resqman

Patrols decide menus in the patrol meeting week or two in advance of campout. Adult advisors sit in the back of each patrol meeting so will veto choices if necessary. Breakfasts tend towards pancakes, eggs, precooked bacon/sausage, bagels, oatmeal, fruit. Last month at YLT we introduced "Toad in a Hole" buttered bread with hole cut in middle laid on griddle with egg dropped into hole. Bread becomes toast and keeps the egg from running. When firm, flip and toast other side. Big hit. Was seem at every patrol breakfast at the next campout. Lunches tend to be no cook like sandwhich meats, cheeses, pita or tortilla (bread is already squashed so no complaining), fruit. Occasionally see soups or raviolli Sat evening is a troop theme cookoff. PLC declares theme and all patrols are free to cook anything that meets the theme. Bragging rights and small trinkets are awarded to patrol with best meal. Last months Asian theme was outstanding. One grubmaster went to the asisan grocery store and brought a bunch of bottles and containers with no english text. Ground fresh ginger, sliced, diced and chopped all sorts of stuff to make a wonderful dish. We have been through the most common, Mexican, Italian, Asian, Seafood, etc. Discussions are leaning towards all patrols are required to use the same ingrediants but use different recipies. Another idea was to require the use of a dutch ovens or box ovens for all or portion of meal, mystery ingrediant issued by SM must be incorporated, etc. The competative nature of the boys has really encouraged the patrols to outdo each other with challenging recipies and presentation skills. Gone are the days of hot dogs and hamburgers every campout. We usually forego cracker barrell but the patrols make several dutch oven cobblers and share. Sunday mornings tend to be boil water and cold food options. Bagels, oatmeal/grits, juice, hot coco, cereal bars, fruit. Some cook. Last month at YLT we split them into 2 patrols and they were given recipies and food. One we made bake everything in box or dutch ovens and the other fry everything in turkey fryer. Bakers got fish fillets, corn bread, potatoes, onions, & cheese soup. The fryers got fish filets, batter fixings, hush puppy mix, potatoes. The adults got fish filets, corn bread mix, potatoes, onions, cajon creole seasoning. Bakers were supposed to slice potatoes and onions and mix with chesse in dutch oven. Fryers were expected to thinly slice and make potato chips. Adults diced their potatoes & onions and made hash in fry pan on stove. Bakers baked fish. Fryers made a batter and fried. Adults applied creole seasoning and blackened in cast iron skillet. There was enough that all were able to sample all the various methods of all the ingrediants. We provided the ingrediants, recipies and cooking gear since it was YLT and the participants were not involved in the planning. We are planning on teaching as many of the traditional meal preparation as possible to the NSP. Foil packets, boil-in-bag eggs, egg in orange rind, eggs & bacon in paper bag, using dutch ovens for something besides dessert, box ovens, etc. to add interest and wonder. Sunday lunch is usually overlooked. We are encouraging the scouts to plan a bag lunch they can eat in the cars on the way home.

In our troop, the PLC chooses a theme for the Sat evening meal for the montlhy campout. Asian, Mexican, Italian, Seafood etc. Each patrol is free to make any dish they desire that could possibly fit the theme. Troop budget says they are allowed $4 per person per meal. The patrols prepare, cook and serve the meal. They make a presentation serving for the judges, usually the SM and 2 or 3 ASMs. They can make the presentation as simple as asking the judges to come by and they will serve on to the judges mess kit or make a presentation plate and present ala Iron Chef. The judges sample the food. Sometimes it is obvious who should not win because the rice is undercooked and crunchy, the food has no taste, burned, etc. Over the past year, the quality of the cooking and presentation has risen considerably. The judging is now often very close. There have also been creative entries for the theme. One patrol entered Corn and Chicken served in a Coconut shell for the Seafood or as they explained the "C-food" theme. The food was bland but the creativty was worth some points. Duing the Asian theme one patrol served fried rice in the center of the mess kit, with steamed brocolli atop and sauted shrimp tails draped over the rim of the plate. For dessert they offered a rice crispy square with a swedish fish atop wrapped by fruit by the foot in a sushi fashion. Last month one patrol offered grilled salmon in a teriakyi sauce. Wonderfully tasty but it was the ONLY item they had for their meal. While the taste was supreme, they lacked a complete meal so did not win. We award "points" for presentation, creativity, representation of the entire food pryamid, and taste. We do not have a formal point system. More of a general concensus amoung the judges. We have been awarding POUVs (Prizes of Unspeakable Value) to the winning patrol members. The POUVs are items of about $1-$2 that the troop buys from Dollar stores, CheaperThanDirt.com, and SportsmansGuide.com Mostly it has been about bragging rights within the troop. Ideas that have been floating around for themes including: all food must be prepared in a Dutch Oven, At least one item must be prepared in a box oven, all patrols are given the same list of ingrediants several weeks in advance,

My son joined Cub Scouts as a Wolf. I ended up becoming the den leader after a couple of months when the first fella could not fit being den leader in between his time as little league coach and two full time jobs. 4 years as a Den Leader and I was very happy to retire when the den crossed over to Boy Scouts. I am now part way through my third year as an ASM. The tougher job by far is being a Den Leader. Developing a lesson plan, pulling together supplies, and teaching a topic every week. Keeping parents up to date with den and pack events. Tracking advancement, monthly leader meetings, planning pack events. It is a lot of work. Having a Co-Den Leader is a necessity. We did not get a den chief until the last 6 months of Webelos 2. Man, if we had a den cheif earlier in the program that would have helped a bunch. I would say the reason I considered leaving is the shear amount of work to put on a good program. The second reason would have been burnout. I was in a Pack with a functioning and staffed Pack committee with ample money. I can only imagine how difficult it would have been with a disfuntional pack committee and short funds. That 1 hour a week thing. Yeah, 1 hour per scout per week. I only had 6 boys in my den so I never spent less than 6 hours a week. I stayed because I love scouting and sharing the various skills. Had I been a parent with little or no previous scouting experience, I probably would not have stayed in the program due to the amount of effort it required. Suggestions: 1- Go to nearby troops and request den chiefs for every den in the pack. 2 den cheifs per den would be better. That way the Den Leader gives den chief A a lesson plan for week 1 and den chief B a lesson plan for week 2. The den chiefs alternate weeks they are the lead. The den chiefs have 2 weeks to flesh out the plan, gather supplies, review the materials, etc. The Den leader is really only doing the planning and the Den Chiefs are doing the bulk of the information transfer. It seems like more work to work with den chiefs but in really is easier to TELL a Boy Scout to teach 3 knots than it is to TEACH 3 knots to a den. The cub scouts tend to listen to the Boy Scout more so than a boring adult who drones on. 2) Ensure there is a Co-Den Leader for every den. That way every one feels better if they have to miss an event because the other is there to cover. Worst case no den leaders but the den chiefs can run the meeting and be simply monitored by the parents. 3) Use Program Helps. Lots of great ideas for activities and projects that cost little or no supplies. Age appropriate and easy to hand to the Den Chief and say follow the book. 4) I found that moving the den meeting to my house helped. No more schleeping materials and supplies to the church and back. If I forgot something or needed something, I was at my house with lots of opportunties. The scouts could play in the backyard until everyone showed up. No more worry about kids running up and down the church hallways disturbing the AA meetings. 5) Give whinny parents a choice. Stop complaining or help. If you can't help and still want to complain, then find a different den/pack. Whinners forget that Den Leaders are volunteers not paid baby sitters. Removing whinny parents solves lots of headaches for the volunteers. Fortunately all the whinny parents were in other dens.

My son joined Cub Scouts as a Wolf. I ended up becoming the den leader after a couple of months when the first fella could not fit being den leader inbetween his time as little league coach and two full time jobs. 4 years as a Den Leader and I was very happy to retire when the den crossed over to Boy Scouts. Part way through my third year as an ASM. The tougher job by far is being a Den Leader. Developing a lesson plan, pulling together supplies, and teaching a topic every week. Keeping parents up to date with den and pack events. Tracking advancement, monthly leader meetings, planning pack events. It is a lot of work. Having a Co or Assistant Den Leader is a necessity if you have a full time job. We did not get a den chief until the last 6 months of Webelos 2. Man, if we had a den cheif earlier in the program that would have helped a bunch. I would say the reason I considered leaving is the shear amount of work to put on a good program. The second reason would have been burnout.

We were an "outdoor focused with a water activity minor but known for our high adventure program" troop because the last SM was a dive instructor and preferred water activities. The troop has a high adventure trip each summer which usually rotates through the three national high adventure bases (Philmont, Florida Sea Base, and Norther Tier). Now we have cut back to an outdoor troop with occasional water actvities and high adventure. The troop plans at least one water based outing (sea kayaking last spring and lake canoeing last fall) but we also usually have at least one climbing outing since one ASM is BSA certified. We still encourage the scouts to attend a high adventure base/activity. The SM is attending Philmont this summer while last summer the old SM ran a open water dive trip to the Bahamas for a week, and the previous year scouts went to N. Tier. Several have mentioned moving more towards backpacking and away from troop trailer camping. Some of the adults would miss the opportunity to Dutch Oven. We are large enough that we send a dozen of the 14/15+ age scouts to high adventure while 3 dozen of the younger scouts participate in summer camp.

I guess it all depends on the numbers. We had 45-55 registered scouts before crossover. 13 crossovers have signed the paperwork. We had 10 on the first campout two weeks later. Three older scouts volunteered to be troop guides and act as patrol leaders until after summer camp to show the NSP how to get things moving. Last campout we had approximately 40 scouts and eight adults. We needed 7 vehicles just to transport that many people. All the adults except one attending were registered ASMs and had been with the troop at least one year. The only "new parent" has 2 boys, one in the troop for 3 years and one crossover. This was his first campout with the troop. He was kept busy running a merit badge session and cooking for the adult patrol. New parents are cetainly allowed but politely discouraged from attending campouts to encourage the crossovers to learn to depend on each other as well as the boy leadership instead of mom & dad. New parents are encouraged to take youth leadership and fast start so they understand and can attend if they choose.

Our troop hosts a Webelos Invitational campout in November at one of the nearby state parks. The patrols set up stations and teach basic skills: knots, first aid, totin chip, fire starting, etc. Vistors rotate through the stations which are completely run and managed by the scouts. The last station before lunch, the visiting Webelos make several box ovens. Then each visitor assembles his own pizza using a tortilla, pizza sause, grated cheese, and a selection of toppings. The pizzas go in the box ovens they just made. They get to eat their pizzas for lunch. While this is going on the parents are encouraged/invited to meet with the SM. The SM explains boy lead vs. adult lead, reviews the trips for last year, the planned trips coming up, the annual high adventure base trips (Philmont, Florida Sea Base, Canada Canoe Trip), typical costs for camping trips, summer camp, etc. Covers the troop equipment (trailer, tents, lanterns, patrol boxes, etc) and what the troop expects from the parents. The troop cooks a traditional thanksgiving feast including several turkeys in dutch ovens, mashed taters, bread baked in the box ovens, sides, and salad. The ASM's serve all. Several cobblers are made in dutch ovens and served after the meal. Since most of the ASM's are involved in the feast preparation and the SM is explaining how things work, the boys must run the show. Parents see Boy Led in action. They hear about the differences between adult vs. boy. They hear about how exciting the program has been and how exciting it will be. They see that the troop has the means, equipment, and leadership to allow their sons to grow, explore and succeed. We do not have any designated feeder packs. The last 3 years we have had 12-14 webelos join the troop from Packs that also had Troops with the same sponser. Probably only 65-75% of those that attend the invitational join our troop. Even so, once they cross over, its obvious parents feel left out after so much involvement in Cubs. The first 4 meetings following crossover, the parents are "required" to attend new parent orientation where all the paperwork is completed and they get another explanation about boy vs. adult, a request to complete Yute Protection Training, as well as common ways in which the troop operates. The first campout we see every crossover parent hovering over the new scouts while the trailer is being loaded and the experienced parents drop and run. We also give the new parents two ASM's contact information who are the designated NSP advisors. The NSP advisors handle most of the questions and hand holding of the parents. Den Leaders are torn between wanting to get involved and breathing a sigh of relief that they are no longer responsible for the little brats. We give them until after summer camp in June and then we start recruiting crossover parents to become involved in troop committee and ASM roles.

Usually polls are designed to answer a question. If you have no question, why do you need a poll? I can think of two areas that could be important to troop leadership. 1) A poll of existing registered scouts seeking reasons why they stay in scouts. Why kinds of activities keep them in the program and which activities would they like to see reduced or removed. 2) A poll of scout aged yutes and Parents of scout age yutes why they/their sons are not involved in scouting. What would make scouting attractive enough to join and participate on regular basis.

During the hike or as a time filler before and after? Knot tying could be accomplished during the hike. Teach a knot and give each hiker a length of rope to carry and practice during the hike. During breaks teach a new knot and have each scout tie the previous knot(s). By end of hike, they should be able to tie all the knots. Part of a hike to me is enjoying the hike itself. I would caution about adding too much instruction during the hike. Certainly instructional sessions before and after the hike make sense.

Cancelled plans for major purchases (SWMBO really needs a new car, but we'll wait) -Cancelled family "vacation" this year - forget Jambo When people don't spend, then we go into recession. Companies start laying off people because there are not enough sales. Out of work people don't buy things so more people get laid off. Downward spiral. If we all spend and buy, companies can afford to keep people on the payroll. They make money and buy more goods and services so companies have to hire more people to handle the increased business. By all means reduce your debt. That is always a good idea. But also spend to keep the ecomony moving.

The troop I belong to pays for WB. As part of the parent orientation program several years ago, I asked if the troop paid for WB. The presenters looked at each other, shrugged their shoulders, and asked why wouldn't the troop pay. Turns out both of them were WB trainers. The SM, CC, and 3 or 4 ASMs are WB trained. I guess it depends on the troop budget. Last fiscal year, the troop ran $39,000 through the account. About 10,000 was summer camp fees. Another 12,000 was monthly campout fees. Another $6-7000 for high adventure trip. $200 for a training course would hardly be a blip on the budget. Membership is about 65 scouts and about dozen ASM.

Take this thought one step further. Once they join the troop, the boys need a method to track their activites. Sure the handbook has a spot to record the first 10 activities. How many of the boys know to use it? I create a folder for each new boy. The folder has thier name on the front cover along with the BSA logo. The first page lists the meeting place, troop number, patrol name, patrol members, and the adult advisors for their patrol. Next is a contact list of patrol members. Next is a spread sheet with fields for Date, Location, Activities, Service Hours, Nights Camping. Next are a few plastic sheets for storing baseball cards available from the office supply store. This gives them a place to store their rank advancement, blue cards, totin chit, fireman chit, etc cards. After every COH they can add the cards and after every outing, they can record the basic information to the hardcopy spread sheet. When they sit for the first skills check, I ask them if they have filled out the spread sheet. Most have not. Then they understand the need and start to track things. At Eagle time, they have all their blue cards and other documentation in one location. Easy to fill out the Eagle application.

Hand sanitizer is mostly alcohol. A few squirts and a spark is all you need. At summer camp, a few scouts filled a soda can about half full of sanitizer. A spark or two and it shot flames about 6-8 feet in the air. A little too effective. Fortunately no one was hurt and very few scouts saw or heard the "experiement". We have been leary of sharing this information for fear that a scout may try More is Better.

As discussed in many areas on this forum, leaders make a variety of statements of "fact" and limit or restrict various activities for the boys in their care. Commonly heard restrictions like no sheath knifes, must be a certain rank to hold POR, etc. I have been told that I could not teach steel wool and batteries as a fire starting technique. No one could point to any scout literature so I continue to offer it as an alternative. The leaders gave an explanation why they did not want the fire starters used. You and your son may disagree with their reason, but that is the one given. I applaude your sons efforts to make something for every member attending. A lot of effort on his part. I can understand why your son may be hesitant to work with the leaders after this event. The best solution is to open up a conversation between your son and the leaders. They may not understand his viewpoint. If there is no conversation, there will be no resolution. Both sides need to understand your son's reaction so they handle the situation better in the future. I know there are times that I have to make a decision to allow activities to play out or stop them before they reach the inevitable conclusion. Some times I stop the activity before hand so I don't have to deal with the mess after it blows up. It sounds like this is one of those times that his leadership stopped it before hand. This is one case where I would have allowed it to continue to prove my point. A bad smell smelt is a better lesson than some adult telling a kid he can't. I use lint as a firestarter on a regular basis and do not notice any particular odor of burnt hair. Our scoutmaster is fond of saying some boys learning by listening, some by watching and some have to piss on the electric fence themselves. We have a lot urinators in our troop.

I attended an AOL last year to recieve new members into the troop. The Pack had the rising Webelos build their own shadow boxes to display their awards. Basically all you need is some 1x4 lumber. Cut miter corners to make a box. Set the blade of your saw one third the depth of the wood and cut a groove 1/4 inch back from the edge of the 1x4 to set the glass in. A piece of 1/4" luan plywood for the back and your good to go. The shadow boxes were deep enough that PWD cars just fit between the glass and the back. The boxes were about 30 inches long and about 12"-16" tall. There were two standoffs to support an arrow. The back was covered with cloth. Some were Cub Scout uniform blue but some were marron or black. All the badges, patches, and other awards were affixed to the cloth covered back. When my den bridged, the adults made arrow boards out of shelf board. We had metal plates engraved with their name, pack #, and date. The arrow was supported by 2 cup hooks. We ordered arrows from a native american who made them. We placed colored pony beads on leather thongs to represent the various ranks, arrow points, etc and then tied some feathers to the end of the leather thong. The thongs were tied to the arrow. I purchased a shadow box from the scout store to display his patches and awards. If we were doing it over, I prefer having one shadow box for the arrow, PWD cars and awards. I can see where over time where things may get seperated and lost. With everything in one shadowbox, it is all contained.

The Florida Sea Base web page has a link so you can add your information. http://www.bsaseabase.org/staff/index.html Facebook has a link http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=65346970643 2010 is just around the corner and now is your chance to participate.

2010 Florida Sea Base is having a staff reunion. My sister worked on staff in 1980-81 and was contacted based on a facebook entry. I do not have any specifics other than there is a planning meeting in October to plan the "event" to be held in 2010. The event is not planned so there is NO information about where, when, what, how, cost, etc. That will all come from the planning meeting. If you were a staff member of Florida Sea Base anythime over the last 29 years, the reunion staff are looking for you. They are also looking for pictures of the base and activities to show the history. I was not a staffer but took a barefoot cruise in 1979 while it was still named Floria Gateway to High Adventure. The camp was renamed in 1980 to Florida Seabase when they bought the property. I will suggest the reunion director post here with details as they develop.

2/3 of the world is water but swimming should not be required? My father in law does not know how to swim. He is afraid to walk out on a pier because he might fall off. Boats in all their shapes, sizes, and uses are of no joy to him. I think swimming should be required skill in elementary school and every person on the planet should be taught swimming. The point of requirements is so boys LEARN new skills. Knots and ropes are my friend. I learned the basics while taking pioneering merit badge 30 years ago. Since then I have studied and use knots. This past weekends troop campout the scouts found the tub of rope and make a cargo net type of structure about 4 feet off the ground tied to half a dozen trees. Scouts came and went and worked on it for an hour or so. They improved it, took it down and moved it, and tried again. They piled 12 boys in a net approximately 6 feet in diameter. The boys created something that filled some need. They worked together without direction from adults. They made a space to go and be with friends to revel in an accomplishment. The troop has 3 of the broom handle hiking staves from the scout store. At every campout, they must lash the 3 poles into a single pole, and hoist the US flag. 4 lines must be staked out and tied with tautline hitches. They make and use a camp gadget at every campout. They use the gadget in a useful manner. It reinforces their rope and knots skills as well as flag ettiquitte. It is not a useless skill but rather a chance to show that you can accomplish something. They see knots and lashings as useful in their scouting experience. That knowledge that they can learn some new skill and use it builds confidence to learn and master other skills. It develops the inner confidence that forms "natural" leaders. The PLC decides a theme for each campout and Sat evening meal becomes a competition for the best food. Asian-Fusion, Mexican, and Seafood have been some of the themes. One patrol cooked Corn, Chicken and served it in a Coconut shell for C(Sea)food weekend. I would like to see the return of more of the traditional outdoor skills to scouting. Matchless fire starting, survival skills, orienteering, pioneering, open fire cooking. I have used those skills as a SAR volunteer. Safe handleing of knifes, axes, and saws prevents injuries and builds confidence. Where else to boys get to use "dangerous" sharp things without adults? Boys need to practice skills in a safe and trusting environment to learn trust, self reliance, and confidence.

I would say the biggest difference is Boy Led vs. Adult Led. Most other youth programs are a means to entertain the youth. Their primary goal is to distract the youth with events and activities. Adults plan and direct every aspect. What I see in the way my son's troop is run is the boys are forced to make decisions. They make decisions and then learn from the consequences. They learn how to plan outings, make schedules, and manage budgets. Yes, they learn some outdoor skills but really the outdoors is just a labratory environment away from hovering parents. Some of the events and outings could be attended by other youth groups. I was sitting in on the first years patrol meeting last week. An 11 year boy was making a schedule to ensure that the patrol would wake, make and clean up a meal, travel to a histroic site, tour the facility, make & clean up a meal, tour some more, travel back to a campsite, make and clean up another meal, review previous learned skills, build a fire, and go to bed. He explained his reasoning for the time schedule to the other patrol members who made occasional suggestions. They were contributing members to their activity. Adults were there to drive and check for unsafe activities but primarily the adults were hands off. What sports team, church group, or other organization not only allows but strongly promotes the teaching of planning, organizing and leading your own life to 11 yr olds?

The answers will probably be dependent on your local weather. In North Carolina typical winter temps are 35-50. We have one week in the teens or 20s. We get 1 inch of snow every third year. I had a red wood shirt jacket as a boy. I did not like the fact that it did not stop the wind. I deemed it completely ineffective. I now use a layereing system. Polypro or wool-polypro blend long underwear, synthetic T-shirt, poly cotton blend long sleeve shirt, fleece vest and/or jacket, wind breaker or rain jacket. Poly long johns are black, Wool-poly long johns are ash gray, T-shirts are uniform tan, long sleeve uniform shirt, vest, jacket, and wind breaker are shades of dark green. This combination packs small, and allows for adding and subtracting layers. Most of the time it is adequate.

I built the patrol box using the plans from several posts up (troop 679). It is huge and heavy. The plans call for 3/4 plywood for all four sides. I changed the two flop down sides to 1/2 inch to cut the overall weight. You better have a trailer if you plan on building more than one. They take up most of a minivan. The legs becoming carrying handles is a great idea but even so it is a massive box that is exceeding heavy empty. I put laminate on the fold down sides and the top. This way food can be easily passed from side to side over the top and cleanup is easier. I made the box for my sister and her Girl Scouts about 5 years ago. Now her youngest son is a Bear scout. My sister reports that no matter where she goes, that people come from far and near to marvel at the patrol box. The nice part of both sides folding down is one side can be prep and the other cook. Instead of the propane tree in the plans, she stores a piece of metal electrical condut with an eyebolt on one end. There are a couple of pipe clamps on the end of the patrol box. She can slide the pole into the pipe clamps and hang a lantern from the pole. It raises the lantern above eye level and illuminates both sides of the box instead of blinding people if it were simply set on top of the box. Measure your stove BEFORE you assemble the interior. My sisters stove is a hair smaller than the intended slot. 1/4 inch would have made a big difference.

The one example shows the Philmont brand and date on the side. Do you have similar options for Florida Sea Base and Northern Tier?

Dues and fundraisers are seperate in my troop. Dues are $75 a year. Fundraisers bring money into the troop. Money raised by the scouts is divided 1/3 to scout account, 1/3 to troop general fund, and 1/3 to council. Scout account can be used to pay/defray costs of camping trips and summer camp. The general fund pays for patches, badges, and troop gear. Scouting in not free. It is pay to play setup. Scouting is cheaper than my son's sport program but still costs money.

"Hope so, I know a man that would fail at trustworthy, loyal and reverent. In front of Scouts. " If I had to guess, the intent of this comment is that the persons WB should be stripped away due to actions unbecoming. This presumes that WB is an honor not a completion of a training course. Similar to removing ones college degree because they were not knowledgeable in their degree field.

I climbed Baldy in the daylight and Tooth of Time at night to watch the sunrise in '75. I agree that the tail over the seam is a tradition. It has been around since I treked 30+ years ago. Traditions are not necessarily written, they can be oral and passed from generation to generation without being written. The fact that the story is so widespread and has continued for such a long time, makes it a tradition.