RichardB

PS you are welcome. So sad that assumptions are blindly accepted as facts by so many. As a quick example. BP suggests that "national" folks should try the program for a couple of months. Well, BP Saturday I had the chance to help run two PWD's back to back.. The first was the 12th year in a row for our churches feeder pack, this time as in the last 6 years as leader of a troop whose boys are running the event on a track built in my garage when I was a wolf den leader. (Table saws were involved) The second was a district wide invitational for webelos suggested by the incoming SM as a way to introduce the boys to our Troop. BTW, the PWD is always an uplifting experience, being able to see the excitement in the eyes of our youth is the reason we do it. Perhaps, just perhaps "we" should focus on solutions so that will continue. (This message has been edited by Richardb)

Okay, now if memory serves many in this thread want the data being requested. Data that as I fondly remember some of you have demanded be produced to justify change. Jerry the argument doesn't fly. Help me understand why when offered tools to capture this data and you have a chance to provide it you chose not to do it?

BP, your namesake would be so proud. And yes folks this thread gives great examples of where the challenge lies. Assumptions can be risky.....

Here is a link to today's Scout Wire article on the subject. http://scout-wire.org/2013/01/24/incident-reporting-kits-next-steps/ Perhaps you can quiz your DE at the next roundtable to see if they have recieved theirs. For those of you that can't wait to read cover to cover the latest version of the Guide to Safe Scouting, be on the lookout for the 2013 edition "green" cover in your Scout Shop. It includes a revised incident reporting section as mentioned in the Scout Wire Article. Hopefully any ambiguity that existed is now gone. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss14.aspx To help those who want more detail the appendix also includes a matrix to assist you in reporting: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-033.pdf Richard

We want you to know that the leadership development task force has been working on options for the Lance Armstrong portions of NYLT since the USADA banned him and he did not fight the charges in October 2012. We will be sharing the options with councils in the next few weeks. From my counterpart Mark Griffin.

Week 10, Health and Safety / Risk Managment Course. You get interface time with National Staff, the Chair of the H&S Support Committee, and a SE who chairs the Risk Management Advisory Council. Plus it is one of the lighter volume weeks so less crowded, more interaction with other groups.

Don't "we" want to discuss the role of the National Council as it exists today to move ahead? Does anyone disagree that the role of the national council is developing program? A program that is delivered locally via local councils and community organizations. If that is the case and the program is not being delivered as desired, designed or in the best interest of youth wouldn't adjustments or changes be made? As to simplistic don't "we" also suggest a KISMIF approach? Keep it Simple, Make it Fun or KISS, Keep is Super Simple as a best practice? Isn't simple the way to fix Bureaucracy? Please, what am I missing here if this is not the topic at hand.

5year, Yes my volunteer & paid bosses know I've chosen to participate in several non-sanctioned scouting forums. Are you suprised? The H&S Support Committee has folks on most of the larger yahoo groups as well. Why, because in doing the "job" in a relationship based organizationI've found listening can produce 1) some good ideas that might otherwise be lost. 2) an appreciation of how communication channels need to be reviewed to prevent misinformation. 3) situational awareness. Yes, I have google searches of my name set up but not here, don't you? Also various safety and scouting related searches.....This forum however is hit and miss at best. Please let me know if you want me engaged, some have, I'll be happy to jump in. As to poking, well, I'm still working on kind........but got to have thick skin if you have an opinion on this forum.

Okay, so now its the council beating folks or some insurance company? It's a vicious circle that keeps repeating. "We" are the solution to move the movement forward. "they" are just the scapegoats and execuses. What can you do to move the movement forward? Do it. Repeat.

Okay, so now its the council beating folks or some insurance company? It's a vicious circle that keeps repeating. "We" are the solution to move the movement forward. "they" are just the scapegoats and execuses. What can you do to move the movement forward? Do it. Repeat.

Really folks? Chapman? I liked the Star Wars analogies much better. And don't go getting the basement guy started on 5 shot J-frame revolvers....... As to the topic at hand. Perhaps one could look at the role of the national council as developing program. The program is delivered locally via local councils and community organizations. Could it be that the program is not being delivered as desired, designed or in the best interest of youth? Think about it...... Richard

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/511-942.pdf I particularly like the inclusion of a safety minute.....

So - did you not know going in what the material would be? For those with already advanced skills - any of you ever just challenged the course? NO need to sit thru one if your skills are already there. For those who want advancement requirements to be more difficult, would you be willing to hold a third party instructor certification?

Source for the answer vs. opinon and folklore is here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx#e

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/Alerts/SkyLanterns.aspx In case you don't subscribe to the RSS feed for alerts. You might also notice a recently posted update to the Guide to Safe Scouting.... http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/toc.aspx

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/ahmr.aspx Parts A and B are to be completed at least annually by participants in all Scouting events. This health history, parental/guardian informed consent and release agreement, and talent release statement are to be completed by the participant and parents/guardians. All participants (includes family not just youth) .....all events.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/amredcross.aspx

I'd suggest with that list - Heartsaver and do the cert for any adults. It may be challenging for Webelos. For the readyman, I might suggest a Friends and Family with Mini-Annies make good family impact as well. The compression only is designed only for adults that drop in front of you.

Got to say Dean, that if you are already a prisoner in "training" and suffering thru it locally - perhaps you should consider stepping up and teaching the class? I'm unaware of anything stopping your unit, or council from setting that up as a requirement. Let us know how that goes. Richard Topic tangent - Suggestion for the day - you may want to make sure each of your youth know's CPR, far more likely they will use it on you.

March-April Scouting Magazine - No secret, Motor Vehicle Accidents lead claims in both frequency and severity. http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/07/31/are-you-safe-when-driving-scouts-around-take-the-quiz-and-find-out/ http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/SafetyThoughts/120504.aspx http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/SafetyThoughts/120628.aspx http://www.scouting.org/nsc.aspx http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/04/19/whats-the-no-1-killer-of-children-or-how-the-bsa-keeps-your-scouts-safe/ Do the masses think that mandated defensive driving is an answer?

Just an FYI and reminder. This seemed like the right place to put it. Assume the best if possible.

September is National Preparedness Month......Are you prepared? http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/Alerts/NationalPreparednessMonth.aspx

The winners. http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/07/23/liquid-gold-check-out-these-10-winning-hydration-slogans/#more-15641

Camp Loud Thunder has a problem, they went thru way too many rounds of .22 on this pilot program about 3.5 times the original estimate. But they found a way. Pretty neat set-up they did two types of shooting (please review the shooting sports guide) - an experiential program - safety briefing and instructors load - kids fire; and a weeklong "merit badge" style program which included NRA "first steps". They also have an "unusually high" (my words) shooting sports culture, property to develop in close proximity to their membership base, and a goal of 60 volunteer NRA instructors by next summer. During the week we were there many of the current instructors found the time to show up for the experiential program to suppliment staff. Thus increase range capacity to the fullest extent. As a first year pilot, pretty sure it will be called a success but that is only a preliminary guess / rumor / non-fact. But the pilot process is a lot more than just shooting pistols. Evaluations from the council and participants are being gathered and will be evaluated for future continuance and the possibility of expanding the pilot to others who are interested. To my knowledge there is no proposal on the table for a pistol shooting MB. Not the purpose of the pilot. Richard PS: Really cool patch was given to participants.

Dean, if I were a gambler I'd take the bet. Wow, way off on a tangent on this one. H/W guidelines came from experience and are one of many risk factors. And with around 22 years of execution, they continue to reduce issues in the backcounty. They are not the only risk factor, but for adults provide a very good "first step" in evaluating risk. The PSR director does not like to have to be put in the position to turn folks away. He prefers to see folks having a great time at PSR. But, as I mentioned, 14 times this year so far he has been up to the task. He does not worry too much about support on this one or any medical related turndown. And with 50K attendees at high adventure bases annually the one or two times a year it does make it to my attention are rare. In case you wonder, have yet to overturn one of those decisions. And please, this group seems to love to blame it on some "insurance carrier". It's about the health and safety of our members. Richard PS: Do you know how many times one had to acknowledge the risk before you get to PSR? Take a look at the literature to prepare for the trek and let the folks here know would you. PSS: Two folks did not make it on SBR grounds for the shakedown due to not meeting the standards set. Please do not put the staff / medical team in this position. Start walking and hiking now for the 2013 NSJ.