belayer_StLouis

The knee socks are a left-over from the style of the Brits (but we never went for the kilts), they really are good protection from brush wacking your legs on the trails in camp. After seeing many ugly legs of adults with the short socks, both genders, I sort of wish more folks wore knee socks. Permethrin use: I've been using the stuff on my clothing for 30+ years, several brands of this insecticide available. Even the BSA catalog now sells the stuff. I spray a couple of sets of my summer hiking underwear, the entire sock, cuffs, waist and even the fly of all my pants. I spray my summer hiking shirts, it does not hurt any nylon or poly material. Have done lots of reading of material on backpacker.com and the companies that make the stuff. They claim it is not harmful to spray on you, it just doesn't work on human skin because there is some enzeme that neutralizes it. Some folks spray on the tent doors and screens to repel skeeters, no harm to tent. I've done summer trail marking thru high grass next to rivers and returned to trailhead with my pants and shirts red, covered with dead chiggers and ticks. I would no more wear gaiters to repel chiggers in the summer than I would wear a wool sweater here in Missouri in the summer - a bit hot and sticky. I've seen several differing claims about how many washings the clothes can take before the Permethrin is neutralized, several seems to be good number, good enough for the summer. Our Challenge Course and Climbing training really pushes the use of Permethrin because our programs are in heavily wooded and brushy areas. We have lots of happy Scouters who have followed our advice. A bit of a disclaimer: a recent adult climbing student of ours does not trust the manufacturers of this stuff and had several articles doubting the safety for humans. She and they claim that not enough science has been done, she is also a pretty "organic" person. If you have any doubts about the safety spend some time on the net, I didn't keep the articles.

I would imagine that the national office has the operational plans for this since so many councils have been doing it since it first started in '84 or '85. Our council has been doing it every year since then. You can contact me off line and I can give you the contact info for our council. WE are a 2 state council and food goes to a central food bank and several local community food banks. Some of them claim that we supply them with 25% of their annual canned food needs. Even if we wanted to stop doing the Scouting for Food program we couldn't, the communities expect us to do it and its a great tradition.

I agree with John-in-KC, not very often but this time I agree about young women in Venturing. Our full summer Venture base has some great Venture women staff members who contribute greatly to the outdoor program. I wish the OA would recognize their contributions to the outdoor programs and their sevice to the BSA.

I've done the Buffalo from Ponca, too much whitewater for kids and too early in the season. After the first couple of days, great sites, we were unimpressed. The Shawnee Nat. Forest is in our council, I don't think it has enough to do. You could do a float on the Current or Eleven Point in S. Missouri. Sierra Club has done one of their national trips on the Eleven Point. One to two week floats available, clear water, both are National Park rivers.

I've seen that pin, would be nice. I think the BSA has enough (understatement) stuff for Eagle Scout recognition in the way of crystal and such and there are enough NESA items. The simple oval Eagle Scout hat pin seems like a good idea, I noticed an OA hat pin in the on-line catalog.

I don't know how the kids in St. Louis dropped the ball. They've had this Fall Fun Rally since the 70's, didn't see any national type event on the horizon and they got Nat. office to designate as a Nat. Venturing event. Again, sponsor an event for your area. I don't think anyone really expects kids to come from across the county for a weekend but I don't see anyone else stepping up to kick off or promote a national event. Go for it if the Ventures in your area can pull it off.

I don't think Nat. had any great national Venturing type event planned and again I think it was pretty neat that kids drove this event to happen. I would bet other councils could sponsor "national venturing" events for the Centennial since local type events are being pushed to help celebrate, not just events by the Nat. office.

John, the active Venture members are in high school, not college. Some of the leadership kids might be in college but I would bet they will show for this event. This Fall Fun Rally has been the same weekend for lots of years, college football kind of ain't important to the high school kids. I also suspect that there will be many more national Venturing events in 2010 scattered around the country and by calling them national events they really are trying to gin up publicity. Don't think National could pull off a national jamboree type event for Ventures. I am impressed that kids are behind this.

The compression (tight fit) would be good as the first or wicking layer next to the skin. Some of their looser fitting models, and other brands, would be good as the second layer. Lots of good advice out there about layering, I know backpacker.com has some good basic info besides all the other sources.

Eagle92, I guess some generational differences are showing, my camp staff days were in the 60's. Sure can't remember the price then or how what I had for lunch yesterday. In our area red jackets were worn by lots of folks, the Phimont bull and the lodge back patch were and still are prominent but going to Philmont wasn't the reason to wear them. Many Scouters and lots of older kids wore them. Never have seen the purple intl. version. The red windbreaker never seemed to be a big deal here, its either a hot/muggy 90 something or cold so the wool jacket was a great uniform coat. What do you think about a red or green fleece jacket?

Green fleece jackets would be cool, missed the Venturing fleece jacket, never saw it. My main idea is to make an official jacket affordable to the customer - kid's parents. At $100, plus any dry cleaning cost, the red wool jacket is pretty pricy and no wonder we don't see them on kids.

Red wool jackets have been discussed many times and great length on this forum, usually the discussions are where to find them cheaper. I think Nat. Supply should ditch the wool jacket and adopt a red FLEECE jacket. I'm in a council that is heavy into the full uniform but you see very few red wool jackets. Back in my camp staff days, the 60's, many of us had the red wool jackets but I don't see that anymore. I think a fleece jacket would be very acceptable to scouts, cheaper by far and much easier to care for. Fleece vests/jackets are popular at Nat. Camp School and the OA has several versions. The lined nylon jacket just isn't the same or have enough warmth. Yes, my jacket still fits so I'm not interested in discussing where's the best place to get a jacket or how to plot to raise the capital to buy one. Does the forum think we should adopt the fleece jacket and ditch the wool version?

What a country! I'm a US Army vet, Eagle Scout, and all that kind of stuff that comes from being a 40 year Scouter and I'm happy that I live in a country that allows folks to dissent. The dad might not be a citizen but even if he was I respect his right to not make the pledge. I think that as long as the dad does not become rude during the pledge and shows respect to other folks beliefs we should respect his beliefs. I agree with some of the others that this could lead to some pretty serious discussions with the kids. They may be a bit too young to understand respecting those we disagree with but it might be worth a try. There are plenty of adults who don't understand.

Abel, If you tell me your council name I might be able to help. I'll find out a lot from their website. I worked for the BSA and other non-profs, I know how to read their annual reports. I have served on national task forces for the BSA and serve in the regional camping program process. Terry Pogue terrencepogue@yahoo.com

Abel, COR's vote on council officers and some other duties but don't think for a minute that they can rise up, vote and change your camp situation. Don't mean to denigrate the VP of Venturing but: spend your efforts with the council pres and camping chairman. Evidently butts in the cot (love that expression) isn't part of your scout executive and program director's critical achievements or whatever they now call the review process. I'm on the camping comm. of a major metro council (means big)and was a DE and camp director. If our camps only had 25% attendance the board would go crazy and so would the never ending procession of Directors of Camping and Scout Execs till the situation got fixed. Fix the attendance problem - that's the issue. Talk to the guys who can make a difference, call them direct and if they don't care you're sunk. Don't burden them with all the advancement issues and I would lead a delegation of experienced scouters that those board guys know and respect - do some research on their spheres of influence in the community.