resqman

Depending on length of trip, look into the 50 Miler Afoot/Afloat award. Maybe you want to have all attendees complete swimming mb class before you go? You might want to hit a lake for a practice day of canoeing to work out the kinks before you spend a week paddling. Also check out any posts regarding Northern Tier or Charles Sommers Canoe Base. Looks of good infor about canoeing

During our Webelos invitational, we always have them make their own lunch. First they build a box oven with direction from Boy Scouts. They from a foil into cookie sheet by doubling over and then bending up the sides 1/2 inch forming a lip and providing structural stability. They place a 6 inch tortilla on pan. They get 1 or 2 spoons of pizza sause from jar and spread with back of spoon. They sprinkle handfull of cheese over sause. They select pepperoni, olives, mushrooms, etc from buffet of toppings to add to their pizzas. They place their pan and pizza in a box oven they made 15 minutes earlier. A couple minutes in the box oven melts the cheese and heats the all ingredients. Tongs remove pan and pizza. Boy Scouts manage the coals for the Webelos.

Do a websearch for Box Oven. I made a box oven ahead of time for a den meeting. Had a second box and foil waiting for the lads. Split den into 2. One group lined the box with foil and stapled. The other group added 1/2 cup milk to Martha White muffin mix, stirred, poured into muffin pan and put in pre-built box oven. Added coals pre-heated in charcoal chimney. 12-14 minutes later, there were hot muffins for all to share. The first group finished their box oven so had them place store bought pre-made cookie dough on to sheet pan and bake for 12-15 minutes. The lads made an oven, mixed up ingrediants and cooked something in a 45 minute den meeting. Dump Cake Cobbler in a dutch oven is very Cub Scout friendly. Scouts open 3 cans of fruit pie filling and pour into dutch oven. Scouts open and pour a standard cake mix on top. Scouts use plastic knife to cut 1 stick of butter into pats and drop even over cake mix. Oven is placed on coals and ignored for 30 minutes. Leader checks and cooks longer as needed. Ziplock omelette. Scouts write name on quart ziplock bag with Sharpie. Scouts break 2 eggs into ziplock. Scouts spoon in fixings (cheese, diced tomatoes, diced onions, bell peppers, bacon bits, sausage crumbles, canned mushrooms, spinach, etc.) into bag. Bag is zipped up and scouts massage bag until eggs are completely and evenly scrambled. Bag is opened and them all the air burped out of bag and resealed. Bags are dropped into pot of boiling water. Wait 5-10 minutes until eggs cook. Cheese will leave eggs runny so take into account. Remove bags with tongs. Scouts eat directly from bags with spoon. Leader laddles boiling water out of pot into cups with hot chocolate. Scouts stir with same spoon. One pot meal. Griddle or large fry pan is heated over camping stove. Scouts spread butter over both sides of a slice of bread. Scouts use top of Pam spray as cookie cutter and cut a hole from a slice of bread. Bread is put on griddle/pan. Egg is broken into the hole of bread. The bread becomes toasted and the egg cooks. Some of the egg is absorbed by bread and attaches egg to bread. When one side is done, it is flipped with spatula. Other side cooks. Removed to serving plate with spatula. Also cook the cookie cutter bread centers for seperate pieces of toast. Bull's eye Breakfast. The yolk forms the center bull's eye. Then the egg white and then the toast. Also check out this forum for lots of outdoor cooking recipies and fanatics http://www.camp-cook.com/forum/

Bill Murray wore a red wool jacket in Stripes. Maybe he is the 6 member of this team

I attended a couple of roundtables a few years ago. Boring. They gave out a spirit stick to the troop with the most people in attendance. Our troop won it 4 out of 6 times when we had 3 people attend. The sprit stick had to "live" with your troop and the troop was expected to decorate it with some trinket from the monthly troop activity. The boys got tired of messing with the stick. The boys did not attend round table and could care less about some stupid stick the adults made them decorate. As a result, adult leadership attendance from our troop declined at round tables due to the spirit killer stick. Everything that was presented at round table I could get at the council web page. Nothing new at RT. The few things they did annouce were usually less than 60 days away. Our troop plans our calendar a year in advance. 60 days was too short of notice and never made it on our calendar. Why go to a boring meeting to hear about events we were not going to participate in and then have to mess around with the spirit(less) stick. Oh, the break out sessions. Mostly about troops with problems due to poor leadership. Half hr of my time wasted trying to offer suggestions to troops who either did not have enough adults to fill the all the roles or untrained leaders who would not follow the program. Recruit more and get training. Next month same problems, different troop. Boring. Training? Nah. I have taken all the training for my position. Offered to become a member of the training team who was always asking for more help. After several attempts to join the training team and no response, stop offering. How about attending to meet the requirement for Leaders Knot. I could go to RT 4 times or UoS for 1 day and meet the requirement for Leaders Knot. Waste 4 evenings or 1 day. 1 day seems much easier and less painful. What was in it for me or my troop? Nothing so I stopped going.

For adults, they usually stay home. Often loosing significant weight will resolve the need for CPAP.

Our Pack used to bridge the older boys first. The Webelos would bridge off to their new troop. Their Webelos neckers were removed and the troop necker put on. Next the Bears bridged. Their Bear neckers were removed and the Webelos necker put on. Where did the Webelos necker come from? Why the previous bridging. Keep this us for the Wolfs and Tigers. The Pack had a few extra of each rank in the box of bridging supplies because each den was a different size. The neckers are "Pack Property". You get one from the Pack. If the scout loses it, he has to provide a replacement to the pack. The Pack always has at least one slide craft project each year so we did not worry about the BSA slides with the rank on them. The boys liked making and wearing their own slides. Glue matchbox car to piece of PVC pipe in prep for pinewood derby. Buy a six pack of cars from the dollar store for a buck. A couple tubes of super glue and couple bucks of pvc pipe cut into 1 inch lenghs. Easy, cheap, fun. The leather slides available from the scout store or Tandy run about buck each. Alphabet leather stamp kit $25. Cub Scout rank stamps $4 each. Pack invests $40-$45 bucks and they can make leather slides for years to come for a $1 per scout. Great den project. Great Pack activity. Film cannisters filled with stuff and a pipe cleaner through the cannister to attach to necker. Check the web for lots of cheap easy slide projects. My son complained the neckers were hot and did not want to wear them. I carved about 2 dozen slides. I changed the arguement from "You must wear your necker" to "Which slide do you want to wear 2night?" The neckers really help with crowd control at Pack meetings. World wide neckers are the only single piece of uniform that is consistent with all scouting organizations. A necker IS scouting. Develop the habit with the cubs and it will carry through their scouting career. I am a uniform bigot and feel if you can't be bothered to wear the uniform correctly, then what else are you leaving out of the program because it is not convienent. Keep the neckers alive!

My first uniform had the red piping on the pockets. Seemed kinda silly to be able to button up the pockets. The next version of uniforms was too light in color to hide the grime of an outdoor scouting activity. I loved my red beret. I also loved the knee high socks and garters with tabs. Never really like my red wool jacket. The wind blew right through it and it was not warm at all. My Explorer Post had uniforms that looked just like the local EMT/Paramedics. We even modeled our unit patch after the local responders. We were a First Aid, Safety and Rescue oriented Post. The nylon switchbacks are very useful but they have no shape and make everyone look slovenly due to their baggy nature. I have two pair and wear them during outdoor events due to their usefulness in spite of their ugly appearance.

I have two sons. One loves sports and spends most of his free time playing sports. Made several try-out teams and advanced to a travel team with paid coaches. Practices 3-4 times a week and games every weekend within a 3 hr drive. Several times in his life he was on mulitple teams at the same time with as many as 8 practices in a week and 3 games in a weekend. Not much time left over for scouting. Scouting did not hold any appeal to him. Other son loves science, nature and scouting. No interest in sports. Since I was a DL and now an ASM, he has had to go early and stay late to every meeting. He tries out new projects, skills, and activties before I release it to the Den, Pack or Troop. My job is not to "sell" scouting to my sons. My job as a parent is to provide the opportunity for my children to be exposed to many different opportunties and encourage them to take advantage of those opportunties. If my son absolutely hates standing in the outfield baking in the sun, why wouldn't I find something more exciting for him? If my son hates sleeping on the ground in a tent and eating burn food made by other boys, why would I make him participate? Just as some adults prefer attending sporting events, others of us prefer to go hiking, camping, rock climbing, scouting. The lads are no different.

"just out of interest what type of qualification do US Scout masters require in order to take Scouts out hiking? and is there any type of permit scheme in place to authorise and show that those leading such activities are up to the job?" A travel permit must be filed with the local scout office listing the two primary adults and their BSA training, vehicle information, destination and some other details. Boy Scout Volunteer Training Requirements and Electives Please take time to read the following. This is a nutshell of Boy Scout Volunteer training. A Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster is considered to be trained after completing (1) "Boy Scout Fast Start Training," (2) "Youth Protection Training." (3) Two-part "Boy Scout Leader Basic Training" (a. New Leader Essentials and b. Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training), and (4) "Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills." Leader Specific traning is a 1 day classroom course IOLS is a weekend course where the student is presented every skill from T-1st in a weekend. Other classess are available on line and take about 1/2 each.

My oldest joined scouting at age 14 yrs 8 months in January 2007. He will be sitting for his EBOR this January. 36 months start to finish. He also played on a travel soccer team and high school team. He lead a very busy life. His goal was to complete Eagle in time to include on his college applications. He sent in some apps last week so did not quite make it. It is possible but the lad has to be committed to the goal and look for opportunities to complete requirements. When he started 3 yrs ago, I though he would quit by first class. Scouting is just not his thing. I am proud that he has gotten this far. He has grown and learned a lot. I am glad he decided to make the decision to stick with it.

Interestingly the orignial poster has already closed his account. Hit and Run.

My youngest started in Cub Scouts because I was a scout growing up. He enjoyed all the scout stuff like fire, knifes, and playing outdoors. Sports was never his thing. After 4 yrs. of him as a Cub and me a as Den Leader, we both moved on to Boy Scouts. 4 years of Boy Scouts later he stays in it because he still loves all the outdoors skills and has a set of patrol buddies he has been around since Wolf Cubs. My oldest tried Cub Scouts for a couple months. Bored to death. He went the route of sports. Played on multiple teams at the same time, travel teams, paid coaches, etc. 1st or 2nd year of high school he figured out he needed something else on his college application. He joined for the express purpose of earning Eagle. He attended as many outings and activities as needed to complete the requirements. He set a goal and will likely complete the requirements for Eagle in the next 2 months for a total of 3 years from joining Boys Scouts to Eagle. He claims he did not really enjoy most of it. But it has changed who he is and how he veiws the world. I am in scouting because my parents put me in Cub scouts. I joined Boy Scouts and had a great time. Later moved on to Explorers and had an even better time. I stayed in scouts because it made me happy. I felt a loss I could not explain for 10 years after I went to college and young adulthood. It was a lack of scouting and the commadarie of the patrol method. Joined the fire department. Close but not really what I wanted. Joined a technical rescue squad. Trained one weekend a month. Tied knots, wore uniforms, close knit group of guys working to improve our skills, ourselves, and our community. 10 years of rescue squad and my sons finally got old enough to join scouts. Quit the rescue squad and joined Boy Scouts. Sure is great to be back!

Technically the minimum amount of time it takes to earn the rank of Eagle is 21 months. 30 days for the physical fitness tracking of tenderfoot, plus the various minimum time in POR for the higher ranks. Nationals viewpoint is to complete 1st class in the first year. That only leaves Star, Life and Eagle which require 16 months of POR. I personally would not consider your soon ONLY having 6 years and a few months a problem in earning Eagle. In an active troop, he could earn his Eagle in 2 years but more likely it will take 4 years. My youngest son started as a Wolf and is 4 years into Boy Scouts. At age 14, he is a Life scout. He has only missed probably half a dozen events over the last 4 years. Scouting is fun for him and the rank is just something that happens. He is not driven to earn the rank of Eagle. He has 5 MBs, POR, and project left for Eagle. He could finish all the requirements in 6 months if he had to. Older son was never in scouts until age 14/15. Somewhere along the 1st/2nd year of high school he figured out he would need an accomplishment beyond whatever he was doing to get noticed for college. January he will have been in the troop 3 years. He has his Eagle project 3/4 complete and one remaining MB 3/4 complete. If all goes well, he will have earned Eagle by end of the year. 3 years almost exactly. He also played high school sports and travel sports during those 3 years. Some scouts take every second up until their 18th birthday to complete all the requirements to earn Eagle. Others can set goals and get things accomplished much quicker. Don't push you son into Boy Scouts just because it will give him an extra couple months to work on Eagle. The journey is the real reward for the scout. The journey is what will change him and stay with him the rest of his life. Completeing Eagle is nice but not requried by any means for him to take something away from the scouting experience.

The public perception of scouting is growing a boy into a wilderness survival expert with knot and first aid skills. They know the highest rank is Eagle and they are supposed to be impressed that a scout earned his Eagle rank. Scouting is about challenging a boy. Learning the specfic skills of knot tying, tent pitching, hiking, etc are fun to know but not terribly important in the overall scheme. The primary goal is to take boys out of their normal environment of parent and adult led activies and ask them to do new activities they have never done before. As the scout learns these new skills, he begins to develop self confidence that he can learn new things, outside of a traditional classroom dominated primarily by women. He finds that he can push his body farther, longer and harder than he though before. How often do we use knots in our daily lifes in typical surburan USA? Not very frequently. But how often will a scout have to cook a meal in his life? How often will he have to work with a group of people to accomplish a task? I have been a participant at all 3 national high adventure bases. It changes the way scouts view themselves and how they interact in the world. Not that they can hike, or paddle, or sail long distances. But because they have the inner self confidence that they KNOW deep down inside that they have been tested and they triumphed over mental and physical hardship. If they can hike, paddle, or sail for a week on their own, they can accomplish any silly little task put before them. Much of the traditional scout skills are smaller challenges that over time build the basis so the scout can be successful at larger tasks.

Our troop purchases 4 man tents. Promotes members of a patrol living together. New scouts have a couple of buddies in the tent to keep the boogie man away. Less tents the troop has to maintain for a small incremental cost per tent. Example: 5 four-man tents versus 10 two man tents. We have a few 2-man left over from years ago but they are worn and seldom used.

Rite-In-the-Rain Outdoor Journal or Spiral Notebook, and a pencil. While most boys will not think to journal during the trek, jotting down a few memories each night just before bed will be a cherished item when older. A thermorest and good boots are the only 2 things anyone really needs at Philmont. Anything more is just weight you are lugging around. I would have like to have more pictures from the trail. A $100 buys a decent digital camera. A 2 gig SD card allows you to store 400+ pictures at lower resolution setting. Most digital cameras even provide video. 2 sets of lithuim batteries would get you through a 10 day trek. Camera $100-$125. SD card $15-$25 Four lithium AA batteries about $18.

I recommend color coding all the equipment in each patrol box. Colored electrical tape is usually satisfactory. Some items do better with a sqirt of spray paint. Mark EVERYTHING in the kit the same color. Each patrol a different color. We issue out a patrol box with everything marked a single color and every patrol attempts to return a rainbow colored box at the end of a campout. Label each tent and rainfly. Keep a signout chart so when a patrol checks out a tent, you have a scout name. At the end of the weekend, they should return it clean and dry or at the next meeting clean and dry. If no scout name or tent numbering system, you don' know who has the missing equipment or what equipment is missing. For some reason we need to have a physical inventory about every 6 months because stuff seems to float away.

I am an Eagle scout and treked Philmont. I was a member of a wilderness Search and Rescue team. I was a member of a Rope rescue team. I was an EMT. I can camp, find direction, tie knots and perform first aid. There were things I re-learned or key points to stress when working with Boy Scouts became apparent when I took IOLS. I probably could have tested out if I knew at the time there was such an option. IOLS is not designed to make adults proficient with the skills after progressing from T-SC-FC in a weekend. It is an introductory course. Part of the weekend is also sharing experiences between different troop leaders. Part of the weekend is changing the mindset of adults to think about the program and how it is delivered. Yeah, I know how "I" select a campsite. But if I had to explain that to a scout, would I highlight the same points that are in the scout handbook? Shouldn't I be following the reference material available to the boys? We have several ASMs who came to the troop with 20+ years military experience. They can hike, camp, and outdoorsman with the best of them. But they also carry the miliary method of doing those actions. Sometimes, the military method is not the same method the Boy Scout Handbook describes. And for good reason. Scouts camp for a very different reason than the military. Tanks are seldom a Leave No Trace type of activity. The miliary has different aims and purposes compared to scouting. The adult leadership in our troop helps share skills and information with new ASMs until they are able to complete their coursework. Often by the time, they can get into a course, they have been camping with the troop for 6 months and have a very good understanding of the basic skills. Even so it helps to indoctrinate them into the National BSA viewpoint of outdoor skills. I would suggest all ASMs take IOLS, even if they have adequate outdoor skills.

"But not being about to Salute the flag as usual is wrong. I think that that is exclusion.. not what I want any boy to feel in my troop. In the field, do they wear 1000% uniforms for morning and evening Flags? I know at Summer camp we do, but a weekend camp out?" There is 1 uniform. All or nothing. If you are not in uniform, then you cannot use the scout salute. You are dressed as a civilian and show respect to the flag the way a civilin would, with your hand over your heart. Stop making excuses for not wearing the uniform. If you will not wear it fully and correctly, then don't bother at all. Yes, our troop expects the scouts to travel in "full" uniform to and from campouts. Once at the campout, it is suggested they remove the uniform shirt to limit dirt and damage. Fully half the troop wears the pants all weekend. All adult leaders wear the full uniform all weekend long. Scouts are expected to wear the "full" uniform Sunday for Scouts Own service just prior to boarding the vehicles for the return trip. If you don't have your uniform on Friday in the parking lot, you are not allowed to go on the campout. Parents have rushed home and back to complete a uniform for errant scouts. $100 for my sons uniform 4 years ago. 50 troop meetings, 10 campouts, 1 week of summer camp a year for 4 years. He has gotton $100 worth of wear out of his uniform. He tore the seat of his pants 2 years ago. Ironed a patch on the inside and still wearing them. Shirt is getting a little tight but his brother is aging out in about 8 months. No need to buy a new shirt when his brothers only has 3 years wear. The only special care my sons have take of their uniform is wadding it up and throwing it on the floor after every wearing. It gets machine washed and dryed weekly. My sons are the ones who are the ones who comeback from an outing covered in mud holding wriggling rodents, reptiles, and insects. No problems. Wear the uniform. Once you develop a troop culture of wearing the "full" uniform to EVERY event, there is no questions from the scouts and incoming scouts understand that part of scouting is wearing the uniform.

"The full dress uniform is for "show". I'd wear it to some activities at Scout camp, for our evening meetings, etc. For anything else (like camping, hiking, any other rough activity), I'd wear something else, like swapping out the scout uniform pants for jeans, wearing ordinary socks, etc. " Phooey. The uniform is for wearing. I wore the zip off pants every day for 8-10 hours a day for a week while at Northern Tier the last month. The pants are at least 2 years old and have been worn on every camping trip for the last couple of years. Wear them to troop meetings, campouts, and all other outings. No holes, no problems. Did get a little bit of pilling on the legs where I rubbed them with a canoe paddle for 8 hours a day for 7 days. The other adult on my crew also wore his zip-off uniform pants during the entire trip. No problems. I wear my full uniform on campouts. 4 years as Den Leader and 4 yrs as ASM. The only damage is a small hole I snagged in the shirt getting something out of the car trunk. 3 weeks at summer camp, 1 week at Norther Tier, weekly den, pack, and troop meetings for 7 years, campouts, hiking, camping, etc. Just fine. A little chilly during the Feb campout but no problems. Dont be afraid to wear the uniform. The ASMs in our troop wear the full uniform at all events. No problems.

Older son plays sports. Uniforms for his team cost more than a scout uniform. Team replaces uniforms every 2 years with a slightly different uniform. Old uniform cannot be worn since it doesnt match. Cant be worn to practice because different practice uniforms. Just throw it away. Scout son has been wearing his scout uniform for 3-4 years. Every meeting, outing, camping trip, high adventure, etc. Starting to pill in a few wear areas. No need to "upgrade" to new version of scout uniform just because a newer version is available. $100-$125 over 4 years vs. >$250 every two years. Scout uniforms get more use for longer periods of time and cost less. No comparison. Outgrown uniforms can be sold to smaller, younger, newer scouts to help recoup some of the cost. Scout uniforms are a great deal.

"Resqman: Good corrective re ARC. You're right, the "Roles and Missions" are not very similar. However, ARC is what came to mind first when I was writing. (Idly: While I could never see this happening, I do wonder: If ARC allowed disaster training or deployment for

I have been an ARC volunteer, volunteer firefighter, EMT, and rescue squad member. I am also a ASM and Eagle scout. What the ARC does and the responsibilty is has to the public is in no way is similar to what BSA does. The SM is the CEO of a scout troop. He does not have to know how to tighen every bolt on every product coming down the assembly line. He has to set the course for the ship and hire the right people with the right skills to run the factory. The better people skills he has the more likely he will succeed. Having better outdoor skills helps him to better understand the potential issues the troop may have as well as to identify the better qualified people (ASMs) who work with the scouts in the field. BSA training is really an introduction to outdoor skills. A one weekend course (IOLS) is not going to make anyone an experienced outdoorsman. It is going to open their eyes to the possibilities and hopefully encourage them to explore additional training and hands on practice. It is occasionally discussed here should there be advanced outdoor skills training cources offered by BSA. The one train of thought is that IOLS covers everything that is expected of the scouts and there is no need to train beyound that level and the scouts with more desire can explore the areas on their own. THe alternative is that the adults are there for safety and should have a deeper understanding and skill depth to offer to the interested scouts as well as be able to salvage activities that go awry in the field. Taking scouts outdoors is just a method to get them out of their normal environment so they have to challenge themselves. The ultimate goal is not to create the worlds next survialist but rather to force the scouts to learn something/anything new and develop self confidence. Doing so in a safe and fun manner is important. Hiking 5 miles into the wilderness with only the equipment in a daypack and spending a week is a challenge. Driving to the state park in town with a trailer load of equipment is also a challenge for most 11-14 yr olds used to playing video games. The first year the scouts are learning how to cook an egg. Really. Kids have no idea how to open an egg and cook one. They have no idea that they need to bring rain gear to every outing. They have no idea that fire is hot or knifes are sharp. It does not take a world class wilderness and survival expert to teach basic cooking skills to the scouts. If the SM is doing his job, he is selecting adults who have at least basic outdoor skills and are willing to learn. Some are lucky to have adults volunteer who have extensive outdoor skills. I have been a participant at Philmont, Florida Sea Base, and Northern Tier. The scouts needed to know only basic stuff. Pitch a tent, cook your food, follow a basic map in the wilderness, handle wet weather. Survival was very far away. Experienced adults with extensive outdoors training would be helpful but is not necessary. The public thinks that scouting is about creating a wilderness survivalist with First Aid, Firebuilding, and Knot tying skills. BSA thinks scouting is about developing personal self worth, confidence, and leadership that just happens to take place outdoors. I personally like outdoor skills and practice on a regular basis. The other ASMs in my troop are experienced outdoorsman. The troop camps at least once a month, twice this month, so everyone gets a plenty of opportunity to practice and upgrade their skills.

I found it interesting you listed "Adult leaders may not be the best all the time" as a CON of scouting but not sports. Son has played club travel sports for last 5 years. Paid coaches, multiple practices a week, games each weekend within 3hr drive. Players at this level are regularly scouted for college teams in preference over "just" high school players. The coaches are very knowledgeable about the technical aspects of the game, its rules, and various techniques. Not always the best motivator, speaker, or ethical person. Leadership training was something left off the list. Scouts not only provides the opportunity to lead, but has training programs and materials that is age appropriate to teach leadership as well as try it out. Not just for the team captain but for all members of the team. Sports does not teach leadership, it teaches how to play sports. Team captains are not taught leadership, they are either elected or naturally have the basics. While my son is not a team captain, the captains come to my son asking how to lead the team. Maybe parts of YLT did reach his brain after all. Exposure to a broader view of the world would be a PRO for scouting. Scouts regularly travel around their home state and wider in search of adventure and learning opportunities. National high adventure bases, National Jamborees, and even local camping trips take the boys out of their normal neighborhood and show them samples of the world they would not have otherwise visited. Usually scouts not only drive by the site but get out and tour through it, forcing them to become involved. Sports occasionally travels at the lower levels. Even the so called travel teams simply travel to the playing field/arena. Little time is usually available to tour the local sites, history, or adventure of the area. I can tell you about way too many sports fields and the nearest eatery but not much else for those trips.