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Thank you, everyone, for your comments and suggestions so far. I have read the syllabus, and that's why I posted this thread. Our DE is convinced that we can just squeeze this in on Sunday afternoon at the end of a vigorous weekend of activities. To do so, all we have to do is eliminate some parts, like reflection time, activities, Video scenes of Vision and Leadership...you get the picture. Some of us would rather look at VLSC sort of like "Introduction to Woodbadge for Young Adults" and use it to prepare for a week-long Kodiak experience. Our Crew has spent the last 6 weeks going through a generic Crew Development Course (heavily modified from the Coast Guard and Navy programs) that introduced the ideas that VLSC will expand upon and develop. They (the new Venturers in particular) were looking forward to VLSC as a significant accomplishment. We have a session scheduled for our Crew, and it looks like we'll take a pass on the Council version. I'd hate to disappoint the youth with a hurry-up version just so someone can fill out the paperwork.

We are having a minor disagreement within our District/Council and are interested in other's opinions/insights into the VLSC. The Council is sponsoring a Venturing weekend program at a local hotel with snorkeling, SCUBA, and a few other activities to give the youth something different to do during the winter months. All fine and good so far. We were then advised that they would be offering the VLSC program on Sunday morning, running about 4 hours. From what I've seen, the VLSC, if done correctly, is more designed around a weekend experience of it's own, or at least an all day outing. I've gone through the activities, PowerPoints, etc., and quite frankly can't imagine how we can do justice to the program and cram it in as an after thought to another program. Thoughts and opinions from other Scouters (and Venturers) are always welcome.

I should probably apologize in advance for not seeing your post earlier. The Central Region had a session in the St. Louis area last weekend. That probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but if you email OLDPLC@aol.com (one of the instructors from that session), she can probably direct you to the right people for other sessions in the region. I'm pretty sure there are sessions coming up in the Chicago area and central Indiana. Good luck, and plan on long hours during the session.

I would not discourage either parent if they both want to be involved in the program. I would counsel them about the time involved, like I do with any new volunteer. My wife and I have both been involved in a variety of positions and our different skill sets and perspectives compliment each other and have resulted in a better program. In Cub Scouts I served as Cubmaster while she took a Den Leader's job. On the district level, when I moved from CS Roundtable Commissioner to District Commissioner, i commissioned her as Roundtable Commissioner and she continued to improve that program. We also work together on the Council Day Camps: I am the Camp Director and she brings her wealth of ideas to the table as my Program Director. (I do not recommend attending National Camp School together--the program can be intense). She also serves as Charter Org Rep for the Venture Crew in which I am the Advisor. Bottom line here is that if you have two qualified adults who want to be involved in Scouting, bring them on. They might even find that it will strengthentheir family relationships.

In this case, the then District Training Chair was the Cub Scout Trainer (and not a bad presenter in her time) who insisted on keeping the job. Roundtable attendance began dropping with the drop in trained leaders caused by a once competent presenter/trainer hanging on too long. Roundtable was mentioned only as a consequence of the training issue. Our District utilizes separate Cub Scout and Boy Scout Trainers simply because we have people with expertise in those programs who are also good presenters (our Council Training Chair has done a great job of re-vitalizing the program). Our Cub Scout Trainer(s) are also somewhat exuberant and manage to put some pizzaz into Cub Scout Leader Specific Training that prospective Cub Scouters need. More succinctly: Yes, good trainers must be good presenters, but without some rotation we run the risk of making training routine (boring?) instead of inspiring new leaders to continue the process to Wood Badge.

Are there other kinds of gifts? My eldest daughter was thrilled to discover that there is finally a Venturing *Blouse* designed to fit her a little better. Daughter #2, who just joined the Crew, got her new backpack and hydration equipment for the 2007 Philmont Trek. Son #1 got his tan shirt getting ready for Webelos2 and crossover. Daughter #3, who at 5 years old doesn't understand why she can't be a Cub Scout, got to go to the Council office/Scout Shop to pick up her "Little Scout Buddy" t-shirt. Mom (my wife, not my mother) got an additional shirt to go with her new role as Roundtable Commissioner. I got a bunch of happy Scouts. Oh, and the DE found yet another job for me!

A few years ago, when someone convinced me that I wanted to be a Cubmaster, I walked into a Pack with no program, boys wandered around at meetings aimlessly, pretty much carried on their own conversations regardless of who was talking, and, following the example of the previous Cubmaster, were informal in their uniforming and the manner in which they addressed the adults. The other adult leaders followed suit; after all, that's how the Cubmaster publicly addressed them. The simple act of the Cubmaster standing in front referring to the other adults as Mr., Ms., or Mrs. Lastname changed the form of address in two Pack meetings or less. It just became the norm. No one had to tell the boys not to call the leaders by their first names; I showed respect for the other adults, they picked up on the intent, and the boys and they responded in kind. The other problems went away in the first meeting when they were finally introduced to what a Cubscoout program should be (try to picture a Pack with 2nd year Webelos who have never sang a song or put on a skit), but that's for a different thread.

I guess I'm on both sides of this discussion. Enthusiastic, experienced trainers are indeed worth their weight in gold, but sooner or later, they need to be replaced. I've seen a Cubscout trainer (CS Wood Badge trained) that, in previous years, did a fantastic job of training and motivating generation after generation of Cub Scout leaders. No one else was needed for the job in the district because she could do it all. As time passed, the job evidently became routine and the training became boring, the presentation was a dull monotone, and attendance at training slipped. Roundtable followed closely thereafter and RTC quit in frustration. Then came the search for new personnel to do the training from an ever dwindling group of badly trained leaders. In hindsight, had a new trainer been rotated in [much] earlier, the transition would certainly have gone smoother [there were hard feeling when the change finally came]. Waiting for the almost inevitable burnout that comes to many trainers (and other Scouters) is inviting disaster. Retiring a trainer who is still doing an adequate job for the next generation of trainer can be painful, but just might be better for the program in the long-term. Just my humble opinion.

This might be a good time to get the Commissioner staff involved. Helping units succeed is, after all, their job description. A nudge from the Unit Commissioner (or perhaps District Commissioner) explaining the roles and purposes of the pack leadership positions (including CC and treasurer) might help, and certainly can't make things worse. If additional help (or funding) is needed you might also check to see if your District or Council has an active Scoutreach program. Our Scoutreach program provides "temporary" leadership to several units with similar circumstances (usually Den Leaders and Cubmasters) but they also take a strong role in guiding the Committee (while sneaking in some training on the side). I will echo the previous poster in telling you not to feel guilty for leaving--you're not giving up, you're moving on to a different unit because of a move. Good luck with your new unit, and stick with the program--it works!

I've been monitoring the forums for a while and figured it was probably time to introduce myself. I've had the pleasure to be involved in Scouting since my youth and now have the opportunity to keep having fun in the program while helping our boys (and girls--remember Venturing!) become better citizens. I currently serve as District Commissioner, Cubmaster, Venture Crew Advisor, District OA Advisor (working with the Scoutreach Mentoring Program), Cubscout Camp Director, and a member of the Council Training Staff including Outdoor Skills. Thanks to all the members who have shared their ideas and insights. They have provided some much needed help.