ronvo

fling, I really like your idea about telling when/how you learned something to your boys. I, myself am not all that knowledgeable about all the flora and fauna in our area - but I am trying to learn - and to pass it on to my scouts. Only in the past few years have I even become real confident in identifying poison ivy. Now everytime our boys step out into the "woods" I test them on dicerning between poison ivy and virginai creeper. They are getting pretty good at it. Let's face it - as presented in books the nature stuff is pretty boring and few people know enough to teach it well AND make it interesting. BUT if we could make a game out of it! Hey that is the scouting way - has anyone done this and what did you do? ron

Whay is it juris seems to start a thread but never contributes further to that thread? Who IS this guy. May be after his name he should write he used to be Fat Old Guy? ronvo

If you ask how many are in SCOUTING and cubs raise their hands - you're surprised. They ARE in Scouting. GOSH,......! Obviously your imaginary great troop doesn't have any Den Chiefs performing service to the Pack. ronvo

Ozemu, Thanks for the reply. I feel from the lack of responses that either people here think its a dumb question - afterall isn't part of the requirements OR no they don't and don't care to admit it. And I understand and agree with what you are saying. However, don't you think that by encouraging kids to "look, listen, feel, smell and wonder" that their curiosity will be stimulated and that in order to exercise "a relationship with nature" in a sustainable way, one would have to develop that relationship and get to KNOW the other party? YIS, ron

I had a Tiger jump up on the lap of the DE at a Pack Meeting. He asked what he did and was told that he was in charge of Scouting in the area. After a moment of sizing up the DE, the Tiger says, "My brother has more patches than you. He should be in charge." Out of the mouths of babes...

In your outdoor program what are you teaching besides outdoor living skills? Nature Study? Conservation? How many units have boys who truly know the common flora of their area? How many of you have boys who TRULY know how to distinguish between venomous and non-venomous snakes and which are indigenous to your area? How many of the units represented here have done conservation service projects? Just curious. ron

Trev Thanks for the encouraging words. Yes I have spent a bit of time perusing that site. Another interesting article not directly related to scouting is "From Woodcraft to Leave No Trace" http://www.lib.duke.edu/forest/Publications/EH/July2002/Turner.pdf discusses some of the history of woodcraft I mentioned. ron

Colonneh Lodge 137 Ordeal 1976 Brotherhood 1977 Ani-kawa Chapter Secretary and Chief Chapter Dance and Ceremonial Teams Inactive a lot of years now - but I too was obssesed - used to doodle arrows all the time! Yours in the Brotherhood WWW ronvo

Great Question! The thing to look at is the larger societal changes in the early twentieth century that the outdoors element of scouting is related to. B-P's scheme took ALOT from Seton and the Birch Bark Roll. Also in the US was the "Woodcraft" movement (not Seton's Woodcraft Indian program) which had started some years before with the likes of George Sears a.k.a. Nessmuk. In the 20-30 years prior to the founding of the BSA the Woodcraft movement promoted healthy outdoor living, a return to masculinity and self reliance, and escape from modernity. It was during this time that summer camps developed. Theodore Roosevelt, a great supporter of the BSA, thought boys and men should live the "strenuous life". Being outdoors, camping , fishing, hunting, hiking. TR also became quite the football fan and thought it bully for building men. During the early 20th century to with the advent of the automobile made it easier for people to escape the city and camp. Henry Ford help promote this and was even instrumental in developing charcoal for outdoor cooking (read the KingsFord bag) So I really don't belive that B-P was the great genius many make him to be in developing the scouting scheme. I know Seton deserves much more credit than he is given. Seton worte most of the first BSA handbook which was quite diffrent from B-P's. The BSA in fact is quite diffrent from scouting in other countries and the BSA likes it that way. For instance how many here will celebrate the 100th Aniversary of Scouting in 2007 with the rest of the world. (By the way anyone going to the World Jamboree). If scouting hadn't been developed when it was-I am not sure what would happen today. A large part of the woodcraft movement was against materialistic consumerism and for doing it for your self. Of course a lot of the early woodcraft movement had to do with chopping down trees to build, shelters, beds and camp gadgets a big no-no today. Any way enough rambling - sorry I am not more succinct in my writing - thats why I have post so little the past year since joining - but I do enjoying reading the forum and have learned much Thanks YIS Ron

I was in a couple of those "rebel" units as a boy. I lived for scouting, had a great time and earned my Star. Of course I was mostly ignorant of how things were suppose to be. I did know it wasn't as presented in the literature. I know now what I missed out on had the units follwed the program more closely and had more trained leaders. The boys will have fun pretty much no matter what. The adults however owe it to them to deliver a quality program. My son is second year Webelo and I find myself in a similar situation. The troop our pack is associated with is sponsored by the same church - however I am not impressed with what I have seen while visiting the troop a number of time the past few years. They have produced a lot of Eagles - which honestly makes me wonder. So I have been wrestling with staying and trying to instigate change, moving to different troop, starting a new troop ( I should have 10-12 boys crossover) or start a small scale local Woodcraft program. I don't know the answer yet, but I do know CNY we will find support here. YIS ron the lurker

How, How! A Neat web site that deals with this PROBLEM is http://www.breakthechain.org/ Check it out! YIS, ron

In thinking about putting a kit together for CUBS - I was thinking an instruction sheet of what to do if lost should be included. However instead of text a few simple pictures of hugging a tree, blowing a whistle, using the garbage sack, etc. What do ya'll think? Unfortunately I can't draw! ronvo

FOG While I personally really enjoy foil packs - for some reason our boys have never taken to them - after four years even. I think it is because they much prefer sticking hotdogs on a stick and being able to hold them in the fire! Boil in bag eggs - never heard of that one but will try it out this weekend. Thanks Scouters! ronvo

Thanks for the replies. I think we might try shish kabobs - so any hints on that would be helpful now. Can you get potatoes done when the meat is done on kabobs? Also, has anyone cooked an egg in paper bag? Seems like I saw that one somewhere a time ago but can't find it now. YIS Ronvo

Does anyone have a good menu plan for Webelos overnighter that boys can cook themselves other than hot dogs on a stick or foil pouches? Thanks ronvo

EagleWB I don't think 1:1 is required a Concil Cub Resident camp, any way it isn't at ours. All they rewuire is 2 deep plus 1 more for each additional 10 cubs over 20 (qty of cubs not age!) Plus my hypothetical question about 1:1 is parents who have more than one son who is a cub and is attending 1:1 would be impossible! ronvo

Here in the Ozark Trails Council in Southern Missouri we have a grest Cub Resident Camp at Frank Childress Scout Reservation. It is open to Wolf & Bear Cubs and Webelos. It runs 6 or 7 sessions each summer with a session running either Sun-Tues or Thurs-Sat. Ususally the camp is full with 150-200+ boys per session. We went 2 weeks ago for the Jul 1-3 session. The camp was alomost empty with only some 50 boys in attndence - this probably due to it being a holiday weekend. We found it much better though with the fewer boys in camp. Daily activities included Archery, BB Gun Shooting, Crafts, Nature and Swimming plus a theme activity. This year the theme for Cubs was Miners and the theme for Webelos was Pirates.(Which was great because the camp has a wooden ship!) This was our (my son and me)third year to attend. The boys all seemed to have great time - though some whose parents were there decided to leave because of the storms. Our Pack had 17 boys attend and I was very proud of them for the smiles not whines while it rained most of the 3 days! Character Counts! Meals are served in the dining hall except for second night dinner, the camp provides the makings for foil packs and we cook at the camp site. Matt our DE is the Camp Director and he and his staff did a fine job. We are lucky that the camp is just outside of Joplin where we are, since our council covers most of the southern 1/4 of the state. Packs come from all over the council. My only complaint is that at the end of the camp we recieved a list of achievements the boys completed through their participation at camp and I think they were giving a few of those away. I have a speical place in my soul for Cubs & Cub Camp, having served on staff two years in the 70's at SHAC Cub Day Camp at Camp Strake. Do they still have that down there? YIS, ronvo Ron Vocelka Cubmaster Pack 17 St. Mary's Catholic Church Joplin, MO

BPW You mentioned in another post that you worked for a fedral agency and here that you are a park ranger. So do you work for th NPS? Where at? What is your specialty? YIS, ronvo

AH! The details! I also noticed that the BS hiking socks are only available in 2x !! thanks

I just noticed on scoutstuff.org that scout socks - both cub scout and boy scout - were liste under close out items! What's up with that?

That looks to me like it is part of G2SS (an appendix) on the BSA G2SS site. So why is that just a "guideline" and not "official" It says "these guidelines apply to Cub Scout Packs, Boys Scout Troops. Varsity..." If this is just a "guideline" how are we to know "what is"official" and what isn't if it is published by BSA?

HOW HOW 2Eagle! You're right - that IS Scouting at its best. Just don't let anyone know that you can start a fire without matches or we'll have to clear the camps of rocks and won't be able to take any steel tools camping with us. What are we teaching Scouts by not allowing them to have matches. If you have a PYRO problem in your group it ain't the matches!

BOB, Obviously then I didn't get trained and it was the trainer and not the material because we didn't talk about the material you mentioned. Frankly, I do not think the lady was a trained trainer, just an old scouter relating her experience. I believe from what I 've heard and read here however that the bad rap training gets is due to poor trainers. Again I think it is whichever old scouter will step up to be a trainer is given the book and told to go for it. I will withold any further judgement or comment until I can take a another training session. ronvo

First of I'll admit to having been to only the one offical training session. However I think the disappoint of that has made me wary of spending my time attending others. Why was the one a disappointment? A I stated in the previous thread the YP and G2SS part in the morning was good and useful. However the afternoon was lead by a lady who had been a den leader for many years. I am sure she was an excellent den leader. She told us of many of the crafts she had done over the years and 1001 uses for toilet paper holders. She showed us all the diiferent binders she had from Pow Wows all over the country. She also spent a large amount of time selling us on going to Pow Wow. As I said I am sure she was an exllent den leader but she wasn't a trainer. And I felt the afternoon a waste. Secondly because of the few attendees and few trainers they said there was suppose to be seperate sessions for Tiger Leaders than Wolf/Bear but they clumped us few folks together and talked mostly about Wolf Bear ( i was only Tiger Leader) They mentioned the Cub Leader Book but said a new reveiosn was on the way (this was Sept 2001)and so didin't go over that much - just references to "it's in the book". What I wish had been covered more is boy behavior, handling high energy boys in a group, keeping meeting flowing,that sort of stuff. I can read quite well so have "trained" my self for the most part my extensive reading of the literature. And most of can figure out how to put a craft together from the instructions. However - I don't think it replaces sessions from good trainers. But it is the learing to handle and deliver it to the boys that needs to be taught by folk who can acutally teach others. I think one problem is just as many units will accept any warm body for a leader - districts will accept any old timer as a trainer. I am planning to attend Webelos Leader Training and to be open minded. However if the next training is a poor as last it will take some convincing to get me to another. I'll just look for someone who use to be a Bob White or some Ol' fat guy to mentor me ;^) Thanks for the topic and allowing me to ramble. This forum is great. ronvo

pax christi