RichardB

Can't speak to OGE's personal observations but there are at least 14 folks this year so far that did not hit the trail at PSR due to being undertall for their weight. One of the things that PSR sees is that everyone looks different. The requirements are very liberal and thus allow someone who might not have as much muscle in chest and legs to hike with a pretty big mid-section. One of the recent ones that did not make it on the trail was 49 lbs over the max for his height. Richard PS: There are noted alternative percent body fat requirements if needed.

Ramblings.... Sorry LB your assumptions are far from reality.....but if it makes you feel better to assume, please assume the best...... Every time a member of the clan go see our medical providers we take along a form of some kind, sometimes two or three. They update a health history every time we go in anyway. Need an exam completed, make it easy on your provider, updated forms are easy to complete. Provider won't help, doubt they care enough to be my provider. Little secret - my doc loves to see active lifestyles - makes him happy we care about our health. Loves to hear hiking, swimming, paddling is part of the plan. Doc not in, guess what the NP's and PA's have the same thoughts. That's how we have managed this for the last 11 years which includes the time prior to 2008 when camps and councils used their own forms......remember those days? So whats the real problem? The planning and effort required? None of this is secret is it? Even the membership application says complete the AHMR and give it to you leader. No surprises from day one. Most councils do leaders meetings and as other threads indicate they are poorly attended. Is that a medical problem? Do a paperwork workshop? Why not. Training? Lots of health history training In our current program. Taken the new safe swim? Could the issue be Ineffective communication of expectations between leaders and parents or youth? Ever look mom or dad in the eye and explain how their son or daughters health is important and they are concerned with their kids health and safety as much as you are right? Never had a mom or dad argue that point. Richard PS: 95-99% of "national" questions are asked and answered on the FAQ's. The AHMR page is on of the top two web page hits "nationally" May thru July. (This message has been edited by RichardB)

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/ahmr.aspx Has lots of info including FAQ's that maybe, just maybe ask and answer several of the issues discribed in this thread. And also point out some practices you should not be doing. What my question is - why do you have to have a date related to camp that drives part c completion "if" you are year round camping? I know of only one camp that has a 90 day before camp requirement, and although there are a few quirky local, state camp statues why wait and be set up to fail a youth? Is camp the time to review validity? Of course, but why don't your folks just update them every time the see a doc? Is it because they never see a doc?

Skeptic, Your council gets them if submitted online as soon as you submit. They do actually have to set up who that is. Can be assigned to anyone including your DE if they wanted.

I am hoping this is the best forum but it's hot out there and maybe, just maybe, you can help spread the word about the importance of hydration. (and no, there is not a national policy that says program must stop at X degrees). Fun Stuff - Win a water bottle: http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/06/29/happy-mountaineers-create-a-hydration-slogan-win-a-limited-edition-water-bottle/ Serious Stuff: http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/Alerts/heat_index.aspx Richard

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-016_fillable.pdf

Impossible to get approval, they are reviewed by council. That aside, use the pdf If you send me the incident ID you got from the call via PM I will look into it, should not happen if you meet the criteria - what is your position code?

Wow, I just stumbled on this thread, did not know my fate was at debate - is anyone keeping the count on keep him or fire him? For the record, I would prefer to work my way out of the job - so when we figure out how to get to the point of a precision operation that is intrinsically safe, would gladly walk away. Richard PS: I'm still waiting to find out what the cub scout is doing with his radio flyer and homemade alcohol stove that is strategic to the success of that service project.

Wow, I just stumbled on this thread, did not know my fate was at debate - is anyone keeping the count on keep him or fire him? For the record, I would prefer to work my way out of the job - so when we figure out how to get to the point of a precision operation that is intrinsically safe, would gladly walk away. Richard PS: I'm still waiting to find out what the cub scout is doing with his radio flyer and homemade alcohol stove that is strategic to the success of that service project.

FAQ link on MyScouting.org https://documents.scouting.org/MyScouting/MyScoutingFAQ.htm

mailto:merit.badge@scouting.org to officially propose it. Do the following: 1) Explain to your counselor the hazards you are most likely to encounter while using tape, and what you should do to anticipate, help prevent, mitigate, or lessen these hazards. 2) Show that you know first aid for, and the prevention of, injuries or illnesses that could occur while taping, including hair loss, skin irritation, overstressing tape, and exposure to hazardous sticky stuff on the tape. 3) Explain why taping your Scoutmaster to a wall is a bad idea. 3) With your counselor, discuss general safety precautions and Material Safety Data Sheets related to tape. Explain the importance of the MSDS and the new GHS.

Beavah - are these parent's in Class B, Field or dress uniform? Was it a new uniform? Richard PS: serious new stuff on driving posted today here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Training.aspx http://www.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/632-006_WB.pdf Other references: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Alerts/Insurance.aspx http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/demotourplanfaq.aspx http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss11.aspx

"Oh, good. So I can still cook things with my block of magnesium! Beavah" How do you light and contain it? What size Class D Fire Extinguisher do you pack in with it? Richard PS: Thermite welding was part of my former life. Amazing process. PSS: Et al, sorry I won't meet your expectations on specifics. I did offer "Some hypothetical illustrations and hopefully they will help expand the "I do not see how that's dangerous" box several are trapped in. I would suggest google is your friend and to go a little farther down the rabbit trail here is one of my favorites from the search: http://www.medbc.com/annals/review/vol_16/num_3/text/vol16n3p122.asp (and yes, admittedly not scouting centric)

http://scoutingmagazine.org/contact/letters-to-the-editor-about-our-november-december-2011-issue/ Please read through the link, reference merit badges. I'd also recommend that one actually takes some time to re-read the documents again. "Because they can do it at home". How do we plan to balance a real or perceived standard of care for someone else's child? Is it the same with our own child? Lets look at the church steeple (or make it the Widows barn if you want) While we are justifiying that concept outside of personal experiences and feelings - what is the generally accepted standard of care for a roof construction project? What would happen if Timmy fell off the roof at church on his own? Would the church knowingly let a him up there to begin with. What restrictions would they impose? What would city standards for roofing require? What insurance would they require? To intentionally go on a rabbit trail - so since Timmy plays video games and texts with his smart phone then he must use them on the next camp out?

Heard a couple quotes recently: Precision operations are intrensically safe. "Bru" - a pilot Ingnorance is not knowing. Stupid is knowing and doing it anyway. - Larry Winget May ignorance be lifted.

Okay - why is this? Where do we mandate the type of service project being conducted? The review committee is biased? Okay that's another thread. "...Our council EP review committee has created a strong bias for construction project. (I've always guessed someone on the committee was in the lumber business.)..." Back to the project at hand. Some hypothetical illustrations and hopefully they will help expand the "I do not see how that's dangerous" box several are trapped in. And why did Timmy select a re-roof of the church steeple? Why does Johnny need the 24 foot ladder? To scrape the lead paint off the light poles in the playground before he paints them of course. We want to clean gutters on the homes of the elderly in town as a fundraiser. Don't know why he fell off the semi trailer moving stacks of those boxes (it was just with a hand cart). Falling off the wagon is for another day. But we have those floating air pumps and hoses, it's not like they have to dive more than a few feet to do the work. The scaffold will go to the ceiling so he can change the lights. We didn't know the gas line was there. Not sure why the roof collapsed on them. What does asbestos look like? How is Little Eagle doing? How did his finger get smashed? "They think the finger will stay on, but he wasn't operating - he was just loading it...." So more questions: As to the calls for another training, videos, etc. so do we grow our own qualified construction personnel and make every service project a vocational training program? Perhaps create a framework to vet qualified supervision for project oversight? SRC a new acronym for the service project counselor was born today on Scouter.com! Mandate OSHA 10 or 30 hour style course? Require written hazard communication programs (have you collected the MSDS that meets the new GHS for that oak plank? A degree in industrial arts and teaching certificate required to be a counselor? As in schools. Do you see development of said course as strategic to the mission of the organization? How would YOU scope that?

Help me understand why a youth planning and executing a service project can't be expected to recruit qualified adults to do hazardous work? Richard PS: My son recruited me into Scouting. Went something like "..Hey Dad, this old guy came to school today and told us we could shoot BB Guns and Bows and Arrows...we have to go up and check it out tonight.."

http://scoutingmagazine.org/contact/letters-to-the-editor-about-our-november-december-2011-issue/

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Guidelines_Policies.aspx is a landing page you might bookmark. Actually, it's really interesting to go back into the archives here and read the past discussions on the topic. As to what constitues legal, moral and ethical in your state (to the reply about why teenagers can't find jobs doing certain things) you might want to review www.youthrules.gov or search the DOL.gov or FLSA and youth. Richard PS: This does not add any requirements to an eagle project.

Do we need a national policy that says use the right tool for the job at hand? Richard PS: I live the knife ads that pop up on Scouter.com.

There are various program requirements in addition to YP should said program be planned for the camping trip. Weather Hazards, Safe Swim, Safety Afloat, Climb on Safely, CPR / AED, WFA are a few that come to mind.

"...but I'm not really as interested in cooking with alcohol as I am in making the stoves. It's the DIY that matters..." A safety geek just might identify and quantify this tidbit of info as part of the risk associated with homemade alcohol stoves and suggest other camp gadgets as alternatives.

Answer to OP - Hazards (real not imaginary), and not comparative risk (worse or better than risk of XYZ.) Want to do your own PHA of homemade equipment lifecycle risks? Here is the link to the PHA. Would be interested in your results and of course what innovative mitigations you come up with. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Forms.aspx Program Hazard Analysis (PHA), No. 680-009 This evaluation process is used to systematically identify, assess, and resolve hazards associated with program activities that support the vision, mission, and goals of the Boy Scouts of America. An analysis should be conducted for new program activities, for modifications to or expansions of existing activities, or for existing program activities with newly recognized hazards.

Yes, to the OP: Had belay or fall protection been discussed for projects with fall exposure over 6 feet.

Provide belay or fall protection above 6 feet?