RememberSchiff

Maybe the City of Philadelphia will lease the building to a non-discriminatory youth group, like the Philadelphia Boy & Girls Club, for $1/yr.

When you see "other references" on a job application, college application, or Eagle application, do your chances a favor and think that other (adult) references is implied. Teachers, coaches, merit badge counselors, neighbors, and adult scout leaders. You have associated with adults as part of a Scout program method, so this should not be a problem. Good luck.

Liz, our unit also presents ranks badges, et al, at the next COH which are held more of less quarterly. We do this to teach scouts patience (we don't subscribe to the need for immediate "gimme" recognition), to give all plenty of time to adjust schedules (we have good attendance and participation at COH), and to give our Advancement Chairman time (less stress) to do his job. It has worked well for us. Immediate recognition is relatively new in scouting. My unit did not do it in the 60's - we waited until the next COH. Looking at my old scout handbook sixth edition, Nov, 1959. Regarding earning first class page 229. (after the board of review) ..."Soon after, at a troop court of honor, your Scoutmaster presents your First Class badge to you in front of your friends." So a scout waited sometimes a couple of weeks, sometimes a couple months...worth the wait. Also as Cub Scouts we typically waited that long to receive our awards at the next pack meeting. Like you said, this approach may not work well for other units but it works well for us. Some of us wait until Dec 25, for Christmas, some of us don't.

Sounds familiar - no supervision, no discipline - "Boys will be boys"... Look at other troops or Venture crews since you said the older scouts are frustrated, or consider starting a new unit. Stacked deck. Your chances of fixing the problem from within the unit are slim and will only add to your frustration. Good luck

Excuse the obvious question. Is your full name often misspelled or abbreviated? Have you seen a list of ALL who received training and you were definitely not on it? Usually in cases of "lost" records, many people are affected and you have not said this of your council. I am wondering if your information was electronically misfiled. I relate, for many years, my council listed me as Troop Committee and not ASM. Finally was fixed.

The units that I have served, have accepted donations with gratitude and without any drama. Often a donations jar is in place at the entrance for the spaghetti dinners. No complaints from Council execs who attended. Not asking for "scout discount" is just foolish, a scout is thrifty. Our council website lists businesses that offer scout discounts to scouts who are in uniform or show their BSA ID card. Eastern Mountain Sports offers a 20% "scout discount" to scouts twice a year.

A scoutmaster can suggest a merit badge counselor but a scout can go to any merit badge counselor in any council that he wants. An example of this is summer camp or merit badge university, the SM signs the blue card without knowing who the merit badge counselors will be.

In my council, I have noticed an increased number of scouts who transfer to other units (some are Eagle factories, most are not) just to earn their Eagle. This information is not tracked on the Eagle application and is rarely stated at an EBOR. Something is wrong here, a scout should not need to transfer out of his unit to become Eagle, but none of the aforementioned police seem interested. Personally, I would like to see the Eagle application require a troop membership history. 'We see just a year ago you transferred to Troop 2. What prompted that move after 5 years with Troop 1?' 'Sir, I would not have been able to earn my Eagle at my old troop because...' The commissioners or Eagle Board then has a talk with those scoutmasters to find out what the problem is.

Where was your class advertised? Did they text scouts or post on the council website frequented just by adults? Ditto what Ed said - Scouts have to contact me. Scouts need to develop the initiative to contact mb counselors. In doing so, they develop communication skills and self-confidence needed later. Mostly, I too find parents care more about advancement than scouts, but we cannot allow them to micromanage their son's Boy Scout advancement as they likely did in Cub Scouts. Good luck with your class. Thanks for being a mb counselor. We seem to have a shortage. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

From the lapels, sleeves,and pocket flaps, it looks like a replica of a WW2 US Army Officer jacket though not the Ike jacket. Zoom the image and you'll see the buttons have an Eagle on them. My guess anyway.

Probably BRANDED. Hat taken off, red epaulets ripped off, belt removed, the bottle opener on one's Swiss Army knife broken off, and then sent out the gate. Like what happened to my old Cubmaster years ago at my last Pack meeting. Our commissioner was pretty tough about unit inspections.

Kudu, thanks for the link.

Yes. I think higher of a patrol which has planned and executed an adult-less campout than a patrol which has not but has completed National Honor Patrol. Also an award would help promote this as a goal and have other patrols and troops asking "What's that?" We all seem to agree that this is a patrol goal. In exchange, I agree to drop another existing award(s) - your choice and plenty to choose from our abundant award inventory.

Another odd thing. So far, I have found no BSA award which recognizes the accomplishment of an adult-less patrol campout. I suppose, a solo requirement could be added to National Honor Patrol and use that border patch. But, how about a new border patch with "wings", "rocket engines", "broken chains",.. something which would attach to the patrol emblem to show their accomplishment? Or is there a ribbon for the patrol flag that I missed?

I would be delighted to hear that I am wrong, that a patrol (or crew) can go on a Philmont adventure without adults. Here at my council, Philmont is managed through Council with a near constant adult presence. As to my council, no adultless patrol camping at camporees or summer camp. At least two adults must be present. This info is in the camporee flyers and summer camp adult leader handbook. Sorry no links, I prefer to remain anonymous. If other councils are different, I'd like to hear about that too.

Agreed patrols can go camping with SM approval, but in practice that applies only to non-BSA properties and non BSA activities which seems somewhat odd to me. Some examples: 1. A patrol cannot go to Philmont without adults. Yes, adults should handle transportation to and from ranch. When I did Philmont in the 60's, only one adult was required then and frankly we would have done fine without him on the trail. 2. A patrol cannot go to camporees in my council w/o adults. (Our troop was not going to the camporee but one older patrol was interested but still needed two adults). 3. A patrol cannot go to scout camp, even a "patrol method" scout camp, without adults. They could go provisional but then the camp provides the "adults". (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Didn't say it was. In fact, I don't think the current policy even requires blue cards. http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors.aspx "Most local councils (including summer camps) use the Application for Merit Badge, or blue card, although it is not required." Too bad, I think the perceived "convenience" short-changes scouts on some valuable lessons that my generation learned. My opinion.

When I was a scout (60's), scouts were expected to keep their own advancement records, that's why one third of the blue card is the scout's copy. Most of us bundled our blue cards together with a rubber band and stored with our baseball cards (Cookie Rojas, Johnny Callison,...) - our prized possessions all stored in a shoe box. At Star, Life, and Eagle, we had to show proof of our merit badge work with our completed blue cards and not the white award cards, camp worksheet, or sash. Lose your blue card and you made a trip back to the counselor who hopefully kept his third or at least remembered you. Forget going to Council, they had no room to store their third of the blue card. At Star, I lost a couple blue cards and I learned my lesson for later ranks. So, it was the scout's responsibility, not the Troop Advancement Chairman, not the Scoutmaster, not his parents - the scout's. Good training for adulthood - keep your own records; don't count on anyone else - the government, banks, and especially council. At the BOR, each blue card was examined. A scout definitely had to have all his ducks in a row. I do not remember any issues with parents as counselors. If one of the BOR had been your counselor, he would have stepped aside. Glad to hear your Eagle Board of Review expects the same as mine did. If others expect less, sorry to hear that.

Nice work. You obviously put allot of time and thought into this. Very few websites put in the online help, FAQ, and support contact information. I offer some feedback. 1. Compliance not an issue First, there are NO BSA website rules that a UNIT MUST be in compliance. http://www.scouting.org/webmasters/faq/guidelines.aspx#uws states "There are no national guidelines or policies regarding Unit Web sites because units are "owned" by their chartered organizations. Therefore, any unit Web site belongs to the chartered organization or the individual who operates the site, not the BSA. While the BSA does provide advice for those who operate unit Web sites, which can be found here, the BSA does not have the ability to compel units to comply with this advice. Councils that wish to provide links to unit Web sites have an opportunity to require units to comply with this advice by granting a link only to units that meet these conditions (and any other the council wishes to apply) ... however, even in those cases, the council cannot compel a unit to comply by any means other than withholding such a link." As always when someone throws a rule at you, ask where does it say that? Even our council has a search engine link. And you council website http://www.northernstarbsa.org/ has ads on its website. And it is a good idea to have a weather link on your website for activity planning. Personally I prefer the National Weather Service for the updated radar maps http://www.nws.noaa.gov/. Your hosting service claims no-ads hosting. Common sense allows applies. Posting personal information - full names, phone numbers, e-mail addresses is not a good idea. Creating alias e-mail accounts with mail forwarding is common, mail sent to cubmaster@pack423..com ->> goes to whoever is cubmaster. Posting your travel itinerary should be password protected like your discussion blog or not online at all. It is not a good idea to tell the world the specifics of where you are going and when. After the activity is completed, no problem. Also as mentioned, your council may have some guidelines that they want followed if they are to provide a link from the council website to yours. They may object to ads, though they have some themselves. 2.Legal use of BSA trademarks - not an issue. If you stick to promoting scouting activities and not commercial businesses, you are covered by internet "fair use" policies (both copyright and trademark). 3. Homepage layout. Think about what you want to draw attention to first and how you want the user's eye to traverse the homepage. Usually the eye will be drawn to a photo or graphic first. My eye sees a picture of what looks like a boarded-up abandoned building? Sorry, get a picture of some lively, smiling scouts doing some scout activity. Some thumbnail photos of activities might be good for the homepage. You have a sea of visually indistinct information. Some information is fairly static "How to join Pack", some is "breaking news". Try to visually separate them - different column, font, or my favorite background color (maybe bgcolor=#FFFFFF for news cells, bgcolor=#D3D3D3. Keep the homepage updated and changing. Change photo and graphics periodically or make website more dynamic - photo sequencer. 4. Think about what webpages your users will want to print out and if your layout accommodates. 5. Think about ease of maintenance. Try to reduce the number of pages you have to update each week. Can others upload content, particularly photos or just the webmaster? 6. Some photos, even the thumbnails, should be compressed to display faster. Some photos were, some were not. BTW good photos. 7. Navigating from Den 1 website is an adventure. Anyway my $0.02, keep up the good work.

I would have scouts walk and pull a wagon - safer, environmental friendly, and cheap. If you are set on a vehicular float, start with the GSS as others suggested BUT stay away from flatbed trailers with outrigger wheels. You also want a railing to keep scouts from falling off. These links are about the death of a Cub Scout on a Christmas float in 2006. http://archive.seacoastonline.com/news/12042006/nhnews-ph-por-scout.death.html http://mail.nhliberty.org/pipermail/bill_reviewers_nhliberty.org/Week-of-Mon-20070129/000017.html

I have read that our military budget (not counting Dept of Homeland Security or Veterans services) is larger than the budget of the next 15 nations combined. Unlike other nations, we have a military presence on foreign soils outside of UN actions. But maybe we spend more than all nations combined http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp#InContextUSMilitarySpendingVersusRestoftheWorld http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures Compare us to those with a higher standard of living than US and how much they spend on defense. But back to the topic...we need to get back in the public school otherwise our memberships number will continue the downward spiral. We need to recruit and hold activities in the public school, particularly "after school". Other youth organizations (4-H, Boys & Girls) without the DRP disadvantage are growing. They are where the boys are and we are not.

Relax. Let your scouts do their good turns and learn to feel good about helping others without expectation of reward. Don't worry about tracking hours, quantifying projects, maximizing awards for time spent, make-work paperwork...enjoy with your scouts giving help to others. My $0.02

I thought this thread was about DRP?

In "Rovering for Success", Baden Powell symbolically talks about the rocks that a boy must be wary during a Voyage of Life canoe trip one rock being irreligion. He detested that adult atheists were forcing their irreligion on boys. He felt that a boy cannot fully develop without a religious belief and that in Scouting by showing boys the wonders of Nature was a step towards believing in God. He did not necessarily mean an established religion and he realized that not all boys would fully develop as scouts. In my reading, I found that for boys, there was no religion precondition to joining or remaining in scouting, just the opposite. BP's new Scouting provided all boys the opportunity to find their own spirituality in a nonsectarian way. The only preconditions I found were age and physical ability. Drop the DRP for young boys. Scouting should go back to helping all boys avoid the rocks. A Charter Organization does not have to allow atheists into their units, as they can place conditions on membership just like before DRP was created in the 70's. Catholic units can continue to require that a boy must be Catholic to join while a Congregational Church would be allowed to accept boys who are atheist, agnostic, or undeclared. Aug, 2005: 7th Circuit Court of Appeals court ruled Atheism is a religion. Wisconsin prison officials must allow a study group for atheists as well.

There has been local option before to include boys previously excluded. "(James) West also dealt with those who protested against the inclusion of African Americans. West held that they should be included, but that local communities should follow the same policies that they followed in the school systems. Thus, much of the American south as well as many major northern communities had segregated programs with "colored troops" until the late 1940s. Since the BSA had early and enduring ties with the YMCA, a firmly Protestant organization, the Catholic church forbade their boys to join. West successfully argued that Scouting was non-sectarian and the Catholics accepted the BSA program in 1913." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_E._West_%28Scouting%29