ScoutBox

Welcome Kaylosguy! I too am from Louisiana, Grant parish, and was a Scout in Montgomery back in the early 80's before things shut down in Grant Parish for Scouting. Anyway, I too am in the collecting arena, and am looking for the former patches for the council that covers Grant parish. I already have some Attakapa Council, but not sure what the new ones look like. I'd be interested. And I am looking for the new Louisiana Purchase CSP. I can trade you some TAC CSPs. We have several from over the years starting with the Red TAc ones, going to the Khaki ones with European flags, til the new ones. Let me know, but I'd like to see what you have. You can either contact me via FB, look for Michael Box or e-mail: mike.box@vtxmail.ch Later Mike B.

I've been collecting all of the Fieldbooks. I have all but the second to last edition. I love how they first started out almost like the Boy Handbook with much of the information similar to the Handbooks. And the information in the older ones are great! I saw where the ScoutShop has put the latest version from 2004 on sale. Does anyone know if they are developing a new version. YIS Mike B.

So this is the everyone who is someone in the BSA Knot then...

@Eagle, that sounds kool. I saw where this years Jambo Council patches were mixed a bit. problem I also see is that most of these custom patches won't fit a small scout shirt due tot eh shoulder pocket.. But I do like our units custom number patches. saved my troop 5$ for number patches..

Sherminator505.. were you with the 505th PIR?

I'm keeping my wool jac shirt, and am welcoming the new OD Jac Shirt. One reason is due to not showing up so much in the woods. I like to blend in, but the red jac shirt does look great. Anyway, when it comes to the numbers I was one Craig Murry's site this week and saw where some crew is using blue colors, and I know of a Crew over here in Europe using the Blk/Wht Sea Scout Numbers on the Venturing uniforms.. looks great.

I just got the same info JFL, seems that one is ahead of the other..

Just found out at a SM/ASM meeting Monday night that our new SM only on the job for 6 months is not only not coming to any outing this next year, but also will be ending is position as SM in June. He's a good guy, but i can't wait until he leaves, need someone at the top who's ready to do the job.

Well, I just got three former Eagle Scout adults involved in my Troop. Wonder if I can count that...

Funny, but I felt that my WB Course showed a really good Patrol Method experience. We acted and did everything as a Patrol. Only thing we didn't do that I can remember as a Normal Patrol would do is Vote for our Critter. That was assigned to us. But the rest I felt was good to go. Now maybe I'm wrong, but it didn't seem that way. BTW, We camped through out the whole one week course.

Scouters I have heard and seen it all before. After serving in the Army, and seeing those who went to jump school or other schools just to wear a badge. I myself also was jump qualifies, but I was also on Jump Status, went to Ranger school the works. But many did those things not for battlefield survival but for promotions.. You will always have a few with in any organization who is only in it for themselves. Sadly, it's the boys who suffer. I have no problem with these people around. As long as I know who they are, then I can get on with doing what important, and avoid them. I plan to get my beads this next year once my ticket is finished, as for wearing my beads sure i will, I've earned them. But I also plan to attend several courses that I can't or there aren't awards to wear. In fact I'm not a Commissioner, but I went to the course, same as other courses I've attended, I can't wear the patches etc. but I'm not in it for that anyway. I think those adults who are should think twice about being here in the first place. I find many who serve in Scouting for the awards, missed out on serving int eh military, or didn't serve due to other reasons. But Scouting is a way for them to wear a uniform etc.. Anyway, it's for the boys, and if people who attended course want to wear patches beads knots etc.. go for it. But if you have all of that stuff, and your Troop, Pack, Den or crew isn't running the way it should then you probably not in the right field..

@Basementdweller: I still feel for your experience. I had the time of my life, and recommend the course to every Adult in Scouting. I think you got the wrong end of the draw, and maybe attended the course in a Council full of people just as you say above. If I might ask, what council are you involved in. That way I will try to avoid the place. BTW, have you finished your ticket? @AvidSM: I have to agree with your comments. Again WB has been an excellent experience for me, and I can't wait to Staff the next years course. I think that in 3-4 years I could very well be the Course Director one year. And I would do it in a minute. Lucky thing about my Council is that the Adult turnover is every three years. So positions open all of the time, and faces change.

Sorry to get off of the Sleeping Bag subject, but since we are talking about used kit. I have though about buying some of the used two man tents from Philmont Scout Ranch. Anyone have any experience doing this?

I would love to know more about the Cub Method. Would help me do a better job when I get the younger boys coming from the Dens. As for why , who, or whatever. I posted the above information that was given to me from a Scouter who has been involved for a lot longer then myself. and will be on the Staff with me the next year's WB course.

Eagle 732 I know what you mean. I was brought up in a simmular Troop in Louisiana. My dad formed the Troop and got donations from everyone to buy us all uniforms. And rented a Lodge for us. We had NO KIT. And I mean none. I remember having only a surplus US Army wool blanket to use camping. I'm not saying to buy something more expensive. In fact I am now in a Troop with mostly well off kids. So other side of the tracks from myself even. I think that a Troop that can do what yours does is better for the boys then one I'm with. We supply all of the Patrol kit, and tents for the Troop. And no fundraising is done. But I'm hoping to correct this problem. I am also the QM for the Troop. Anyway, I think that people should use what they can get. I at the moment am unemployed, and the kit I have I have to make due with. If the boys aren't hiking the kit around, then heavy Surplus bags work. I wish I had a place to get Surplus US Army bags over here. Switzerland: Anyway, I was just trying to help educate, and not come across negative. Sorry if I did come across badly. Wasn't my intent. YIS MikeB.

I just gave them a call and Jean at the Tooth of Time Traders helped me out. Vera nice, and they have won a customer..

If I could just point out a few things about the US Army system: First my back ground, Former US Army Airborne Ranger, 10 years active service.. Worked and managed an Outdoor Adventure Store selling outdoor equipment also for ten years. Avid Outdoor camper, BSA, And outdoor instructor. and in the outdoors over 30 days sleeping a year. outside of the BSA. Now, the bags. I have used the old military feather systems while serving.= SUCK! Never been more cold.. Have also used the newer Black and OD with G-Tex Woodland Cover sacks. Better, but very heavy.. And have tested the newer Foliage 3 layer Army system, light weight, but expensive. What I use after all of these years is a European system with the same design, and lighter weight, more compact, and very warm. The system you use depends on more then winter and summer. You have to also think humidity and climate. Example. In Central Europe where I live, Swiss Alps. It's very humid. So I don't use down. Yes it's nice and light weight, but it also looses up to 30% of it's ability to keep you warm when it's wet. So I use synthetic bags. If I lived in a dryer climate, then I would use Down. or a mix of down and synthetic. Example: The brand I use sold their Extreme Cold Weather System ECC bags to the Indian Army. Now what many people don't realize is that most of the Indian Army is stationed on the northern border in the Hymalayas. Very dry climate. But due to that they're also using their bags south where it's also humid along the rivers and valleys, in mixed climates. They use a 1000 gram down inner bag, and a 1000 gram outer synthetic bag together at -50C. These bags are made for it. So to get the best out of a system it depends on the climate your using it in. If you use your bags in Philmont and Washington State then a dual system would be better. How it works. The Synthetic outer bag absorbs the humidity from the inner down bag and allowing the inner bag to stay dryer. evacuating the humidity to the outside. The dual synthetic bags does the same thing. I use my summer bag inside and winter bag outside giving me a -40C comfort rating. The company i use makes bags for most of the European Militaries, and many US military people also use them because they cost less, roomy inside, and are compact. The company I use is Carnithia Sleeping Bags from Austria. You can google them to find their site. Their military bags are cheaper then their civilian line due to colors. OD Sells more due to the price is lower then the blues and reds. Works for me. I'm sleeping in the bags, not hunting in them. Anyway, you can also do the same thing by just putting two bags together. I've done this before in the military due to a very cold Winter one year. I was an NCO in the field at Bragg when the temp dropped well below freezing. We only got one 5 ton to come to the range, so we loaded it up with our soldiers, and the NCOs stayed the night. I keep the bag of one of my men to double up my bag. We went off line, built a fire, and called it a night. Was a tight fit because the bags were the same size. but I stayed very warm and was very happy the next day. This was 1995, so I stayed with my discovery. So Get yourselves a summer bag and a winter bag and just put them together. Now G-Tex bivy bags: Unless your sleeping under the stars, then you don't really need to use them. I have used them under the stars and they work great. But are heavy and very expensive. I went another route, and bought a bag from a company that makes tents. I can use this bag as a bivy cover or long jacket. works great. very light weight, and half the price of a g-tex bag. breaths like g-tex too. never been wet in it, and it's 1/3d the size when folded of a g-tex bag. and lighter in weight. Hilleberg make that piece of great kit. Another thing I never do, and that is wash a bag. And I camp over 30 days a year. I turn them inside out, and let them sit in the sun for a couple of hours. That does the trick. I also store them in a large pillow case folded not rolled. This keeps them lofty, and doesn't allow the material inside to crease. You wash a bag the temp rating goes down hill each washing from 10-15% the first wash. Again i have been using my bags for 5 years now. Still going strong. And never wash a down bag. you might as well throw it in the trash afterwards. looses 30% first washing. Now one last bit of information. When buying a bag pay a attention to the material inside. If you need a synthetic bag then check if the brand makes it's own material. Most bag companies buy their synthetic material from other companies. They compress the filling into sheets using glues. They ship it in boxes. The company gets the sheet of filling, and then adds a chemical to un-compress it. They material looses it's ability to keep you warm due to this act. But the information you get it from the filling before this is done. So find companies that produce this filling themselves. I know that Mammuth/Ajungulak "Same company now" makes their own fillings, but not sure about US companies. but beware. Please don't take me as a jerk by saying all of this. Just trying to give good advice about something I know about to good people who have given advice too me. YIS ScoutBox

I have been talking to a few older Scouters in my Council, and several attended both the new and older WB Courses. Here's a reply to my question to one about the difference of both Courses. (Its different; yet it's the same. It's like asking a parent to say which of two children is better than the other. There are folks that are so tied to the older courses (syllabus has changed more than once) that they can't accept change. I like some elements of the older course better (but there are excellent reasons why they could not be retained). And there are some elements of 21SCWB that i dislike, but I recognize and accept the need for change, 1) adult leaders did not stay around long enough to go to the old woodbadge; (there was a 2 year tenure requirement); leaders weren't even staying registered for 2 years. 2) there was essentially no course for CS leaders (not even CSTWB met that need). Some councils created pilot programs for venturing WB but there was no consistency in course content. 3) The older courses were labor intensive (patrol cooking) and outdoor intensive - so we were essentially eliminating those who were less outdoor prone from participating, and we were taking too much time in teaching outdoor skills rather than leadership skills. Both are needed, but there are other venues for the outdoor piece. 4) The old course was almost 8 days - which was is difficult to schedule for busy leaders - vice 6 dasu for 21CWB. 5) The new course tries to bridge three programs; it does poorly with CS (it's really only cosmetic), but well with Venture and BS 6) The new course practices what it preaches with involvement of a venture crew; proves that adult leaders can rely on youth leaders and participation in training. 7) the new course cab be conducted in an indoor environment (not to my choosing) but it opens the trainingto a lot more volunteers. 8) the ticket's not the same but the purpose is. 9) the game of life poses a danger if not carefully controlled. It's new to 21CWB. It's a good teachihg point but has risks that must be anticiapted and avoided. Overall, WB needed change. Change brings likes and dislikes based on personal bias. I accept the change and endorse the need for it. It does little good to bemoan the loss of the old course. We make 21CWB work )

I got a reply back that they can't ship to me in Europe. Man that was upsetting... I am reading and watching everything I can find about Philmont at the moment. Getting ready to hopefully go this summer as a day trip, and then next year for a course. and hopefully in three years as a Crew Advisor.. BTW. If anyone else knows how I can get this film on DVD please let me know..

Merci Beaveh. I'll bring this up at the meeting. But a 4th person really doesn't help with getting the BORs done. But getting the older boys more involved does. Thanks,

T24 and E92, first thanks for your responses. I guess though and sorry for asking again, but an older boy from the troop can or can't sit in on the BOR? Reason why I'm asking this is because we are FINALLY having, for the first time this year, and meeting with the SM and ASMs and the SPL. Thanks, ScoutBox

Eagle, Very good point, and one I was wanting to use. Does National allow youths to sit on the BOR's.. If so then I believe that this would be a great or better way of holding BORs..

Wow. Beaveh! That's a damn good way of putting it. I have ben back in Scouting for the past 15 months. Since my son joined. We as adults want to see our boys, and girls grow, learn, and make good. We advice them to keep learning, and studying. We give them the tools to do what they need to become good citizens, men, and women.. adults.. But many adults I know are in the mind set that they are good enough, and good enough is just that.. I don't want people like this around not only my son, but all of the boys, including myself. Hell, when I was serving in the US Army, and after a lot of the training I went through, Infantry, Airborne, Ranger, etc. etc. schools and just stopped training, and advancing in education and getting all I could from the military, then I might not have mad it as far as to have fathered my son, and daughter.. How can i ask Scouts to keep on truck'en when I wouldn't. I have had a lot of time on my hands this last year, unemployed.. so I got to training. Did all of the basic training as a Scouter serving in a Troop ASM position. I also went to Wood Badge. I loved the experience. I put a lot into it, and got a lot out of it. I learned a lot that the Army didn't teach me. And I will keep on learning, and training. I have a lot of people around me in the Troop who are letting the boys down as I can see it. In fact we had out CoH last night, and a large % of the new Scouts who were ready to advance to Tenderfoot didn't get their BOR two weeks ago due to adults, Not the boys. Adults.. The worst part of Scouting I think sometimes.. they hover around with a title, and don't want to do the work required.. These people are worst then not having enough adults to help. I'd rather do it all myself then depend on some of these people. I plan to keep working and learning, and doing what comes natural to me as a leader. I show up and help.. I plan to attend PTC in 2012 if I can. I want to learn more so I can help the Scout better. I want to do more for them. So doing the basic and then claiming that your good enough is a crock. Not everyone can do more, but the ones who can should. Because if your not there to help the boys, then you should think twice about helping yourself.. And as for which Wood Badge is the best??? I didn't attended WB 20 years ago, I couldn't. But I do know a lot about the outdoors, enough to teach it for money in fact. So I can only guess that I have what it takes to tie knots, and make some of the increadable works of Lashing art I've seen. And camp and what all was done in the early days. I think that the early WB is more for those adults who don't know anything about the outdoors. Today, many people who are involved in the BSA that I've been around know a lot about the outdoors, and they got a lot from the present WB21. But as an adult you owe it to the boys and girls to make sure that you not only know everything to do with the outdoors, but can do it in your sleep. So get out and learn.. If you don't like the new WB, then take a course in Outdoor Woodlore. Talk about learn a lot. You will. And you'll have a great time.

Mn_scout.. it's hell getting the older boys top break free of their weekends to go out..

Sorry Nut. I was referring to the 100th Anni. Award.. I didn't see the online form.. Box