result1

Just want to take a few min, and say thank you to everyone that responded to my question on Troop money and Troop Flags. I also like to say Good-bye and God bless you all. Fact 1) this troop does not have much commutation and a lot of mis-commutation. One would think any thing coming from the SM or ASM should be correct and or the same. Most of the time they are not on the same page. The SM told me that the BSA only publish a general guide, every troop is different and he runs this troop. Fact 2) as I said It normally would never cross my mind to question, (Wheres the money). The summer camp fundraiser (not all the money was deposited so the money is gone the Troop roster of who worked when is missing or lost). And I agree with the Committee Chair, just move forward. If they could have figured out how much money will be applied to the scouts summer camp from the funds that was deposited in a timely manner it would have never been an issue. The Committee Chair is also the Treasurer, She told me and some other adults that the Old Scout master did not give her and or deposit all of the money from the fundraiser. Implied that it was gambled away. As it turns out what she tells us is different from what she tells the Chartered Partner. They are under the impression that (He is not an accountant and lost some of the receipts). Why be telling 2 different stories??? Fact 3) in most cases its taking 2 years for the scout to become 1st class. Where many other troops try to have them 1st class in the 1st year. And if it truly a boy run troop, following closely the BSA general guide it can be done. Fact 4) there is a difference between a Flag and a flag patch As it turns out I question the Chartered Partner, They are not that involved with the troop function as they have 100% confidence of the Committee Chair and SM. They are only there for legal matters. The Committee Chair and SM, held a committee meeting consisting of (committee Chair and SM) no other committee members were called. (Since I had asked question to the Chartered Partner) They voted that my son and I would no longer be part of the troop. And my son would not go to summer camp. And they were not willing to refund my money. (Note not the money my son earned at the fundraiser the money I referring to is $200 out of my pocket) I know I would get my money (Plus) back in court, but it did not come to that. The Chartered Partner was willing to give my money back, but was surprised that they made that decision. We talked a bit, and that is where I learned what Committee Chair tells us is different from what she tells them. (The money was nothing to me It was my son wanted to go to summer camp with the boys that he has gotten to know over the past year.) So you might say I went over there heads, after talking the Chartered Partner and them talking to the SM, they had no problem with me or my son and my son was welcome to come to the summer camp. The Committee chair was not going I had hopes that the SM would be professional and I trusted the other adults that were going, so my son did go on this years summer camp. But any Committee Chair and SM or anyone else that has a disagreement or felt that a parent went over their heads to get answers, decide to talk it out on a 12 year old boy is not fit to be any part of the BSA or any other youth group. Thats my opinion Sounds like other Committee members and parents will be going to the Chartered Partner for answers and concerns, but I will believe that when I see it. And the sad fact is (Its not going to change a thing), I feel bad for the other boys - I will find something else for my son. I have checked out another troop looks very organized Newsletters handouts they dont hide the funds it looks like the boys do run the troop. They seam to be learning and having fun. So this troop does have a possibility but Im more inclined to have my son join the civil air patrol. if he wants too, as he knows two other boys in the civil air patrol (CAP)that was in his Boy scout troop, telling him that CAP is a lot better. Thank you all and God Bless

Im sorry, but I felt that I had to explain my position and intention. And as far as asking what is a District Committee member that is just what it was. Please let me try to explain. To me, it would seem that this forum and people in the troop speak in some type of code. Many of you have been doing this from a while, and know the structure of the cub scouts and boy scouts. What all the CC SM and others mean. From time to time this CC talks about runs. I understand it mostly for the cub scouts. (I do not know much of any of it so its like a code that I do not understand.) Now if we were talking electronics Slot Machines something on those lines, I would know what everyone is talking about. As far as this troop there were small things that bothered me, which was nothing. The major one as I talked about on troop money was the fund raiser. Then the flag. I dont know how the cub scouts are broken down (Packs)? I guessing as the boys age they go to different packs. But I do know our CC is involved in all of them. Does she were many hats I would think so. Can she handle them all I dont know Im not at all the different meetings. I dont have any kinds in cub scouts the small things that happened she had nothing or very little to do with. The major 2 things that got to me she played the major roll in. The biggest problem is I dont know much about the scouts. And what I read and what Im told about the boy run troop, etc. I just dont see it. I have never seen this troop brake up into different groups its always all the boys together. I will look in to the training as you suggested. Maybe all of my questions will be answered and every one will stop talking in code HA! HA!. Thank you, and every one for the information.

Why would you want to ask her about it? Is it to simply push her buttons? I dont push buttons, I would ask her questions just like I would post question here. If I dont know I ask (I may or may not agree with the answer, regardless of the answer I get) I try to understand it. My thoughts of a situation maybe wrong. But I try to understand different point of view. They all know if there is something I can do to help I will do what I can. And know that in no way that I want to take over and be in charge. I am not qualified. They already had that problem before with ASM wanting to be SM I dont have any personal problems with any one there, they are all nice and I admire what they do for the boys. Just disagree with some of the things that have been happening. Just because I disagree dont mean that they are wrong I may be wrong. But if I dont ask questions I will never know and never be able to understand anything. If my posting of questions here bothering anyone then Im sorry. Yes, Im in the process of trying to find out who the Unit Commissioner is, and I dont see no need to go down a list of what I think is wrong with them. As I said. I am not qualified to say what is or is not right. Point being they just need to come and visit, and make what ever adjustments they see fit. If it was not for the postings here, I would have never known anything about Unit Commissioner (or the District Commissioner). As far as finding a different troop Wish we did not have too and whos to say the next troop wont have the same or more problems. And whos to say they are problems. I could be like many other parents just drop my son off as if Im dropping him off at a baby sitter. Dont ask questions, and just hope he is having fun and learning something. Thats just not my way. I made the troop a web site so they all can print out the photos that I take or have been given to post. They all can have access to them. I will help with transportation and help with activates and even dressed up to be Frosty the snow man did the papers work to be merit badge counselor. I try to be involved in a low key way. Been with this troop a year now, and boy scouts is new to my son as well as it is to me. Just like my son should be learning I should be learning also. Sorry if my posting have bother anyone. That was not my intent. BTW - They did have the Flags last night

Thank you all for the information, and the link to the scout zone, they had a good list but gave no other information as to when and where they meet. Referred you to the Local Council, which is where I went. But the guy was out in the field but after sending him an e-mail, I now have a few troops to check out after the holiday weekend. Its a shame, as this troop does have well-meaning group of people. This unit needs a visit from its UC in a most serious fashion forgive me but what is UC. My guess Unit committee / Unit Commissioner Next week, I also need to ask the CC/Treasurer, what the patch on her shoulder mean District Committee guessing that may be another position that she holds? As far as the Flags, its not that they do not have the flags. The Old SM always had them in his Truck. The Boys would unload his truck and set up the Flags. With the New SM- they had flags for a while but now I do not see them. They should have them tonight for the cross over. But I may be wrong. Granted the flag of the United States is any flag of the United States, or any part thereof, made of any substance, of any size, accurate or not, that is recognized as a flag by the reasonable observer. Some argue that flags are only those items made for display as flags. However the flag code makes clear that the image of the flag sewn into fabric (as on T-shirts) or printed on paper are still considered flags: "... It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. It just dont seem right to salute & pledge to a patch even throw it may be recognized as a flag by the reasonable observer. Thank you all

I have been having the same problem. I have this forum saved in my favorites - and found when I clink on the link, and even thow it comes up to the forun, I click on the Forums ant the top of the site. Then everything is working fine.

Your right I will be stopping by the BSA office on my way home, and see if they can give me a list of other troops in my area. I will check them all out between now and the time my son comes back from summer camp in July. Thank you all for your feedback, at times I just need to know that Im not NUTS And something is wrong and Im not looking to deep in something that is no big deal. Just because its a big deal to me dont mean its a big deal to some one else. Thank you all

Troop Flags How important are the Troops Flag and the United States Flag in a Troop Meeting? I know at one Time, Both Flags was at every meeting. Last Night they had the CC come to the center of the room, every one (Pledge alliance to the Flag) that was on her uniform. The week before that it was a Cub Scout getting ready to cross over was called to the center of the room. I have my own personal thoughts, and thats why I posting this. Im sure they still have the Flags, just have not been bringing them to the meetings

Well I see, the CC problem is not an isolated to just this troop. As I said, Last night they finally came out with the $ amount that will be applied to the scouts for summer camp (From the Fund raiser 4 months ago). Then wanted the balance of the money from the parents (So they get payment sent to the Camp) which should have been done a week ago. My son was (PAID between fund raiser and what I already paid), over paid even after applying $40 to my sons camp spending Over paid by $92.00 They made a mistake on one scout which would of affected everyone (A little bit) I told them take my over payment and correct the error and spread out the rest where needed. Finally a closer to the summer camp fundraiser from long ago. There was just no excuse for this; its simple (Old Math). To my surprised the Camp Geronimo T-shirts with troop number was ordered. No longer need a Sample of Troop budget found plenty of information on Internet search (Thank you) One more question, if you dont mind When your troop have a yard sale, does the CC runs it Example: The Yard sale I refer to in previous posting, The Boys was there at 5 am and set up Then sit around doing nothing all day. When people had questions and or wanted to buy something (The CC handle it) other parents SM Committee members in the garage. The CC ran it all. But the boys were there to put the things away. I may be wrong but I totally disagree I think the boys should have not only set up but also answered questions and sold the items when someone want it. The boys should have handle the money and interact with the people that came by. I also think one of the boys could be collecting the weekly dues, handling the money and accounting in the meeting and all fund raisers. (With an adult leader supervising and explaining how to do it and what to look for). Teach the boys which would be better then having the boys do all the work then tell them some of the money is gone! When they say Scouts is a boy run program why are their so many limits of what the boys can do? Thank you all for your input Thank you for letting me vent

Last question for now - why is your CC also the treasurer? Is it because he really wants to be? Or because no one else would do it? I really dont know why she is both the CC and treasurer. She has turned down offers from other parents that dont mind helping out on other positions. The Troop Money has never been a question to me as I did not feel it was my business and new to the scouts. And may not have been a question to me now if she could have told the parents about the last fund raisers (Gift of Lights) which was 4 months ago. The summer camp fess should have been paid by 15 May 2007, but I understand that she got an extension till this weekend yard sale. One would think Monday night meeting we all should know how much each parents must pay to have there son go to summer camp. (Yes it will be the very last min and Im sure they will want it by the time the meeting is over). I will see what happens tomorrow night. Now that I have question the troop money, I also have to find out about the Camp Geronimo T-shirts with troop number which we all ready have paid for but never did get a confirmation on the order was placed or not which was due 26 April 2007. I will find out what happens tomorrow night then I will go to the people that charter the troop which may be useless as the connection with the CC and the Charter will be very strong, since she also handles the Cub scouts. She never missed a cub scout meeting which she has 3 or 4 of them a week. But I will voice my concerns with the Charter; the only other options would be the IRS. As far as Troop money (Bookkeeping how hard can it really be?). Cant be any harder then a persons home budget? Does any one have a list of (Sample of Troop budget Expenses) I dont need figures (Dollar Amounts) as each troop would be different. The Expenses would vary between troops also but would give me some ideal of how to set up a budget on excel and access.

Another Question. Can some one tell me or tell me where I can look it up. Do to the fact they could not give us (ME) the information form a fundraiser 4 months ago, and I started to dig a bit deeper in to the troop money. This Committee Chair is also Troop Treasurer which has not provide the Committee any reports of the troop funds except some verbal estimates for the past 3 years plus. Reading the description of the 2 positions. Troop Treasurer serves at the satisfaction of the Committee Chair and the Troop Committee. Would that mean that if the committee members wanted, they could have the Committee Chair appoint someone other then herself? Troop Committee Chair (CC) is selected by the Charter Organization Representative (COR) to organize the Troop Committee. Serves at the satisfaction of the COR and Troop Committee. Reports to: Charter Organization Representative Troop Treasurer maintains all troop finances, collects dues and fees, and pays troop bills. Appointed by the Committee Chair and serves at the satisfaction of the Committee Chair and the Troop Committee. Reports to: Committee Chair

Thank you all for the information, It normally would never cross my mind to question, (Wheres the money). The summer camp fundraiser (not all the money was deposited so the money is gone the Troop roster of who worked when is missing or lost). And I agree with the Committee Chair, just move forward. If they could have figured out how much money will be applied to the scouts summer camp from the funds that was deposited in a timely manner it would have never been an issue. I understand that they all are well-meaning volunteers doing their best, but its been 4 months since the summer camp fundraiser, there is no excuse it should take this long. I also have to question, if you cant close out one fundraiser, how can you start a new one. It will just add to the confusion. But guess I should not say anything as it took 4 months of talking about fundraiser to get this one on the calendar. You all gave me a lot to think about. And I agree, Open books - It isnt really practical to invite troop adults and parents to look over the books. On the other hand having closed books would appear someone is trying to hide something. Troop books should be accurate and complete, and audited from time to time. I also tend to agree that the Treasurer should be creating a monthly report for the Committee. Its my understand that has not been done for the past 3 years. Also like the thought of that report, as well as Committee Meeting minutes, should be provided to any parent who requests them. Keeping everything out in the open and preventing rumors and innuendo. Strongly agree, Combining the position of Committee Chair and Treasurer or Scoutmaster and Treasurer is a recipe for bad news. I dont know all the function of the Committee Chair, nor do I really care. But I do have to agree, The CC is to see that all the committee functions are being handled; not to do the work. But in this troop, nothings seem to be down without the CC. Meaning many dont even want to have a committee meeting with the CC. FYI about the weekly dues, that was my misunderstanding. Turns out that I have been over paying. It was confirmed last night that the scouts only pay dues for the meetings that they attend. Thank you all for your input on this. I may end up contacting the Chartered Partner with my concerns about the funds. But after really thinking about this past years with this troop, may be the council was right and I should look for some other troop, may be better organized and better for my son with advancement and outings etc. Thank you all again

I don't know if I understood the summer camp fee issue. What I think you are saying is: camp costs $265 but the troop is requesting donations (from whom?) What I was trying to say when the summer camp first came up they quoted the price from last year. Very poor communication -Like none for the ASM, came out with letters to pass out requesting donations $280 per scout. If he would of told everyone the correct price that would have been a dead issue Then it jumped up to $285. But I wanted to see the paper that said $285 They could not find it and agreed that the price is still $280. I dont care what the price is just tell me what is going on. Parents don't really know whether they're responsible for the whole $265 or not, depending on what happened with the fundraising $, They said the fundraising is for summer camp. The cost $280 less what they decide the boys will get from the fundraising. I dont see why it will take so long, a few phone calls to the parents requesting the day and hours the scout was working on the fundraising use the excel spreadsheet and be done with it and a week or two. Then tell the parents what is left to pay for summer camp. The requested an extension from the camp, as they want to have a yard sale to get more money. They flat out refuse to do a swap meet even thou we could get the space for free. (Is this a boy run troop)? I have already paid $200 so the $80 is no problem. But other parents may have a problem Communication is the Key. Boy Run troop? Last weekend was Scout expo, a few Parents/committee member, say a few of the boys wanted some rest time. (I did not see any one ask the scouts) it was decided for this Scout expo they would have a rest booth. They missed a great chance for a fundraiser. If all that you are saying is correct and something like $1200 has truly vanished, then the CC Total amount that vanished is unknown, they said last year they made over $3000.00 This year its about $1200 they have to work with. The CC told everyone they just want to move on (Forget about it). I try to talk give suggestion, in a nice way. I dont want to come across like Im trying to take over they have had plenty of that from others. My self I just like to be told what is going on, what I need to pay (in advance).

I want to thank you all, but let me clarify some things. Your son isn't entitled to a single dime of fundraising money himself That I clearly understand. Fundraising is a group (Team work) project. Dont expect it to be like a job where he would get paid. Fact: it was a fundraiser for summer camp so the parents would not have to pay the entire fees. And its also good for the boys its learning. Last year the SM divided the funds equally between all boys going to summer camp. This year (After the fundraiser he is gone and the CC has said what he did last year was wrong, it will be based on the hours the boys worked. This yeas the cost of summer camp is $280.00, everyone is waiting to see how much of the fundraiser will be applied to the scouts (Towards summer camp). But - (Copy of what I sent to Area Council a long time ago) The troop had a fundraiser during November & December (Money was to go to the scouts for summer camp). The roster of the boys that attended and which nights they worked, sound like the list was lost or cannot be found. The money that was turned in, and or deposited, sounds like a lot of money is missing. And sure many rumors are floating around. But they decided to move forward and plan other fundraisers. At one point it was said they had about $1800 less $500 for re-charter and est. $100 for insurance leaving a balance of est. $1200.00 for the boys. The question was and still is today how is that money will be divided between the boys that worked out in the cold nights - it was for Summer Camp. Would of thought that information would have been told to everyone a long time ago. They are accepting payments for the summer camp - and parents are paying but have no ideal what happened to the money from the fundraiser. Will the boys get anything? One asst. Scoutmaster said last night, there is no money. And if that is the case what happened to the est. $1200.00 2) New fundraiser There was some talk of new fundraisers, Jan 29 - (No follow-through) a month later. (Update 9 May and still no new fundraisers) 3) Bad information Asst Scout master passed out information on Summer Camp stating $265.00 per scout - (No word of the money from the fundraisers.) A week later - passes out a letter asking for donations, stating that the summer camp is $280.00 Granted it only $15.00 more and really no big deal. But that is not how I saw it. The bad information made it appear the summer camp is $265.00 but if we are asking for donation its $280. My thought is this is NOT what I want my son to learn. Why not just tell the truth. (Which he was, but very poor communication -Like none - no communication) made it appear to be dishonest Follow up on the Internet Summer camp is $280.00 What Im saying is if they would tell me what if any thing will be applied to my sons summer camp. I have no problem pay the difference. I just like some time to work it onto my budget. But I now understand they are asking The Summer camp for some extra time to submit the money for summer camp. Back to Troop Money I do not know all the different finance the troop has to deal with. Last Nov Paid 26.90 boys life I may be wrong but thought some of that went to recharter Understand about awards, insurance. What other expenses, the boys clean up around the school so there is no cost there for the meetings. Collecting weekly dues Personally I dont know where the money is going. And it may not be any of my business. But I do think this is a non-profit and the money should go to boys is some way. With what happened to the last (Only found raiser) I do have to ask myself who is making profit. And to answer the obvious There are other problems Just seam that nothing is planed, and or very poor communication between everyone and very slow follow-through. And still in question when does the boys learn and work on advancement. What wrong when - Scoutmaster comes in, don't even know what the asst scoutmaster is teaching or inspecting. Who should know what is going on, whom does a parent or (anyone)go to for information?

Thank you all for the information

The Committee Chair is the Treasurer, she also work with the Cub scouts 4 nights of the week The fund raiser of last Nov and Dec was for summer camp only. Most of the money is gone. The innuendo that "the old Scoutmaster took Scout's money" was made by Committee Chair It was others that Scout's money went to the Cub Scouts My question about Due is because I make sure my sons is paid regardless if he is there or not. But just noticed that not the same for everyone. I just dont see how it can take over 4 months to tell the boys how much money will be going to them for summer camp, no matter how they work out the split. The only advice the Las Vegas Area Council, was going to give was some other troops to check out. Which is the way I going to have to go, but I told my son he will go with them on this summer camp. I only question is what about the other boys, I know this troop can do better. My position was just a father (Parent), now they have me as merit badge counselor, and in doing so. Put me down as committee member. All of this is new to me, but being in the gaming business for the parts 20+ years I do know this is not right about the money. One should never put him or her self in a position for the rumors and innuendo