rismith

One thing that Mike "Settummanque" Walton, the guy who runs the USSP Uniform website, says that I agree with is offer to fix uniforms if you're going to make a comment. Now, this refers to patch placement and all that. For getting full uniforms, take stock of the unit. If you know there are people in there who can barely afford the shirt, think long and hard before rewarding others for having more. You end up putting the parents in the unenviable position of explaining that they can't afford it or may offend them into not returning. If it's a matter of people just choosing not to wear the uniform and money isn't an issue, then sure, think of positive rewards. Just be careful in how you approach the issue, as it's one of those things that can be an annoyance to you that comes off as petty to others.

On another note, the best way I have found to influence the "gimme" aspect of brotherhood is to incorporate the history into the rest of program. Learn why there are three taps and it is done as 1 and 2 taps. (3 parts of the scout oath and 12 parts of the scout law) and bring it up when you're just shooting the breeze with the members. Start chapter and lodge meetings with the obligation and end with the song. Get the ceremonies team more involved and get a hand out together to explain the ceremony team costumes and how they relate to the characters. Once you get through that, it's really not that much to do. Just take those little opportunities to encourage greater involvement and it get's easier. It starts with the little things and requires using influence, rather than just telling scouts what to do. The key is to give them the pieces and let them put it together and have the patience to realize it's going to take some time to catch on. In this case it might mean talking to the Lodge Chief, Vice Chief of Program, and a few of the other guys and asking them if they can do you a favor or asking what they think of the idea. It's up to them to implement it on the grand scale, but you can start with other scouts to spread it at different levels. If it catches on, cool. If it doesn't there are still other ways to get there.

Civil Disobediance refers specifically to governmental actions; not following rules is just not following rules. If you're arguing that this is civil disobediance and civil disobediance is bad, well, then I suppose Gandhi, MLK, Susan B. Anthony, and on will have to deal with your condemnation. I didn't call you a Patch Nazi, but don't have a problem calling people out for putting the rules above people. I maintain that if you're biggest problem is a 12 year old not following a discriminatory rule, be it based on gender, race, sexuality or whatever arbitrary standard we're using now, your life must be pretty awesome because I can think of a lot worse problems. For instance, 12 year olds doing the complete opposite of that, which is what about half of the scouting discipline issues I've run into were.

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L. Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277 (1953)."

And there are those that have. Not everyone chooses to do so. Even among the founding fathers there were many, particularly in the South, who opposed secession and wanted to work from within. More often than not, people don't choose to take their ball and go home. They try to change things from within. That's not something that we should discourage.

Eagle92, The mandatory requirements remain for membership and brotherhood. At the minimum, a Lodge has to increase membership by 1 and hit 30% for brotherhood conversion.

Eagle, The world is not black and white. Every time we talk about the founding fathers we are talking about men who defiantly broke the rules. People who signed their own death warrants in spite of the rules. If you're a Christian you know that Jesus violated Jewish law by entering the temple. You know that the rules that the Romans used to punish him were the same rules used to punish all. That doesn't make those rules fair and just. It doesn't mean that anyone who breaks them is somehow morally inferior. It often takes more courage to break a rule than it does to follow it. Don't even know what to say about the e-toughguy bit.

Eagle, if your biggest complaints about a 12 year old is that he broke a stupid rule to accept another boy and treat him as his equal, your life must be pretty grand. Or if you ignore all context for the sole purpose of pointing to "rule breaking" your life must be ... not pretty grand.

Oy, I'm sensing world's oldest senior patrol leader in here. If a scoutmaster is dictating how something is done, there's a problem. If a scoutmaster is adding requirements, there's a problem. There is one time where there should be no question about when a scoutmaster is in charge - matters of immediate safety. If there is no time to talk, that's the moment to act. Getting in a twist because a scout did not follow your pre-approved track to Eagle is far from the path.

Just to clarify here is the language used in the JTE worksheet: Overall award levels are determined as follows using the Grand Total points earned: - Bronze = at least 800 Grand Total points plus have completed at least bronze performance in 10 criteria, two of which must be objectives #3 and #5. - Silver - at least 1100 Grand Total points plus have completed bronze performance, including items #3 and #5, in at least 12 criteria - Gold = at least 1400 Grand Total points plus have completed bronze performance, including items #3 and #5, in at least 15 criteria

Rene, On the JTE form there are required categories. You must earn at least the bronze level in those areas to receive any JTE award. Membership and Brotherhood conversion are those two categories.

Rene, I'm not sure if I am reading you correctly. Either you are saying that they do qualify for JTE gold, which is incorrect, or you are saying that they only need to work on one area. The issue is the the Order of the Arrow is an honor society which has a conflict between increasing membership and sustaining quality. There will be big years that increase enrollment much higher than others. Even if those scouts don't sash and dash, sustained growth over longer period isn't really feasible. There are going to be drop offs year to year. The only way to get around this is either to have the Lodge pay dues for inactive members to sustain the trickle of growth or to eventually accept a year without JTE. It seems silly that a Lodge that has seen 20% growth a year for four years and then a 1% loss in the fifth year is not a quality lodge. I have a lot of complaints about JTE, but this is my main OA related complaint.

Yes, as adults, we often get to pick and choose rules. In scouts we already have names for people who think they are the arbiters of BSA policy - patch nazis. If BSA national wants to bring down the hammer, that's up to them. Otherwise, more power to them.

...we would more closely resemble scouting as it exists in most of Europe and internationally.

So if someone wanted to consolidate their knots, can someone who has previously earned the Cubmaster Award remove it and add a device to the Scouter Key, or should they continue to wear the Cubmaster Award?