RememberSchiff

Yeah, I could easily be wrong as this my recollection of a talk long ago. I'm hoping some forum members come forward, better informed than I. Here's some references http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_F._Smith Says Joseph F. Smith was Church President until he died of pneumonia in 1918. Scouting became the the official youth program of his Church in 1913. http://www.mormonwiki.com/Stability_and_Growth "...He (President Joseph F. Smith) was a huge advocate for education and in 1912, the seminary program began in Salt Lake City. The program provided weekday religious education for Mormon teenagers and still continues today. He also oversaw the Church's adoption of the Boy Scout program..." In Scouting, we often lose the reason why changes were made (whether they appear good or bad) - Scout Law, "Be Square", neckerchiefs, red berets,... (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

My understanding is a year after the BSA started, our Scout Law diverged from the 8-point British Scout Law to reflect the American values of 1911. Also at this time, the LDS or the Mormon Church under Joseph Smith began to study Scouting program for their youth membership. One of the points added to the Scout Law was "reverent". All scouts are required to follow the Scout Law and since atheists were considered not reverent, they would be ineligible for membership. The Scout Law has remained unchanged and some would say we are not in sync with the American values of today. America is now a more secular and maybe a more tolerant society than it was in 1911. Other scout organizations such as Great Britain and Canada have changed their Scout Law and program to be more inclusive of others. But in the US, only a few charter organizations such as Quaker and Reformed Jewish accept atheists in the scout units. Kudu and Merlyn are likely more informed than I. You asked an interesting historical question that is not easily researched as you found out. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

PACK15NISSAN, my opinion. Sounds like you have a full plate. Webelos only lasts for a year and a half or so. Spend that time getting your Webelos ready for Boy Scouts. Get them interested in Boy Scouts. Take your den and visit troop meetings, join in on their outings, definitely get them outside - camping, hiking, Klondike, etc., make some connections - find Boy Scout leaders and Boy Scout who can help out here and there with your Webelos activities, challenge a Boy Scout troop to a pasta bridge building contest. Have fun. Crossing as many Webs to Scouts as possible is how you can best give back scouts. Check your district to see if there are merit badge counselors for Drafting, Architecture, and Engineering. If so, then there is time after crossover for you to become a merit badge counselor ('Heh, no wonder your Webs beat the scouts in a pasta bridge building contest.') A great merit badge counselor helps make a merit badge popular.

Yes. Time involved, depends on the merit badge and what you and scouts bring to it but usually 3 to 5 one hour meetings. Also some councils/districts allow you to limit what troops you serve which greatly reduces demands. You control your availability. Some counselors can only hold one or two merit badge courses a year due to their life schedule or seasonal constraints. You do not have to drop everything and hold a merit badge course and you can tell scouts 'Sorry but I cannot work on the merit badge this month, please call me back later or contact another counselor'.

Philly is just using this issue as a way to collect more revenue. Yeah it annoys me when a perceived informed source is giving misinformation (I was thinking of a policeman giving me directions to the Reading terminal, not to anyone in this forum ) So I'm not sure there is a freedom of speech issue here. File the application, pass the test (buy the answers in advance from the dose guys in Joisee), and continue on with "Yeah da Liberty Bell was made down da Philly naval yard. Nows National Treasure was filmed over der. Nicholas Cage ate a hoagie right where we are sitting" ... whatever you want, this is Philly where we boo even Santa Claus. I don't understand how these private tour guides stay in business. The tours by the National Park Service at Independence Mall are free, and the Park Rangers are far better informed. Ya pays your money ...

Nope. The Eagle Candidate identifies himself as a scout when he first meets the benefiting organization. He is a representative of the BSA and hopefully one of our best representatives, but more importantly he is also representing himself - it is his neck on the line and not the BSA. He may decide to wear his uniform during parts of his project not involving fund raising. He does not represent the benefiting organization, he is performing HIS scout service project for them. One part of the Guide to Safe Scouting that applies to his scout service project is Youth Member Behavior Guidelines, Member Responsibilities "All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit." In short, he's expected to act like a scout while performing HIS scout service project; he is a representative of the BSA. If he fails to meet this expectation, the District Eagle Board will likely reject his Eagle application. It's that simple.

Easy mistake to make, after all, the Sportsman title page (p455 in the Webelos Handbook) has a photo of a scout drawing a bow! You would think Archery would be included.

When in Cubs, first try borrowing outdoor gear from a Scout troop (along with a couple of their scouts to erect flies). Maybe you could borrow some E-Z Up or similar canopies from Pack families? Buying gear obviously costs $$$, then there is the storage and upkeep.

Yes Ed good memory, one recent thread discussed this for 11 pages before being locked. Uniforms - "Eagle Candidates wearing uniform at ELSP" http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=191183 Dustoff, I suggest you ask these questions to your District Eagle Board.

Some differences 1. I presume Bob did not have to identify himself as a Scouter before considering that activity as an Eagle candidate would. 2. His appearance was not to fulfill a Scout rank requirement. 3. His appearance did not require that he previously meet with Scoutmaster with a written plan which was then reviewed and approved by Scoutmaster. 4. Same as 2 but reviewed and approved by Troop Committee 5. Same as 3 but reviewed and approved by District Eagle Board. While there are stated places and activities that wearing a scout uniform is inappropriate, an Eagle Scout service project is not one of them. While not prohibited nor required, wearing the scout uniform during the Eagle Scout project helps the scout and program. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Pretty vague requirements. We looked at the Interpreter requirements long ago, rolled our eyes, and all wondered if our scouts could even qualify for the "English" strip? I think more specifics should be added to reflect likely conversations among scouts from different countries at a Jamboree - "Do you want to trade patches?", "Where is the nearest latrine?", "Is that miles or kilometers?", "Do you have girls in your unit?" ... Today, I suspect our scouts could earn ,if it exists, "TEXT MESSAGE" or is that "WU?" (What's up?). I wonder if there were "igPay atinLay" or "Kookie Talk" strips?

Don't know about Little League, Cal Ripken, Pop Warner, soccer, etc., but Boy & Girls and 4-H are larger and growing. 2007 - Boy's & Girls Club 4.6 million youth, coed, 2007 - 4H, 6.5 million members, coed

Thank you for working through this with the scout. I hope he and his family thanks you at some point. What would I have done? I would have added to the drama, spelled out the situation, and had scout plan his next steps during BOR. Maybe you did this. Hold the BOR in a room where the wall clock has been set 10-15 minutes ahead. Start later or run the meeting longer (that was a Friday night) and ask scout to develop HIS plan to be a leader in troop and work towards Eagle in the next 6 months (I would provide calendar and other reference material). This would be reviewed by an openly skeptical Board. Have some discussion over it's merits, give him feedback, glance at clock 11:56, argue some more 11:58, 12:01... (yeah, I miss "24") Then the Board Chairman says 'Well I think we are all agreed. Are we past the deadline? Say, that clock is wrong by my watch. This time we will go by my watch, but the District Eagle Board will not be as flexible. They believe that failure to plan, does not constitute an emergency on their part, consequently they only meet at preset times during the year. As we have demonstrated tonight, the adults in this troop are here to help you, but your future success lies with you completing your plan. Tomorrow is a new day and a good time to start. By your plan we are expecting you in front of this Board in December. Good luck.'

Hmmm size, I have been curious about the number of employees in councils, especially as I read that councils now have spokespersons, marketing specialists, media liaisons,... I remember when far fewer "employees" served a greater number of scouts. My old council office staff (two) back then was part-time and handled all the badges (Scout stores did not exist yet, families shopped at local dept stores for uniforms and other scout stuff.)

Well I am thankful that there are still American-made motorcycles

I have been a scout leader in four different units and webmaster for three, here's my $0.02 1. Do not upload to Youtube, Facebook, MySpace, etc. unless you have no issue with scouts navigating those sites. Alot of easily accessible, inappropriate material there. Even stop-motion, LEGO animation on Youtube looks fine but then surprise, the soundtrack includes vulgarity. These sites typically ask "registered users" to flag inappropriate content, yeah that works - NOT. I know the BSA, councils, and units have leaped onto posting to these very popular sites but I don't think they gave it due consideration. Granted some will embed a Youtube video so a scout does not have to go directly to the Youtube website, but the Youtube watermark is on the video as an invite. Maybe someday, there will be a SAFE social network site for scouts to post photos, video, etc. 2. Photos are great but place them in a password-protected area and change password every so often. At first, I had photos publicly available, but as I checked the access log to my website, I discovered some porn IP's hitting the photo galleries and then there was Google which thinks it has a God-given right to catalog all images whether you block them or not. I digress, assuming you have parental permission to post photos, let everyone sleep easier by password protecting access to photos. 3. Do not identify scouts directly or indirectly in any photos - no first name, no initials, no Charlie's son,... Those that need to know already know. 4. A scout unit can operate just fine without a website. You mentioned your unit has gone 4 years without a website, has it suffered for lack of a website. Anyway my $0.02

"See you at camp on Sunday at noon". Let parents work out the transportation details themselves.

Yeah, you will annoy some either way. What I decided in past, if the scout is in the full camp uniform (even if it's just a Camp t-shirt) then scout salute, otherwise out-of-uniform then hand over heart. Also, in your situation with ball caps, there are fewer problems with Cubs if they keep their caps on their heads for a flag ceremony as taking caps off is asking for trouble.

Camp Augustine near Grand Island, Nebraska has tornado shelters. They were built back in the 80's in the aftermath of tornado destruction. The nearby Girl Scout Camp Cosmopolitan does as well. Both camps have shelters built into hillsides.

The Omaha World Herald http://www.omaha.com/ has detailed coverage including several eyewitness text accounts, a log of update reports from yesterday, and a gripping 14 sec video of tornado - you hear the warning siren and 'There ain't no scouts up there.'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25107608/ LITTLE SIOUX, Iowa - An apparent tornado struck a Boy Scout camp in western Iowa on Wednesday, and local media reported four deaths at the camp, as well as many injuries. A dispatch operator with the Harrison County Sheriff's Office said first responders were at the camp site and more were en route to the camp, located about one hour north of Omaha. Arli Hasbrouck, a spokeswoman for the Boy Scouts of America's Mid-American Council in Omaha, confirmed for the Des Moines Register that four Scouts were killed in the tornado, but she had no numbers of how many were injured. "That's all we know at this point," she told the Register. "We've got lots of Scouters on their way to help." Terry Landsvork, a meteorologist in Valley, Neb., said law enforcement officials had called the weather service Wednesday evening and reported the deaths and injuries at the Little Sioux Scout Ranch in Iowa's Loess Hills. "Last we heard, hospitals in Omaha had an alert for 40 inbound injuries," Landsvork said. David Hunt, chairman of the Mid-America Boy Scout Council's Goldenrod District, which covers several eastern Nebraska counties, said the camp was hosting a leadership development course for boys. Hunt said he didn't know specifically where the boys were from but thought they would have come from eastern Nebraska and western Iowa. The 1,800-acre ranch is about 15 minutes east of Interstate 29, near Little Sioux. Its amenities include hiking trails through narrow valleys and over steep hills, a 15-acre lake and a rifle range. The tornado touched down as Iowa's eastern half grappled with flood conditions in several of its major cities. The storm threatened to stretch Iowa's emergency response teams even further. A meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Omaha also told the Des Moines Register that the tornado went through at about 6:35 p.m., about 12 minutes after the warning went out. This breaking news story will be updated.

Hi AhoyDave. Here are some changes I would like to see, I would be interested in your take. Make scout advancement and leadership tracks separate again (as they used to be!). It's great that scouting teaching leadership skills but not all scouts will be or can be leaders. This can be particularly hard for autistic scouts who have difficulty staying on task and making eye contact, but it can also be hard for neuro-typicals too. "But Leaderhip Development is a method of Scouting", yeah so is Uniform and uniforms are optional. As you note, require that a parent of a special need scout be a registered "one scout" leader who is only responsible to deliver the program to his scout. He or she will not have other special need scouts dumped on them, similarly, other leaders will not have special needs scouts dumped on them WITHOUT that "one scout" parent leader being present. Also "one scout" leaders will not be part of a leader headcount for two-deep leadership etc. It is definitely true, that a special needs scout needs a "champion" in Scouting just as he needs an "advocate" in the school system. The disabled do not need to be reminded at every advancement turn that they are disabled; most join scouting in the hope NOT to be reminded. At present, the scout has to submit a request for alternate requirements to the Council Advancement committee at every rank step when most unit leaders can handle the matter without compromising advancement integrity. Patrol competitions are a big challenge. At a Klondike Derby, we had a PL in tears. He wanted to win, but his patrol spent their energies keeping a special needs scout from wandering off. What can be done here? Does Special Olympics handling of competitive team events have some advice here? Disabilities Merit Badge needs a rewrite - no Talk, no Discuss, no Googling, no Observing...DO! Learn by working with disabled, e.g., Work with a special needs scout to advance a rank, Volunteer with ..., raise service dogs,... I wish I could counter your experiences with some success stories of my own but I cannot, not yet anyway. If you had it to do over, how would you have better spent your time to meet your son's needs? Thank you for your candor and your service to Scouting. I encourage you to write more on the subject as God knows the uninformed certainly do. I hope your son finds happiness as he makes his place in the world.

Odd that John Glenn was never a Scout.

If you feel your Pack will not deliver the scouting program, then it would not hurt to look at other Packs. Attend other Pack meetings and outings with your son/den. You and the Mrs. should attend a Committee Meeting or two see if the Tiger, Wolf, and Bear parents are actively and cooperatively involved in delivering a scouting program. Look at their pack by-laws, budget. fundraising, and program calendar. Talk to members. Relay your findings to your den parents. If things do not improve with your current Pack and you find a better Pack, transfer over and take as many of your den that want to go with you. Worked for me, your mileage may vary. I moved my scouts to a better Pack and spent my time and energy on my scouts and not on trying to change City Hall. Happy ending.

Good questions Wilton125, maybe you can appreciate the irony...Back in the 70's, the Natick Army Labs asked me to evaluate some new cold weather gear even though I have never been a member or employee of the military, just an outdoor guy. Now I have been a member of the BSA for a longer than that, but the BSA seems uninterested in my letters. Luckily, there are a number of outdoor websites and magazine, interested in feedback from novice and expert alike, so we can pass on what we've learned. Neckerchiefs are part of our scout heritage and universally identify us as scouts, why even those WB21ers wear them, a special one I think? Neckerchiefs are multi-purpose like duct tape. Neckers are our bandanas, cravats, slings, signal flags, water filters, dust mask, handkerchief (when wearing short sleeves), troop identifier (color, design), hobo bag... Neckers fell out of favor here when they were downsized to the point of being useless, hell I need two for a single cravat around my leg. That fact was successfully used by my PLC in their argument to switch to baseball caps. Great decision too, no neckerchiefs means no slides to whittle so our scouts don't know how to whittle; no one earning Woodcarving mb either.