Rooster7

I seriously doubt that. And I'll bet you dollars to donuts, no one is going to make a ridiculous movie about his life or his presidency while he's still in office.

On January 21, all the ills and woes of the country will become Obama's and the Democrat's and the neo-conservatives in the Republican party can go back to complaining on talk radio and playing the victim of a liberal socialist government. I can't imagine what could make them happier. I can think of one thing that will make them happiernot actually being a victim of a liberal socialist government. Lets hope he focuses on the war and the economy. If he does that and doesnt screw up anything else, Ill happy.

Scoutldr, I'll remember that next time I go through an airport. I dont know how much, if any, that we disagreeand I dont want to go on a hunt for a nit to pickbut just to be clear: I think there is a colossal difference between a) relenting to searches by your own government, and experiencing a travel delay associated with the same, in order to ensure public safety of a momentous nature (i.e. exploding planes and the like), and b) being forced by a foreign power to give up ones faith and/or allowing them to dictate what you should believe and how you should behave. Lisa, Regarding Bushs conservatism, your assessment of him may be more accurate then I care to believe. Still, my defense of him is mostly in regard to the war effort. Theres plenty of conjecture from the Left about how and why Bush made decisions as President and ultimately about who he is (as man of character), but few facts to back up that conjecture. I believe he has defended our countrys interests and his motivation is derived from his patriotism and faith. Others believe differently. Until I see some real evidencesomething concretesomething other than an ideologue spouting all sorts of non-sense while salivating over an upcoming election - Im likely to continue to believe that hes a good man. Perhaps Im nave. Perhaps Im fair-minded. History, hopefully, will show us one way or the other. Regardless, I think theres way too much talk about Bush without thought being evident by those who chose to hate him. Their motivation is plain to see.

Which is a chilling thought in a supposedly free, Democratic and open republic. Not quite a bumper sticker, but it might as well be. Do you think our government had no secrets during WWII? Do you think the war on terrorism deserves to be treated with less gravity? Freedom is what were fighting to defend. But this is the real world. If our government offers everything it knows for public consumption and political debate, they will surely aid our enemies. There comes a time when you have to trust your leaders. No one pounded on the Whitehouse door demanding answers during WWIIor if they did, they were largely ignored as fools. I trust that the proper people (Congressional committees and others) are advised of what they need to know. If a President ever acts improperly, then Congress should respond accordingly. But if/when they do, they better be damn sure theyre motivated by patriotism to this country and devotion to its laws, and not their ideology.

minus the USSR as a superpower Scoutldr, I was referencing the days when America was preoccupied with the Russianswhen our government and the average American understood the USSR as a clear and present danger. Now that they have disbanded, it appears that manyperhaps most Americans, are under the impression that as long as we keep to ourselves that world peace will prevail. I think thats a comforting thought, but a very dangerous presumption. As for the Russians military capability, I understand they still have the potential to create many serious problems for us and the rest of the world. But I do not view them as the most imminent threat to our national security. They may or may not have designs on American controlled resources and interests. I cant say. Regardless, I dont think it matters one iota to them if we (American citizens) embrace our freedoms and conduct our lives per our religious beliefs (predominately as Christians per recent polls). Yet there are new rogue powers at work today that very much resent our ability to practice our freedoms, and especially those religious freedoms. I dont think its wise to pretend that they dont exist or that they will be complacent if we ignore them. Nor do I think its morally acceptable to let them murder and torture so long as the numbers are low (i.e. live with the occasional terrorist act until the numbers grow intolerable). Apparently Israel feels the same way. And it should go with saying, we should never sacrifice any of our freedoms to achieve some sort of peace with our would-be oppressors. SctDad said: There is more than what everyone knows about the war. Im confident that is a true statement. Its a consideration that many, especially the major broadcast media outlets, do not take into account when they chose to criticize a sitting President. This is especially noticeable when times are bad and the current politically empowered party is not desired by those making commentary. Certainly both liberals and conservatives are guilty of this. However, its clear to me that without radio, conservative opinions would be drowned out by the overwhelmingly liberal-controlled television and print outlets. mmhardy said: The countdown is to the "End of an Error" Nice bumper sticker. But this is the kind of thoughtless rebuttal that I expect from many of the Bush haters. Dont think through the issue. Dont offer a lucid argument. Never consider the possibility that Bush might not be the man you think he is. Yeah Im guilty of being conservative in my thought but at least Im willing to defend its ideals. If youre so lazy that all you can offer is a bumper sticker, then please refrain and spare those of us who are prepared to listen to reason.

Yes, but a countdown to what? I have my criticisms of the President - not the same ones that others may have - but there are some things I wish he had done or didn't do. Mostly in regard to how he could have openly dealt with the Democrats and the media. I wish he was more Reagan-ish in his responses to them. Perhaps I just wish he was Reagan. That said; he has my trust and admiration as our President during these very difficult times. I am hoping the best for our next President. Still, I cannot say that I am anxious to see this clock tick down. I'm seriously afraid that Mr. Obama intends to gallop into 2009 with a 1960's worldview minus the USSR as a superpower. We cannot simply decree the world a better place and expect the rest of the world to sing cumbaya with us. We'll see...perhaps President Obama will surprise me. As for those happy to see Bush leave office, it will be interesting to see if you feel the same way in a few years. At that time, I truly hope that you can fittingly thumb your nose at me and declare Obama as one of the best Presidents ever. However, I tend to believe that you will be slandering Bush all the more in order to make Obama look like a better option. If that becomes true, I pray for us all. That would probably be a reflection of times much worse then these, and a President who did not handle them well. In fact, perhaps we should start those prayers today.

I agree with most postings here, but I'd like to hear the facts of this particular case. It is possible that the injured woman in the car asked her rescuer to cease her efforts. Perhaps the victim was aware that there was a spinal injury and felt the car was secure. If that was the case, how would you feel about your "friend" yanking you out of the car then? Some good Samaritans aren't all that good...and sometimes a would-be-rescuer is just someone looking for a spotlight. Just saying...without the facts, it's a little hard to judge this case fairly.

My point is (and was) - just about anything can be seen in nature, and thus anything can be labeled as natural. Consequently, if you ignore the customary connotation of the word (i.e. normal and acceptable), its use as a decriptive term is useless.

Merlyn, Well, Rooster7, does this mean you will no longer describe homosexuality/homosexual desires as 'unnatural,' as you have in the past? Occurring in nature is a clear refutation of 'unnatural.' Of course, that something is natural says nothing about whether such behavior is good, bad, or indifferent. But it ought to stop the red herring of 'unnatural' being thrown around. But it never seems to I disagree. Merlyn since you dont believe in God, I dont envision any of my arguments resonating with you. But God created man in His image. I believe that we possess a moral capacity that does not exist in the animal kingdom. If the definition of natural is a propensity to commit an act then any act could be labeled natural. Certainly, over the span of history, humans have given into every twisted desire imaginable, including incest, rape, torture, murder, and the like. But I dont see those behaviors as the fulfillment of a natural tendency. Its a perversion of what God intended for us. And as moral beings, I think we know when were committing such a perverted act. In fact, you should flip your question and ask yourself - why do people use the red herring of its natural to defend their behavior? Why do gay advocates use it in an argument to defend homosexuality? After all, if everything is natural per the animal kingdom including rape, incest, and eating ones poop, then why emphasize the behavior IS natural? The word has no meaning or power. Only when humans recognize themselves as created beings with a moral and intellectual capacity that is above the animal kingdom does the phase natural behavior have meaning and power. Else its just a ruse to justify oneself and/or others whove entertained and given themselves over to perversity, a.k.a. unnatural desires. Trevorum, Rooster, like it or not, you are 98.8% identical to a chimpanzee. Well then, I guess that other 1.2% must be pretty important.

One of the primary arguments against Homosexuality tends to sound something like, "its unnatural" or "it doesnt occur in nature" and if there are Gay Penguins, then Homosexuality isn't unnatural, Homosexuality does occur in nature and Homosexuality is not a personal choice but a born, natural orientation. Okay. So if animals have incestial relations or eat their own poop, then we should celebrate and encourage people who imitate these natural behaviors as well? What about the dolphins that commit gang rape? Should we be releasing those gang bangers that were so unjustly imprisoned for fulfilling their natural desires? Please. Lets stop comparing animals to humans. And if you insist, please qualify the argument by limiting the human comparisons to your friends and family and leave the rest of us out of it.

"The 60's seemed rather innocent before that and never quite the same after JFK was gunned down..." I understand entirely what you're saying here...I was the same age and had similar memories (but different taste in TV viewing I leaned towards Captain Kangaroo and Bozo the Clown). But your statement begs the question: As a 5-year old, could the 60's have been anything but innocent? In 30 or 40 years, I suspect many middle-aged men will be exchanging comparable thoughts on 9-11.

Vicki, Your historical presumptions may be accurate. I dont know. But heres the rub: I dont view any part of the Gospel as being tailored to a particular generation. Moreover, I see Gods Word as being relative to the ongoing spiritual battle that all of us must endure, rather than the specific circumstances that a Biblical authors contemporaries may have encountered. Lastly, when I read Jesus words, I view them as His words, not the words of the author. But thats not necessarily a huge point for me, because I view the entire Bible as Gods Word.

And if you're voting for Obama, be sure to be there bright and early Wednesday morning! ;-)

Vicki, Okay for the time being, Ill assume it to be paranoia on my part. So applying Jesus words to this generation, who is he speaking to in Matthew 10? Are these verses not applicable today? Is it enough to embrace Jesus teaching on love...even if one refuses to see a need for a savior?

First of all I think you really should go see the movie W, it is actually a well done movie and provides some great insight into the man you so admire. Ive seen enough to know that the movie cannot be taken seriously. The war we have been fighting the last seven years was a self indulgent farce based on false intel that has backfired on the man and will leave him branded in history as one of the worst presidents of our country. Im not going to go round and round with you about what facts were truly facts and how they were or were not presented to the public. Long story short we are on opposite sides of the issue and thats probably not ever going to change. You tell the families of over 4,000 dead soldiers that Bush was right and that their families sacrifice was necessary to keep our country safe. Was every American conflict wrong? If you believe that, then I will not be able to provide a satisfactory response to you. If you believe WWII and other wars were worth fighting, then while my heart goes out to those families, this statistic is not overwhelming. In fact, compare to other conflicts, it is a low number. Rooster as a supposed man of God I suppose you are aware of the scripture "Vengence is mine sayeth the Lord.", Iraq was a ill planned offensive that has allowed our true enemies to gain new allies and territory in the jihad against our country. I dont see it that way. I see it as a necessary war which was inevitable (given Islamic militant hatred for infidels), their obsessed focus on defeating Israel and America (i.e. The Great Satan), and how they envision the world under Islamic rule. It is time for our country to have a leader that thinks things out logically, considering all alternatives before acting instead of one who acts rashly and emotionally like we have experienced over the last eight years. I dont think thats how it was but obviously, you do. McCain lost this election It ain't over yet, my friend ;-) not because he was not an honorable man but because he listened to bad advisors who tried to make him something he was not and forcing him to select a running mate that caused him to lose credibility with the American public. I will enjoy that victory drink tomorrow night Rooster. Cheers! I hope you do enjoy the drink, but not the reason behind it. I see Obama as a man with much magnetism but with no real substance.

Vicki, How or why you managed to inject race and politics into my last post is curious at best. I thought we (you and I that is) were discussing Jesus and the words He used to draw folks into His Kingdom. Don't know how to respond to someones reasoned argument? Frustrated? Its simplemake innuendoes that impugn your opposition with the likes of racial bigotry. Nice. Dont know why Im surprised. This has been the liberal philosophy in American politics for the last 40 yearsI shouldnt be shocked when their supporters and followers adopt the same tactics.

BadenP, First, lighten up...try to develop a sense of humor. Second, I think American football is a little more complicated then you suggest. If not, you should consider it as a career. I hear NFL coaches are making millions of dollars these days with their 6th grade educations. Lastly, I know that many liberals dont care or understandThey dont care or understand that weve been fighting a war for the last seven yearsThey dont care or understand that fighting a war is a huge sacrifice in both terms of blood and moneyThey dont care or understand that bashing their own President during times like these is not helpfulThey just want their guy in office. I get it. So tomorrow night, after the results are known go out and have a drink. But whether that drink be celebratory or conciliatory, please give it a rest. Lest you spend the next four years gloating or whining its not going to change the outcome. I thought you guys would have learned that after the 2000 election. Insert big smiley face here. Okay, youre rightI wasnt really trying to be funny this time.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

Reagan got the same song and dance when he ran for President. He (or rather we) did pretty good in the 80s. Obama's plan is to redistribute wealth - not pay off our debts. Higher taxes will bring our economy to a grinding halt, throwing this country backwards for many years. The federal government shouldn't attempt to take care of the poor by making more folks poor. There is a very large middle-class in this country and higher taxes will help to bring them down to the point where they'll need federal help. It makes more sense to let those folks keep their money, feed their own families, and help the economy grow.

Eamonn, But just as I don't understand American Football, I don't understand the Republican (Right Wing) doctrine. That's very understandable. American football is a very complicated sport, which involves a team of incredibly talented and dedicated individuals working in unison for a common and noble goal. For those same reasons, I can understand why liberals dont understand the Republican doctrine. So dont blame yourself. ;-)

Vicki, Rooster, you are completely and utterly convinced of your "rightness." Im not completely and utterly convinced of my rightness. I am completely and utterly convinced that the God of the Bible is real. It is his rightness that I embraceI dont own it. Fortunately extremists, by definition, will always be in the minority and they will be comfortable there because feeling embattled is part of how they define themselves. At one time, those who fought against slavery were considered extremists. I dont think they did so because they wanted to feel embattled. They simply fought for what they believed to be right and true. And as far as I can tell, theyre not in the minority today. But I, personally, feel I will potentially bring more people to faith through Luke 6:27 than I ever will by flinging Romans 1 in folks' faces. I understand that Jesus is love. And that certainly is much more appealing than being subject to His judgment. However, Jesus told the truth in love. Sometimes, after presenting the truth (or flinging it as you described it), those who thought they were his disciples decided differently. It wasnt what he wanted. He told the truth and some chose to reject it. Jesus said: "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." Matthew 10:32-39

Vicki - Its difficult for me to tell if we disagree or not, because you seem to be trying to say something without explicitly stating it. Regardless, as a philosophical point, I would like to offer something about the extremes and the middle. The middle is a safe place. Its not too far from either side. And while being at the extreme end, means you or the guy at the other extreme end is unquestionably wrong - it doesnt necessarily mean neither one of you is right.

Packsaddle, Bush isnt blameless. Im sure that there are some things that could have been done better or differently. But I dont hold the same view of him as you thats for certain. Clinton had an opportunity to apprehend/kill bin Laden. If that would have prevented 9-11, then I guess you can make of that what you want. I dont blame him for 9-11. I blame the terrorists. Pointing fingers at Presidents just goes to show you People want to believe that they (humanity) can control everything. All of our problems are solvableits just a matter of finding the right man (or woman) with the right intellect and human spirit to lead us and make it all happen. That appears to be the mantra of this generation and those to come. Otherwise, they may have to admit that their fate is in Gods hands. Or if you prefer to think like those folks who see no design in the World or any transcendent purpose for our being your fate is a matter of random events and probability. Why folks would rather believe in humanity (given our history) or random fate (given its randomness and meaninglessness), is beyond me. Perhaps those ideas are more appealing then being un-reconciled to a Holy and Righteous God.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

BadenP, Your serious acceptance and promotion of the movie W, tells me all I need to know about your politics, and your theology. Theres a chasm here thats not going to be bridged. Good luck on the other side, and enjoy the next four years (assuming the polls are correct) and all that it might bring. Just dont blame the previous administration when it happens.

Yes. Well Dan, you're entitled to change my words, but I stand by them. I have little to no control over whatever happens today or tomorrow in this country. What I can control is what I think and what I embrace as truth. And I have come to the conclusion that the truth of God is plain to see, just as Romans 1 proclaims. That said, to the best of my ability, I'm preparing my heart, mind, and soul to stand before God one day. I hope you're doing the same. (This message has been edited by Rooster7)

"The Boy Scouts no longer exist as an organization. They chose to disband rather than be forced to obey the Supreme Court decision that they would have to hire homosexual scoutmasters and allow them to sleep in tents with young boys." Which part generates fear for you? The part about the BSA disbanding or homosexuals being allowed to sleep in tents with young boys? Frankly, if the BSA took such a stand and disbanded, I'd be saddened, but I would applaud their resolve. However, I doubt that day will come. And if it did, someone else would likely pick up the charter (so to speak) and continue the program. The saddest possibility, and unfortunately the most likely, some day this country will be idiotic enough to allow homosexual men to sleep in tents with young boys (as if it were a right). If youre in that group, I have no respect for you. More specifically, I have no respect for your ability to think and/or to defend goodness. If you think Dobson is fear mongering then perhaps you should read Romans 1. The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20 Therell be a day when God will peer into the mind and heart of each man and all will be revealed. Now thats something we should fear.