RememberSchiff

U.S. Cavalry http://www.uscav.com is one , search for name tapes if the link below does not work. http://www.uscav.com/search.aspx?Search=name+tapes&TabID=1&os=1&CatID=5230 hope this helps,

Agreed Eagle is NOT the goal of Scouting or the purpose of SM. In the SM role of "delivering the promise", the purpose of the BSA, that does not have to be performed explicitly or exclusively by the SM. Delegate. Other adult leaders with different personalities, perspectives, interests, and approaches may be more successful - "adult association". A SM conference can be handled by an ASM. Very few SM's can effectively reach all their scouts, that's why we have help. Partial successes count. My $0.02

The DL needs to be at this meeting with DE, CM, CC, COR to give his/her side. Do not be surprised if COR is a no show. Prior to meeting this DL should receive a list of legitimate complaints, who is complaining, and then ask for someone from Council and/or the COR to check into those complaints with den parents, etc. The complaints may or may not be legit and the conclusion may be just adults who cannot get along. If his den loves him/her and you and the CC do not, expect that whole den will transfer elsewhere...maybe to your old pack where you did not get along. Good luck to all involved, particularly the scouts. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

How do his den parents feel about this? If they have no complaints then this situation gets murkier. I take it this leader's son is also in the den.

Understand I'm just asking. I know little about LDS, other than hearing that Spock maybe did little too much LDS back in the '60s at Berkeley. 1. Did LDS approve National creating coed Exploring and Venturing which has local gender option with LDS crews choosing not to be coed? 2. Did LDS approve the changes by National to allow women in adult leadership roles which also appears to be a local opt-out with LDS? My $0.01

Nope urban myth. You need not be a resident within a Council's geographic boundaries. Many attend church, etc. across state and council lines and elect to join the units sponsored there. Split custody is another situation where a scout might join a unit in a different council. In my case, I opted for the better Council. My $0.02

Good discussion. Everyone got the merit badge name right but me I used the old name Auto Mechanics, sorry. The merit badge is now called Auto Maintenance and I think it is one of the harder merit badges. Hats off to those ambitious scouts, who on their own, undertake and earn it! By 16 yrs, I would expect a scout to demonstrate more maturity and self-motivation in planning to reach his life goals - college, drivers license, Eagle Scout, whatever. Sadly, my troop has unmotivated, parent-micro-managed Eagle Scouts which to me is a contradiction. Self motivation is part of Scout Spirit for me. Another $0.01

Scouts should be self-motivated towards their advancement. There is more quid pro quo going on today not only between parent and child but within scouting too. An individual merit badge seems innocent enough (Auto Mechanics is a tough mb), but where does it stop? Maybe there should be an added requirement on all merit badges - "I undertook this merit badge because I wanted to and earned it without accepting any bribes". Could be worded better but you get the idea. If I was part of a BOR and asked a scout, "What motivated you to take the path to Eagle?" Scout: "My parents promised me a car." RS: "Was there any other motivation? What if there was no car offer?" Scout: "No. Probably wouldn't be here." I would vote no. He wanted a car not Eagle. My $0.01, (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Huh? Mason had two months to man-up before the fine was imposed. April 28 - Mason was rescued. He was praised for using his scout skills sleeping in the crevice of a boulder and jump-starting fires with hand sanitizer gel to get himself through his self-inflicted predicament. Early May, after Fish and Game had interviewed those involved, these statements were released (Nashua Telegraph, Washington Post): Mason was negligent in continuing up the mountain with an injury and veering off the marked path, Fish and Game Major Acerno said. Negligence, he said, is based on judging what a reasonable person would do in the same situation. "When I twist my ankle, I turn around and come down. He kept going up," Acerno said. "It was his negligence that led to him getting into that predicament," he said. "Once he was in that predicament, yes, that's what we praise him for he used his Boy Scout skills, and that's why he's still alive." Mason had crampons, snow shoes and an ice pick with him, but did not bring overnight gear since he was planning a day hike. He discussed his itinerary with a supervisor at the Pinkham Notch Lodge before setting out. His mother, Jory Mason, called the lodge when she did not hear from her son that night. Acerno said Scott Masons negligence began with his itinerary. After he injured himself, Acerno said Mason made the decision to get off the trail to find a faster way back to the lodge. He was not staying on the trail, Acerno said. Our volunteers ran the trails of his itinerary but he began bushwhacking and navigating through places he should not have during the spring. He took an undesirable route, crossed streams that are swollen in the spring, and tried to make his way out rather than turning around on the trail and hiking out that way. We looked at everything and in the departments opinion he was negligent in totality. ------- High rescue costs are being reported which will over-strain Fish & Game's rescue budget. It was clear that Mason donating his $1000 savings and walking away was not a mutually agreeable solution. My opinion, he should have stepped up in May and stated something to the effect 'I cannot begin to repay the costs but maybe there is another way I can pay back you folks'. I would not be surprised if Fish & Game would come up with some options. Maybe work on their Hike-safe program (started in 2003) or do maintenance at the state parks on the endangered list. But Mason did not, maybe he was hoping this 25K problem would go away. Two months! July 11, Mason family receives $25K bill. Time to lawyer-up. Now if NH Fish & Game & the NH Attorney General were the twards or whatever being insinuated, then Mason would have lost his Massachusetts drivers license followed by a lien on his family's home, and they sure could have made his college application process difficult too, but NH did not do anything like that. All that happened was these lawyers from Mass drove up periodically and talked and maybe looked at our autumn leaves. After Oct, there was hardly any news about this matter. In a letter sent April 8 to Masons legal counsel, New Hampshire Attorney General Michael Delaney and New Hampshire Fish and Game Executive Director Glenn Normandeau wrote: We hope that the publicity about his experience has served as an important teaching moment to others considering hiking in the White Mountains, so they might know that the dangers and risks of doing so should never be underestimated. I doubt NH Fish & Game ever intended to make this young man pay up. I think Fish & Game wanted to teach a lesson and reduce the number of hiking emergencies that were straining the Fish & Game rescue budget. NH turned a negative situation around into a positive, the Mason family hired lawyers. My last $0.02,

I could be wrong on the diagnosis. His skin appeared red and swollen to me - chilblains maybe? but if the docs said sunburn so be it. Some of my (old) texts and I combine chilblains with frostbite as both are cold weather tissue injuries and similar in appearance (early frostbite stage) and treatment. And yes on exposed skin, windchill causes a quicker onset of both. Another safety concern was the "going lite" comment, as I mentioned things can happen on the trail - injury, weather change, getting lost. By AMC standards, he did not even carry the gear for a three season hike let alone a winter hike http://www.outdoors.org/recreation/hiking/hiking-gear.cfm http://www.outdoors.org/publications/outdoors/web/winter-gear.cfm Be prepared. He wasn't, but he was extremely lucky. Scouting would better serve youth by manning-up instead of lawyering-up. Be honest and forthcoming about our mistakes, learn from them and pass that learning on to others. Turn incidents like this around. Better for the scout, better for the community, and better for the BSA. I wish this scout (and his family) would have said to NH Fish & Game, "I made mistakes in taking this trek. I have come to realize how much effort and risk others took to ensure my safe return. I want to give back to those that came to my aid, maybe I can help teach others and reduce the number of winter rescues..." Scout character. Instead of here is $1000, thanks and then hire a string of lawyers. Despite attempts to vilify NH Fish & Game, they are great people and very involved in outdoor education http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/ Which has me wondering if NH Fish & Game ever intended to collect this fine, maybe they wanted the shock value to get hikers thinking? The number of rescue calls appear down, maybe there were fewer untrained out-of-state hikers Another $0.02 (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Looks like he had first degree frostbite or windburn on face and hands. Yes, you can get frostbite if the air temp is above 32F which seems contradictory. It is called the wind chill factor. Temps were above freezing but in the upper 30's to 40's. It was windy - 40mph or more, 90mph gusts over those days. Looking at NOAA's windchill chart, with 40deg air temp but 40mph wind gives a skin temp of 27deg. You can check the "Summit weather archive" http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/summit.php When you day hike in these mountains, no matter the time of year, you should be prepared to stay overnight. The weather can suddenly take a turn for the worse, you can get lost, or you can get hurt. I had not read any reports of a bivy sack, tarp, sleeping bag; the reports I read said he curled up in snow caves. No stove? No fuel? He wasn't prepared for a day hike that could go wrong. Thank heaven for flammable hand sanitizer. Rather than put spin on stupidity or bad mouth his rescuers and the State of NH, I think a better approach would be for this young man to do a serious community service project along the lines of winter trek safety. I don't want to read about a lost scout's body being recovered after a failed day hike in the NH mountains. Safety first. Another $0.02

He did not have sufficient gear for a winter trek. No stove (he lit hand sanitizer), no tent, no sleeping bag. Look at his frostbite in the rescue photos. Self-rescue? Well I guess, if seeing your rescuers approaching you and you don't walk away or waving to a rescue aircraft looking for you is self-rescue. There was consensus among his rescuers and NH Fish Game that he was unprepared. NH Fish Game then sought reimbursement under the 1999 NH Reckless Hiker law which was co-sponsored by a former scoutmaster. This young man was not the first person or even scout to be billed under that law. The bill was a record amount but so were the resources committed. Rescuers have been known to take risks, some have died, in their attempt to bring the lost out alive. I was sorry to hear some were injured during this rescue. Another $0.02

There is more background information in this thread http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=245018&p=1 Unprepared for conditions or overnight stay, hiked during the most perilous time of year (winter/spring) to hike the Whites, and hiked alone. I would say those first two constitutes negligence. His parents reported him overdue for his DAY hike and requested rescue which over three days involved emergency resources from 3 states (NH, VT, ME). A fourth state, his home state of Massachusetts, refused parent's request to send Mass State Police helicopter to aid in search. The positive 1. He did not die 2. No rescuers died either, though some were injured during stream traversals. Not all rescuers were tax-paid professionals, some rescuers were experienced volunteers. 3. He did not do this stunt during the BSA 100th. I hope he has or will perform some serious community service in lieu of the financial penalty. Previously, I suggested enlistment in the NH National Guard where he might experience the risks of being a rescuer firsthand. Another idea, setup up a real winter outdoors trek training program with NH Fish & Game, maybe AMC, and our own OKPIK scouters in Maine. As I understand he had earned Wilderness Survival mb prior to this trek. We all do stupid things from time to time, but I expect scouts and scouters to make amends for their actions or has scouting now lost that distinction too? Specifically, he should work to turn the negative around and make a overall positive outcome, until then I remain disappointed. My $0.02, (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Eagle Scout off the hook for $25K rescue bill - Nashua Telegraph, Sat Apr 10,2010 http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/699918-196/state-wont-charge-teen-25000-for-white.html CONCORD New Hampshire has decided not to go ahead with a controversial attempt to charge a Massachusetts teen $25,000 to cover costs for a search and rescue in the White Mountains last year that involved a helicopter. New Hampshire Fish and Game said it has decided not to pursue collecting the reimbursement because of (Scott) Masons personal circumstances and conditions at this time. The department reserved the right to bring action in the future, however. Mason, an Eagle Scout who as 17 at the time, spent three nights alone on Mount Washington last April after he sprained an ankle and turned off marked trails while hiking alone. The search included a helicopter, but rescuers on the ground ended up spotting the teen and leading him to safety. Masons lawyer, Pamela Kogut, said her client and his family were grateful to New Hampshire rescuers and appreciative of the decision to drop the fine. Mason is now 18 and a senior in high school. We have long maintained that Scott took his responsibility as a safe hiker very seriously, and that he was not negligent, she said. We also believe that for a young man and a hardworking middle-class family, assessment of more than $25,000 was not warranted. The fine was the largest of its kind ever imposed in New Hampshire, one of eight states with laws allowing billing for rescue costs. Three states besides New Hampshire Hawaii, Oregon and Maine have laws allowing agencies to bill for rescues, but only Maine has attempted to recoup money a handful of times and the bills were never paid, according to an Associated Press review last year. California, Vermont, Colorado and Idaho have laws allowing state agencies to bill in limited circumstances, but the laws are rarely enforced. National search-and-rescue organizations dislike the laws. They worry the possibility of big bills could cause hikers to delay calling for help, putting them and rescuers at greater risk. State authorities praised Masons skills when he was lost which included sleeping in a boulder crevice and starting fires with hand sanitizer but said Mason wasnt prepared for the conditions. Three months later, the state presented him with the bill, which produced a long and heated debate about the need and propriety of charging people for rescue. At the time, the news caused a firestorm of attention, with hundreds of Web sites, blogs and ABC News picking up the story. A scoutmaster from Maryland set up a Facebook page in Masons name to raise money. Despite some fallout, several state officials interviewed stood by the law. The charge came about partly because the traditional funding for search and rescue operations in the state a $1 surcharge on off-highway recreational vehicles and boat registrations was falling well short of costs. Fish and Game Lt. Kevin Jordan said there was a lot of compromise on both sides. Masons family sent the state $1,000. Weve reached what all of us believe is a reasonable conclusion that pursuing the reimbursement at this time would not be appropriate, Jordan said. In a letter sent April 8 to Masons legal counsel, New Hampshire Attorney General Michael Delaney and New Hampshire Fish and Game Executive Director Glenn Normandeau wrote: We hope that the publicity about his experience has served as an important teaching moment to others considering hiking in the White Mountains, so they might know that the dangers and risks of doing so should never be underestimated.

BA So if you are saying you have 4 well-rounded Eagles in your local high school Class of 2010, how many did you have in your class of 1965? My experience is that there were many more well-rounded Eagles in the 60's. My homeroom alone had 3. I doubt the whole class of 2010 at my old high school has 2 by June. I am not saying there are not great well-round Eagles today. I am saying in the 60's there were more of them. Another $0.02

Agreed. But back to my original point, as a result of that "active" troop leadership requirement for upper ranks, we lost potential Eagles who demonstrated their leadership in other ways in the community. Scouting is poorer for this change. Compare your local high school classes 1965 and the upcoming 2010. Who in those graduating classes are Eagles Scouts and what are their other community, church, academic, athletic and artistic accomplishments or didn't they have the time. Note there were more boy scouts in 1965 than today yet fewer Eagle scouts than today. Another $0.02

In the 1959, 6th edition 1st printing BSA handbook there is no formal "leader" requirement for Star, Life or Eagle. Under Scout Teamwork requirements section: "Accept and carry out responsibilities in meetings, outdoor activities, and service projects of your unit." - could be a leader, could be a grunt, but you had to be a team player. By the 6th printing in 1963, these changed "...show to the satisfaction of your leaders that you - work actively as a leader in meetings, outdoor activities, and service projects..." Still no formal requirements that you hold an office or hold one for any period of time. You could earn Eagle back then without having held a formal troop office. Some lead games, planned the annual church service project, training classes without being a POR. Maybe today they would be called Troop Guides? Another $0.02

First: Firemanship with Mr. Wood Favorite: Lifesaving with Red Cross

John, you may be more right. I don't recall Warrant Offices? There is no mention of that in my 6th edition, Mar 1963 handbook. I dug out my old cards. I had a green Eagle Scout Scoreboard wallet card which appears to be from 1966, it does list 2. Troop officer for 6 months since becoming Life Scout. So the leadership requirement must have been added after 1963. I can now answer with certainty that my first mb was Firemanship Refund $0.02

BA I was a scout in the 60's, used the 6th edition handbook. There were no POR requirements. Leadership and advancement were separate tracks. That still makes sense to me. Not all Eagles are leaders. Most Eagle projects were wholly your own labor then. In the 60's, most troops in my area did not meet during the summer, other than a week for camp. Older scouts had jobs (house painting before the days of water-based paints some fun), and we all played baseball, some basketball. Jobs and baseball were American traditions before scouting was! Some families disappeared to the Jersey shore or Poconos all summer. My son's troop has typically two or more weekend troop outdoor activities per month. There are also separate service weekends and fundraiser weekends during the year. He does get Christmas, Easter, and Mothers' Day off. Understand my son does not attend all activities and since the troop schedule conflicts with OA, he is not in OA . Some activities are required and there is a minimum 75% attendance for POR rank requirement (troop rules). Overall far more attendance hours per month than I gave. None of this existed in my day. In his unit, those scouts who want to join a sports team, do robotics, etc. go inactive, some come back but most don't. Strict attendance rules and over-scheduling is not scouting to me. Another $0.02

This problem goes away if 1. The BSA returns to separating leadership from advancement, i.e., no troop POR requirement for rank. 2. Lightens up on the program scheduling. No year-round/outing every month/FCFY nonsense/attendance mandates. By age 12, my son had been on more campouts, summer camps, and earned Camping mb than I had by 15, why? Give scouts the freedom and time to explore school activities, sports, jobs, volunteering, as well as scouting. Back in my day, there were no troop POR requirements (and the requisite attendance requirements) for rank advancements. There was just a simple service requirement under Scout Spirit to do your share in helping home, school, community, and church - you were ACTIVE and INVOLVED in your greater community not indentured to your troop. Maybe you were a sports team captain, Chemistry League president, Student Council president, band musician, altar boy, worked a job, or a SPL or PL - all good. There was time for other important things producing a better rounded young man. The best and brightest kids - the A students, team captains, band members, school leaders were Eagles. Today? Rarely. Maybe they were Cub Scouts? Maybe. Say when was the last time your scoutmaster asked to see report cards as mine had? I brought in a sorry report card to him and found myself being tutored in math by another scout - a future Princeton grad. He had no POR but earned Eagle. My math improved . Leadership and service isn't restricted to those with POR patches - help other people at all times... My $0.02 (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

These comments are drawn mostly from my experience with Facebook. Pros: 1. A member can easily upload content and after some involved configuration, access to that content can be controlled mostly by restricting it to invited "friends". 2. It's hip or cool, whatever. Great for meeting new people, even those in your high school who normally would not talk to you 3. For older kids, Venturers and Explorers, this is probably a more useful recruiting tool than an open-house. Cons: 1. Unless content is public, all that want access must become a member of that social network. Some parents will not allow Facebook accounts and I can't blame them. 2. Facebook can change their service and rules any time they want. Anyone can create a Facebook account. No one checks the age or identity. So my son could create a Facebook account and I would have NO control over it. Sure I can create a "controlled" account, but once I give him the password, he can change the controls or he could just create a new account unknown to me. Now my son would not do this, but you get the idea. 3. With these so-called controls, many are under the false impression that what happens on Facebook stays on Facebook. It's the internet dude!!! 4. You can invite "friends" but you can't control them or filter their content. Social networks encourage people to tell/show their interests so they can link with others of similar interests and thus build a network of so-called "friends". So we had Eagle Scouts with links to Playboy, parents with links to nevermind...and all had some bizarre friends. What do you do? Do you monitor all troop member Facebook accounts for inappropriate content or do you suggest that troop members not identify themselves as such or as scouts on Facebook. BTW, those Eagles did not identify themselves as either troop members or scouts though they did state their name and high school - DUDES. It can become a headache that you don't need. Also you still need to communicate with your members who are not on Facebook. 5. Like video games which BTW are included, it can become a huge time sink particularly for young people who should be doing homework, etc. That said, Facebook, etc. can be very effective in quickly and easily getting information out to your large "network of friends" aka your troop. Would I use Facebook for a troop? No, most boy scouts are too young. For older kids say in an Explorer Post or Venture Crew, I could see using a social network but setup some controls and usage policies first. Try impressing upon them that colleges and employers view these sites as well as creeps. The internet can be a permanent record of your stupidity, so do not use any real information like your name, address, phone #, main e-mail account... My $0.01

Too much irrelevant details. If a former or current troop member refuses to return troop records to the troop, the current troop leadership - the SM or CC, should contact their Charter Organization Representative (COR). The COR will call that individual(s) and if they still do not comply, the COR calls the police. Simple and effective. I read some of your other postings. IMHO, I think you and your family need a break from scouting. My $0.02

Forget Council. Inform your Charter Organization who can then contact the police regarding their stolen property - sensitive organization records.

Well if we are going to credit troops created BEFORE the BSA officially existed how about Burnside, Kentucky. "Burnside is believed to be home to the first Boy Scout troop in the United States. In 1908, two years before the Boy Scouts of America was officially organized, Mrs. Myra Greeno Bass organized a local troop of 15 boys, using official Boy Scout materials she had acquired from England. A sign at the edge of town declares Burnside "Birthplace of Boy Scouts of America", and an official state historical society marker commemorates the troop.[1] Burnside is now part of the Blue Grass Council." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_in_Kentucky Twocubdad, Please refer to the accompanying mb counselor and summer camp guide for each historic merit badge as that was a stated reason for the three month delay. No I could not find it either. One of our enterprising scouts decided to research the local library archives and found a 1910 map and business directory. So he is working on the badge as if he were a 1911 scout. Bright scout. My two Indian head cents,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)