runintherain

I asked a question on this message board and when I got a couple of responses that this is not considered a big deal and was directly asked what I would do, I responded that I would keep an eye open and see if this kind of thing is a regular occurence and council my son not to accept a ride alone with a scouter. I also said that if this is normal behavior, I would discuss it with the CC and consider moving to another troop. How is that throwing anyone under a bus? I think you need to relax a little. I am not a paranoid parent. Every parent was requested to take YPT and I did that. We learned in that training that there was not supposed to be one on one contact. You can disagree with this being one one one contact and I would listen to your point of view with courtey, but labeling me as paranoid and throwing someone under the bus is just ridiculous. And saying that I need to ready to be Scoutmaster id really not the point. What if I saw him take a kid into his tent? Should I not be concerned about that or report that unless I am ready to be scoutmaster?

Evmori, I am planning to keep my eyes open to how this troop does things and to tell my son that he should never drive alone with an adult other than his parent. If I see this going on again, I will mention it to the Committee Chair.

Our troop had a camp out this weekend that was about 2.5 hours away from our chartered organization. I did not go on the camp out, but when waiting for my scout to arrive back home I saw the scoutmaster and a scout pull up alone in the scoutmaster's car. Now, they were immediately followed by another car and I know that the scout's parents and the scoutmaster are very good friends. However, I still believe that to be against the rules of youth protection. Is that the case?

Basement, have you talked to the SM about this? We have had several similar discussions about advancements in our troop. I had a big disagreement with another ASM in our troop about the 10 requirements for 1st Class. We took it to the SM and let him decide. Of course, I was happy because he sided with me. There are many advancements that are open to a lot of interpretation. The putting up a tent requirement is not one of those, in my opinion. In a life and death scenario when a scout needs a shelter, he needs to be able to put up a tent by himself. I am curious how long you have been in this troop. I know it is hard to walk away if you have been there a long time, but if it has not been a long time you may want to just find another troop. The standards for advancement are very important and it sounds like this troop does not have any. Maybe you can work on developing some standards with the SM and not make it personal about this boy, but at the same time get your message across and solve the problem.

Our troop reviews all merit badge earned anywhere, even summer camp. All the MBC's show up for 2 or 3 Saturdays and have 30 minute blocks of time the scout must register for. The requirements are reviewed by the troop MBC. This has caused quite a division in our troop. Some feel that it is adding to the requirements, by making the kids meet with a second MBC, since the summer camp classes are taught by a MBC. Others feel that the summer camp is not doing an adequate job of ensuring that the requirements are met. My understanding is that it has been taken to Council and that they approved these extra sessions, but I did hear that some want to take it to national now that the Council said it was okay. I know this sounds like I am a politician, but I can really see both sides of the argument. My son attended a Reptile and Amphibian Merit Badge class at a local nature center, but their was no blue card or form given. He just learned a lot and is now meeting with the District Advancement Chair to actually talk about the Merit Badge and show his work and knowledge. I am the only MB Counselor for that MB in our troop and this troop strongly encourages a scout does not get counseled by a parent. Again, some in the troop say there is nothing wrong with it.

I have recently had to talk to my wife about her obsession with our kids earning Eagle. Her Uncle is an Eagle and she thought it was the most important thing in scouting. Tonight I think we finally had a breakthrough. On Wednesday nights our Troop has an opportunity to give back to our CO by doing some clean up at a supper. Tonight, my two sons in the troop and another set of brothers were the only ones that showed up. For the third week in a row. This is a troop of 55 kids. However, 2 other scouts were there tonight for MB Counseling. They both left after their sessions and did not help with the cleanup. So, who is getting more out of Scouting? Scouting to me is too often treated as what you can get out of it, instead of what you can put into it. Perhaps that is part of the reason we have more Eagles. In our hyper-competitive society it is seen as all there is to scouting. I would much rather my kids earn the Hornaday Awards or all of the new National Outdoor Badges. But, that is up to them.

I am pretty happy with how our troop does merit badges. The boys are not allowed to do anything merit badge related during the meetings from 7:30 to 9:00, with two exceptions. They are allowed to turn in a completed merit badge before 8:15PM. Also, before 8:15PM they are allowed to request a blue card. We do occasionally offer a Merit Badge taught as a class, but only on non meeting days. I was very impressed to sit in on a Cycling MB class a few weeks ago. It was a 4 hour class and not one thing was signed off on in those 4 hours. It was taught and then the boys were advised to get a MC Counselor and show them the skills they learned. Of course, we were the MC counselors teaching the class. We even had enough to sit 1 on 1 with a scout and instruct them on how to change a flat tire. We sat by their side and gave advice and corrections. The boys were then told that they should go home and practice and show their MC counselor that they can do it without any advice. The only question I have about it, is it okay to take them on group rides. The MB specifically says the scout should plan the rides. Does that mean if I have 4 kids going for the MB we have to go on 20 rides for each to plan 5? When I first joined the troop I did not understand the process, but now I can see the difference in the older scouts who are entirely self sufficient and it is fun to watch.

lovethescouts, Boy Scout rank has nothing to do with age or height. Tenderfoot has many requirements that need to be satisfied. It is not just handed over to someone because they say they are a scout or have facial hair at 10 years old. As stated previously, it requires at least 30 days but will probably take somewhere around 3 to 4 months for an active scout to achieve. The scout would have to have all these advancements signed off and then have a SM Conference and a Board of Review. I agree with what many on here have said, about you taking a step back and let your son shine. However, this is a case where I would not recommend that. There is obviously a problem with this troop's organization or approach to Boy Scouts. I think you deserve to have those questions answered on how someone achieves tenderfoot without doing anything. You want to make sure your son is part of a program where things are earned, not given. That is only a dis-service to the scout who received a rank he did not earn and I would not want to be part of a troop that hands out rank advancement just for being tall. Especially if my kid was short. Please remember that age and height have nothing to do with it. In the last month we have had a 4'8' ten year old earn the rank (He came over at 10 years 6 months after earning his AOL) and a 5'6" 14 year old (He is a very active scout that knows his stuff but rank was not important to him until he realized his younger brother would soon be a tenderfoot) earn the rank. I would suggest you read your son's scout book to help him along the way and make sure this troop is doing things by the book.

Tenderfoot takes a minimum of 30 days to complete, so if your son and this boy just crossed over than it would be impossible for him to earn Tenderfoot at the crossover. If someone at the troop level does not quickly realize they have a brand new scout that just crossed over as a tenderfoot, you may want to look for another troop. The SM and ASM should know the kids and the rules well enough to immediately correct this mistake. That would be my biggest concern at this point, if all the facts you have stated are correct. Our Troop does a crossover ceremony for incoming Cub Scouts that have earned the AOL. The AOL presentation is the first part and then we have a crossover ceremony to accept them into the troop. As soon as the boys cross the bridge they get their Boy Scout neckerchief and epaulets. They then go off with the older scouts and are taught the scout requirements and are tested on the scout requirements. We then have cobbler and award the boys their Scout badge. Are you sure you are not confusing tenderfoot and scout?

Thank You, ScoutNut. I had done a lot of searching, but the resources you came up with are better than what I found.

I am also wary of the power a CO has over a troop/pack. I have seen it be destructive in 2 cases now.(This message has been edited by runintherain)

The scouts that go to school in one particular town that we pull from have a 5th grade program. They are able to get it signed off on by bringing their certificate. The rest of the county no longer does it, as they have had budget cuts. They also cut the Police Explorer program in our town. The local PD is willing to let me copy the notebook that they teach it from, so that may be our only option. I was curious what other troops have run into with this.

The Second Class Requirement 9a is one that a number of our scouts are having difficulty getting signed off on. I have spent the better part of the morning calling the local PD and some well known programs that they teach. The PD department says they have had budget cuts and would not be able to help. We have several home schooled scouts and several that joined as older scouts. The schools in our area teach this in the 5th grade. I contacted D.A.R.E but they will only sell their program to Police Officers. Does anyone have any suggestions of a program they have done in Scouting to teach the kids these valuable lessons and help them advance in rank?

I was not a Scout as a kid, but I was a kid. Almost every year in Elementary School and Middle School I came in first in my grade on every event on the Presidential Physical Fitness. Except for pullups. I never did more than 2 until I was in my 20's. We are all made different and not every kid that cannot do pull ups is a couch potato. The real method for improving on pull ups is to lift weights. I do not believe that 11 year old boys should be lifting weights to the extent that it would take to improve on pull ups. In youth sports, I see kids pushed beyond their limits all the time and every time I see a 13 year old with a torn meniscus or a 14 year old with a full rotator cuff tear I cringe. These injuries were unheard of when I was a youth. Of course, we were also outside playing all the time. Our troop gives incremental credit on the pull ups. I even had a kid that did 2 to start and we gave him credit for 2 1/2 after 30 days. The scout did a 1:28 400 meter run at 10 years old. He did 30 push ups and looked like he could have done sit ups all day long. He improved from a 5'0 standing long jump to 5'6". I did ask him what he had done to practice pull ups and he said that he had gone to the school with his older brother and had him hold his ankles just like the book says. The point is that the kid was obviously fit and learned how to become more fit. So, we signed him off. This is one advancement requirement where I think judgement should be strongly used.

Thanks, for the responses. Now the real tricky question I should have asked earlier. Is there any BSA documentation to support allowing someone who has not earned their Firem'n Chit to fuse a rope. I agree with you all. However, we had some ASMs who saw it the other way and were a little irate about it. One ASM was the father of the kid trying to get that requirement signed off. He is also the District Executive. Honestly, I was worried they were going to have ago at each other over it. Would like to address it at our next adult leaders meeting.