to become a uniform article or just another jacket they are selling on the side. And if it is a uniform article can we sew the OA Patch on the back?

Just got this sent to me today.. great idea. Wish my Council put his information on line like this. http://www.bacarrowhead.org/training.htm

Excellent point Eagle. I say complete the Tickets get beaded, and then try to make a difference by Staffing future courses. The problem with many course is the culture of Good'ld Boys running /ruining the show. One thing I like about WB at least here in TAC is that the Staff chance with every course. And people like myself still new to WB Staff the next course. In fact all of our TGs on next years course just went to WB. This means that in three years we will be leading the course. And another great thing about my Council is it's military rich. That means that people rotate out every three years.. so chances are that you will meet new people at every course of outing..

Is there a chance that some of you could fill out your account information. I'm interested in seeing who's talking, and what council they are from...

The law was laid down to us the first day. No BSing around with dolls etc.. no arguing no games no BS. Time was short and people were there to learn.. I liked that..