RememberSchiff

Thanks for checking as I don't FB. If National did not inform Mr. Stinnett while he served in either position, I can understand his quitting and if he does take legal action, the BSA would likely revoke his membership anyway. Given his Scouting history, I suspect he still cares deeply about Scouting and Philmont plus he is an attorney. IMHO, sending him an email thanking him for his service to Scouting and asking him to save Philmont for future generations is worth our time and effort. Mark Stinnett 1975-1978: Camp Director and Ranger (Philmont) (from FB https://www.facebook.com/mark.stinnett.587) 2009: first recipient Distinguished Service Award, Philmont Staff Association (from lawfirm profile ) 2011: This year, Silver Sage Awards were presented to David Caffey, Edward Pease and Mark Stinnett. Mark Stinnett worked at Philmont four years in the 1970s and has served as a former PSA President and the longest-tenured editor of High Country. He has also served on the Philmont Ranch Committee, the Program and Risk Management Task Force and the Health Lodge Task Force. Stinnett has also chaired the BSA Outdoor Programs Committee, the Fieldbook Task Force and the Biannual National Outdoor Conference. from PhilNews, August 11, 2011 Civic Involvement (from lawfirm profile ) Boy Scouts of America – National Council Chairman, National Outdoor Programs Support Committee Chairman, Fieldbook Task Force Chairman, National Outdoor Conference Chairman, Camping & Properties Implementation Task Force, National Membership Standards Study Initiative Member, National Camp Accreditation Committee Member, Outdoor Adventures Committee Member, Philmont Ranch Committee Boy Scouts of America – Philmont Scout Ranch Chairman, Program Task Force, Philmont Ranch Committee Chairman, Strategic Planning Task Force Member, Philmont Health Lodge Task Force Instructor, Risk Management Training for Camp Directors Boy Scouts of America – Pikes Peak Council Member, Troop 78 Committee Challenger Learning Center of Colorado Former Advisor, Aerospace Explorer Post 1986 National Eagle Scout Association Outdoor Organization Memberships: American Camp Association American Hiking Society Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics Philmont Staff Association President, 1994-1997 National Director, 1990-1993 Editor, High Country Magazine, 1998-2008 Chairman, Presidents Committee, 2005-present Contributing Editor, High Country Magazine, 2009-present My $0.02,

In 1921 two hand-picked Scouts, James Marr and Norman Mooney, accompanied Sir Ernest Shackleton on his Rowett Expedition to Antarctica. In 2021 Kent Scouts plan to commemorate the 1921 expedition by sending a team of ten scouts - ReQuest2021 to crew Bark Europa on a journey similar to the original while undertaking research projects. Follow the Ship satellite track. I believe the USCG Eagle is also a Bark, likely @mashmaster knows. https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeenshire/1894433/kemnay-scouts-selected-for-antarctic-expedition-100-years-since-shackleton/

Good idea,

We are not at bankruptcy yet, there is no court involvement, no Chapter 11 trustee overseeing and reorganizing us, the debtor. Seven months ago, National secretly extended their credit line by $446 million to spend as they wish, though presumably for liability insurance. Not legally necessary? to discuss this action before or after with the Philmont Ranch Committee or the Waite Phillips family and maybe not the Executive Board, and certainly not the members. I doubt former BSA President Rex Tillerson was informed. As Philmont Scout Ranch Committee Member and attorney Mr. Stinnett wrote. “The first point of the Scout Law is ‘A Scout is trustworthy.’ I am distressed beyond words at learning that our leaders apparently have not been.” So $446 million more for National to spend as they wish and faced with the loss of that control and executive job loss when bankruptcy reorganization arrives, will the money be used for insurance or/and pay raises, pensions, severance packages, and golden parachutes? Merry Christmas. “...Waite Philips magnificent gift has now been put at risk.” Save Philmont for future generations. Please contact Mark Stinnett and ask him to take legal measures to reverse this “betrayal” of agreements made with the Phillips family. mstinnett@stmmlaw.com My $0.02,

The AP picked up the story ...the move dismayed a member of Philmont’s oversight committee, who says it violates agreements made when the land was donated in 1938. The BSA disputed his assertion. Top BSA officials signed the document in March, but members of the Philmont Ranch Committee only recently learned of the development, according to committee member Mark Stinnett. In a memo sent to his fellow members, Stinnett — a Colorado-based lawyer — decried the financial maneuver and the lack of consultation with the committee. “I cannot begin to tell you how sorry I am to be the one to break this news to you,” Stinnett wrote. “The first point of the Scout Law is ‘A Scout is trustworthy.’ I am distressed beyond words at learning that our leaders apparently have not been.” “But I am even more distressed to learn that Waite Phillips’ magnificent gift has now been put at risk,” Stinnett added. … Stinnett wrote that ranch committee member Julie Puckett — a granddaughter of Waite Phillips — had urged BSA officials in recent weeks to recognize Philmont as a restricted asset based on the understandings of all parties when Phillips donated the land. “BSA management has instead stated its position that Philmont and its endowment are free and clear of restrictions and are thus theirs to take or encumber as they wish,” Stinnett wrote, depicting that stance as a “betrayal” of agreements made with the Phillips family. The Boy Scouts disputed Stinnett’s assertion, saying nothing in the agreements with the Phillips family prevented the ranch from being used as collateral. more at source: https://apnews.com/277936941c824110ab626b9f3a1e68de https://www-1.kansas.com/news/business/article237678609.html

Previously discussed in My last background check used the 2012 form which was ok not great. I still believe since we pay for background check report at registration, we should receive a copy. 1. 2012 explicitly stated who the CRA was (Lexis-Nexis) and their contact information. 2018 form - not specified, National can use anybody. 2. 2012 scope of background check is detailed and specifically states "will not include credit record checks or motor vehicle record checks". 2018 - can procure additional consumer report(s), which may include criminal background check(s), during my volunteer relationship without providing additional disclosures or obtaining additional authorizations. 3. 2012 no mention on sharing/selling information. 2018 "I consent to and authorize the Company to share this information with Company’s current or prospective clients, customers, others with a need to know, and/or their agents for business reasons (e.g., to place me in certain positions, work sites, etc.). 2012 (courtesy of mds3d) NOTICE TO APPLICANT REGARDING BACKGROUND CHECK In order to safeguard the youth in our program, the Boy Scouts of America will procure consumer reports on you in connection with your application to serve as a volunteer, and the Boy Scouts of America may procure additional consumer reports at any time during your service as a volunteer in order to evaluate your continued suitability for volunteer service. The Boy Scouts of America has contracted with LexisNexis, a consumer reporting agency, to provide the consumer reports. LexisNexis may be contacted by mail at LexisNexis, 1000 Alderman Drive, Alpharetta, GA 30005 or by telephone at 800-845-6004. The consumer reports may contain information bearing on your character, general reputation, personal characteristics, and mode of living. The types of information that may be obtained include but are not limited to Social Security number verification, sex offender registry checks, criminal records checks, inmate records searches, and court records checks. The information contained in these consumer reports may be obtained by LexisNexis from public record sources. The consumer reports will not include credit record checks or motor vehicle record checks. The nature and scope of the consumer reports are described above. Nonetheless, you are entitled to request a complete and accurate disclosure of the nature and scope of such reports by submitting a written request to LexisNexis at the address listed above. Additional notices for applicants in California, New York, Minnesota, and Oklahoma are provided. APPLICANT’S ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND AUTHORIZATION I have carefully read this notice and authorization form and I hereby authorize the Boy Scouts of America and LexisNexis to procure a consumer report, which as described above will include information relating to my criminal history as received from reporting agencies. I understand that this information will be used to determine my eligibility for a volunteer position with the Boy Scouts of America. I also understand that as long as I remain a volunteer, additional consumer reports may be procured at any time. I understand that if the Boy Scouts of America chooses not to accept my application or to revoke my membership based on information contained in a consumer report, I will receive a summary of my rights under the Fair Credit Reporting Act and contact information for the reporting agency, LexisNexis.

My experience too. Seems too late for Council to check MBC names after the merit badges have been awarded (and cannot be taken away) and the scout's Eagle application is in front of them.

As if the negative feedback comments of the on another forum regarding the following are not clear. “To the extent permitted by applicable law, I hereby consent to and authorize the Boy Scouts of America and/or its subsidiaries, affiliates, other related entities, successors, and/or assigns (the “Company”) to procure consumer report(s), which may include criminal background check(s) and/or investigative consumer report(s), on my background from a consumer reporting agency (“CRA”) or from an investigative consumer reporting agency (“ICRA”), as described in the Background Check Disclosure (which I have received separately from the Company), as well as these Additional Disclosures & Background Check Authorization. I have reviewed and understand the information, statements, and notices in the Background Check Disclosure, as well as these Additional Disclosures & Background Check Authorization. My authorization remains valid throughout my volunteer relationship with the Company, such that, to the extent permitted by applicable law, I agree Company can procure additional consumer report(s), which may include criminal background check(s), during my volunteer relationship without providing additional disclosures or obtaining additional authorizations. Except as otherwise prohibited by applicable law, I consent to and authorize the Company to share this information with Company’s current or prospective clients, customers, others with a need to know, and/or their agents for business reasons (e.g., to place me in certain positions, work sites, etc.). I understand that, if I am selected for a volunteer position, a consumer report will have been conducted on me.” ..The problem was in the fine print of it." By signing, volunteers are agreeing for BSA to obtain a consumer report to check things like a criminal background and driving background. The Jennings are in agreement with that. Other information that can be collected, though, like character, general reputation, personal characteristics and mode of living, they say is too much. There's also concern BSA could check personal financial reports. "It doesn't specifically say that they will go after your financial records, but they could," Emily said. And, if it did, who would have access to it and would it be shared? The authorization form, if signed, gives consent to BSA to share the information with current or prospective clients, customers or others with a "need to know" business reason. Sources close to BSA say the information will be used solely for criminal background checks and will not include credit checks or inquiries about living conditions or personal reputations. Jeff Moe, the scout executive with Simon Kenton Council, says information would only be shared internally. "The authorization to share information merely allows our national organization to share the results with local councils," Moe said. "The BSA does not sell private information of its members." BSA says federal and state laws dictate what is stated in the disclosure forms required from volunteers. Because of that, the Jennings are prepared to walk away from the organization they love. "That's the way it was presented," Mike said. "It was an ultimatum; sign this document or we can't renew your charter. As a volunteer, I need to have some protection of my privacy and I need to know what my data's being used for, where it's being stored, who can access it and there's nothing spelled out in that [authorization] document that gives me that comfort level." https://www.10tv.com/article/some-boy-scouts-volunteers-say-new-background-checks-are-too-invasive-2019-nov What the Background Check Disclosure states (or does not state) and the BSA (National and Council) explanations are not consistent.

Shouldn't be necessary as certainly (sarcasm) Council checked the name back when the blue card was processed. The trustworthy word of the SM and Scout should be enough without a Congressional investigation. IMO, the Eagle Application should be just be 1 page. My $0.02,

Bottom up and scout-driven. All Scouting is local. Provide an adventurous, scout-run scouting program in our units and our enthused scouts will spread the word. My $0.02,

...On Veterans' Day evening, Cub Master Matt led the group by flashlight through the cemetery to the grave of Nicholas Cutinha, a local Vietnam Veteran that was killed in battle on March 2nd, 1968, and was posthumously awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. Matt asked the Scouts about the word reverence, and had a conversation about how reverence is a higher form of respect that goes beyond simply standing when the Nations flag walks by, or behaving in church while people worship. “Reverence is about getting under the surface of simply showing respect, and really understanding why that respect is deserved, no matter who you are or what you believe in,” said Matt. Matt then talked about the story of Nicholas Cutinha, what Nicholas did in the final minutes of his life to save his fellow soldiers from certain death, and how the survivors of that day come to LaBelle every March 2nd to pay their respects, and show reverence. Adult leader Mike Favara commented “you could hear a pin drop during the story, the Scouts were totally engaged.” https://caloosabelle.com/human-interest/a-cub-scout-is-reverent/

In the last two paragraphs, you both seem to agree whatever it is that you are arguing about should not be in a Scouting forum? Common ground! So...do you really want a Moderator to step in and tell you to stop or can the civil discussion mentioned in the OP proceed? @desertrat77 @MattR @John-in-KC

Travel bidet? I'm still working on adopting the metric system, but thanks for the Christmas gift suggestion for Mrs. Schiff.

Instead of viewing it as reducing bureaucracy at the Council and National levels, view it as restoring TRUST in unit volunteers. Train'em, trust 'em and maybe even treat them as adults. Some thoughts... Units can easily tract advancement themselves either with the old paper scout advancement record or whatever software they are using. No need for a National database. No need to send Eagle workbooks to National either (what do they do with them?) Actually the whole Eagle workbook should be replaced with just a signoff sheet and one page project description. Units can also discreetly decide alternate advancement requirements on their own. No need to violate the privacy of special needs families who are being asked to send documented requests to strangers on a Council Advancement Committee. My $0.02,

"The properties of the ranch secure a mortgage from JPMorgan Chase." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philmont_Scout_Ranch#cite_note-2 That was updated fast.

Gotta wonder, will the (new) OA open casinos at Philmont and Summit?

...and for recharter, National wants to do credit background checks of us?

So signed in March, 2019, was this discussed at the National Annual Meeting last May, 2019? Seems rather important...

Elon Musk? Steve Ballmer? Kevin Plank?

So at a quick glance of OP document, this is rob Philmont to pay Bechtel?

Nov 4: "Within the next several weeks, the National Executive Committee will identify an interim leader for the national organization. " Scoutingnewsroom , National Leadership: https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/about-the-bsa/national-leadership/ lists four Assistant CSE's as follows: John Mosby — Development. Al Lambert – National Director of Outdoor Adventures, Patrick Sterrett – National Director of Field Service Mark Logemann – National Director of Support Services Seemingly the above are the leading candidates for "interim CSE" , but another person may be selected.

Yes, imagine if a credit card and email address become required to join...billed monthly with automatic renewal

Maybe the old Google, but a Scout is a friend to all. https://www.sciencealert.com/how-dead-girl-paris-ended-up-most-kissed-lips-in-history-l-inconnue-de-la-seine-resusci-anne-cpr-annie-death-mask

Came across this tale embedded in a business story: ...At the time I was the Scoutmaster of Troop 3, at First Presbyterian Church. On this night I had arranged for a Registered Nurse to come in and teach the first aid merit badge. After we completed the required material, the nurse asked the group if they had any questions. Keep in mind we are talking about a group of 13- and 14-year old boys. These meetings can take on a life of their own at times, so I was prepared. Naturally the scouts’ questions tended to be about anything but first aid. There were questions about everything from car wrecks to riding in the hospital helicopter. As we were winding down, one of the scouts asked about emergency medical procedures that could be done in the field. The nurse thought for a minute and then responded, “I believe a doctor could talk you through a tracheotomy with the crudest of implements … with one very important exception! Unless it is my tracheotomy!” https://www.djournal.com/news/business/david-henson-nurses-boy-scouts-and-the-entrepreneurial-perspective/article_6cf41ad5-00d8-5f5a-a037-5f19778e2189.html Please add your stories.