RememberSchiff

BA So if you are saying you have 4 well-rounded Eagles in your local high school Class of 2010, how many did you have in your class of 1965? My experience is that there were many more well-rounded Eagles in the 60's. My homeroom alone had 3. I doubt the whole class of 2010 at my old high school has 2 by June. I am not saying there are not great well-round Eagles today. I am saying in the 60's there were more of them. Another $0.02

Agreed. But back to my original point, as a result of that "active" troop leadership requirement for upper ranks, we lost potential Eagles who demonstrated their leadership in other ways in the community. Scouting is poorer for this change. Compare your local high school classes 1965 and the upcoming 2010. Who in those graduating classes are Eagles Scouts and what are their other community, church, academic, athletic and artistic accomplishments or didn't they have the time. Note there were more boy scouts in 1965 than today yet fewer Eagle scouts than today. Another $0.02

In the 1959, 6th edition 1st printing BSA handbook there is no formal "leader" requirement for Star, Life or Eagle. Under Scout Teamwork requirements section: "Accept and carry out responsibilities in meetings, outdoor activities, and service projects of your unit." - could be a leader, could be a grunt, but you had to be a team player. By the 6th printing in 1963, these changed "...show to the satisfaction of your leaders that you - work actively as a leader in meetings, outdoor activities, and service projects..." Still no formal requirements that you hold an office or hold one for any period of time. You could earn Eagle back then without having held a formal troop office. Some lead games, planned the annual church service project, training classes without being a POR. Maybe today they would be called Troop Guides? Another $0.02

First: Firemanship with Mr. Wood Favorite: Lifesaving with Red Cross

John, you may be more right. I don't recall Warrant Offices? There is no mention of that in my 6th edition, Mar 1963 handbook. I dug out my old cards. I had a green Eagle Scout Scoreboard wallet card which appears to be from 1966, it does list 2. Troop officer for 6 months since becoming Life Scout. So the leadership requirement must have been added after 1963. I can now answer with certainty that my first mb was Firemanship Refund $0.02

BA I was a scout in the 60's, used the 6th edition handbook. There were no POR requirements. Leadership and advancement were separate tracks. That still makes sense to me. Not all Eagles are leaders. Most Eagle projects were wholly your own labor then. In the 60's, most troops in my area did not meet during the summer, other than a week for camp. Older scouts had jobs (house painting before the days of water-based paints some fun), and we all played baseball, some basketball. Jobs and baseball were American traditions before scouting was! Some families disappeared to the Jersey shore or Poconos all summer. My son's troop has typically two or more weekend troop outdoor activities per month. There are also separate service weekends and fundraiser weekends during the year. He does get Christmas, Easter, and Mothers' Day off. Understand my son does not attend all activities and since the troop schedule conflicts with OA, he is not in OA . Some activities are required and there is a minimum 75% attendance for POR rank requirement (troop rules). Overall far more attendance hours per month than I gave. None of this existed in my day. In his unit, those scouts who want to join a sports team, do robotics, etc. go inactive, some come back but most don't. Strict attendance rules and over-scheduling is not scouting to me. Another $0.02

This problem goes away if 1. The BSA returns to separating leadership from advancement, i.e., no troop POR requirement for rank. 2. Lightens up on the program scheduling. No year-round/outing every month/FCFY nonsense/attendance mandates. By age 12, my son had been on more campouts, summer camps, and earned Camping mb than I had by 15, why? Give scouts the freedom and time to explore school activities, sports, jobs, volunteering, as well as scouting. Back in my day, there were no troop POR requirements (and the requisite attendance requirements) for rank advancements. There was just a simple service requirement under Scout Spirit to do your share in helping home, school, community, and church - you were ACTIVE and INVOLVED in your greater community not indentured to your troop. Maybe you were a sports team captain, Chemistry League president, Student Council president, band musician, altar boy, worked a job, or a SPL or PL - all good. There was time for other important things producing a better rounded young man. The best and brightest kids - the A students, team captains, band members, school leaders were Eagles. Today? Rarely. Maybe they were Cub Scouts? Maybe. Say when was the last time your scoutmaster asked to see report cards as mine had? I brought in a sorry report card to him and found myself being tutored in math by another scout - a future Princeton grad. He had no POR but earned Eagle. My math improved . Leadership and service isn't restricted to those with POR patches - help other people at all times... My $0.02 (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

These comments are drawn mostly from my experience with Facebook. Pros: 1. A member can easily upload content and after some involved configuration, access to that content can be controlled mostly by restricting it to invited "friends". 2. It's hip or cool, whatever. Great for meeting new people, even those in your high school who normally would not talk to you 3. For older kids, Venturers and Explorers, this is probably a more useful recruiting tool than an open-house. Cons: 1. Unless content is public, all that want access must become a member of that social network. Some parents will not allow Facebook accounts and I can't blame them. 2. Facebook can change their service and rules any time they want. Anyone can create a Facebook account. No one checks the age or identity. So my son could create a Facebook account and I would have NO control over it. Sure I can create a "controlled" account, but once I give him the password, he can change the controls or he could just create a new account unknown to me. Now my son would not do this, but you get the idea. 3. With these so-called controls, many are under the false impression that what happens on Facebook stays on Facebook. It's the internet dude!!! 4. You can invite "friends" but you can't control them or filter their content. Social networks encourage people to tell/show their interests so they can link with others of similar interests and thus build a network of so-called "friends". So we had Eagle Scouts with links to Playboy, parents with links to nevermind...and all had some bizarre friends. What do you do? Do you monitor all troop member Facebook accounts for inappropriate content or do you suggest that troop members not identify themselves as such or as scouts on Facebook. BTW, those Eagles did not identify themselves as either troop members or scouts though they did state their name and high school - DUDES. It can become a headache that you don't need. Also you still need to communicate with your members who are not on Facebook. 5. Like video games which BTW are included, it can become a huge time sink particularly for young people who should be doing homework, etc. That said, Facebook, etc. can be very effective in quickly and easily getting information out to your large "network of friends" aka your troop. Would I use Facebook for a troop? No, most boy scouts are too young. For older kids say in an Explorer Post or Venture Crew, I could see using a social network but setup some controls and usage policies first. Try impressing upon them that colleges and employers view these sites as well as creeps. The internet can be a permanent record of your stupidity, so do not use any real information like your name, address, phone #, main e-mail account... My $0.01

Too much irrelevant details. If a former or current troop member refuses to return troop records to the troop, the current troop leadership - the SM or CC, should contact their Charter Organization Representative (COR). The COR will call that individual(s) and if they still do not comply, the COR calls the police. Simple and effective. I read some of your other postings. IMHO, I think you and your family need a break from scouting. My $0.02

Forget Council. Inform your Charter Organization who can then contact the police regarding their stolen property - sensitive organization records.

Well if we are going to credit troops created BEFORE the BSA officially existed how about Burnside, Kentucky. "Burnside is believed to be home to the first Boy Scout troop in the United States. In 1908, two years before the Boy Scouts of America was officially organized, Mrs. Myra Greeno Bass organized a local troop of 15 boys, using official Boy Scout materials she had acquired from England. A sign at the edge of town declares Burnside "Birthplace of Boy Scouts of America", and an official state historical society marker commemorates the troop.[1] Burnside is now part of the Blue Grass Council." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_in_Kentucky Twocubdad, Please refer to the accompanying mb counselor and summer camp guide for each historic merit badge as that was a stated reason for the three month delay. No I could not find it either. One of our enterprising scouts decided to research the local library archives and found a 1910 map and business directory. So he is working on the badge as if he were a 1911 scout. Bright scout. My two Indian head cents,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Tool safety and first aid were taught back then without the need for explicitly making it a requirement. Common sense was common practice. No power tools are mentioned in the requirements, those are ALL hand tools. Remember this was 1911, the badge would lose its historic value if today's scout could use today's power tools. Had to find an old hand rip saw. Found a dull, rusty one at a barn sale. So I added a demo on saw sharpening. Of course that was after they tried to rip a pine board with a dull saw. Good lesson in keeping your tools in good condition, making them last. Old values and skills take time to learn. That's the real lesson in this badge. My two Indian Head pennies,

Yes, but most of us would like to keep Council off our backs.

"...Interestingly, right on the BSA Medical form they tell you that if you have any questions about HIPAA to go to that website. You have to wonder why they put that there when it's just going to make people think they're related." Pass the buck and CYA. That's because you will NOT find any answers regarding HIPAA in the Guide to Safe Scouting Medical Information section or the National website - not even in the Scouting Safely section. I think the professionals at National/Council owe us volunteers a clear written statement on HIPAA rather than leaving it as yet another figure-it-out-yourselves exercise. Another policy issue is the return or destruction of health forms from summer camp or other council/district activities. Can't get an answer for that either. My $0.02,

The original ("historic") merit badge requirements are in the 1911 Scout Handbook which has been freely available online for some time at gutenberg.org http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/29558 HTML http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29558/29558-h/29558-h.htm Now if those 1911 requirements are changed, then they lose their historic nature. So one would think the requirements would remain the same. Old scouters don't need scanned images to teach old carpentry, pathfinding, morse code, or tracking. My $0.02

Agreed, in keeping with the day. That is a lot of Malarkey. my $0.02

Well if adults tell kids, the group goal is to teach sailing and race, what does leadership have to do with it? Sounds like most think this group is an adult-run sailing club. If it is to be a Venture crew, the scouts need to be setting the goals. Training needed, start over. My $0.02

I disapprove of double-dipping as well. Too often, I see scouts and their parents playing the game of maximizing awards gained by applying least effort. This is contrary to the Scout Spirit - the way we live up to the ideals of scouting by helping others (not ourselves). My $0.02

This is puzzling to me too, since Humanists do not believe in God nor do they have a duty to God. Are they a religion? The Supreme Court says so, that they are " a religion that does not believe in God". Are they reverent? I'd say so. They have a deep respect for man and his reason and ethnics. Are they spiritual? They believe is the spirit of man. To be consistent, the BSA would have to drop "duty to God" from the Oath in order to allow Humanists. Regardless, I welcome them. My $0.02

Maybe there are different "wigwags" for morse code? Standing, we swung a large figure "8" counter-clockwise from top on our left side for a "dah" and on our right side for "dit". This was visible over a fairly large distance.

Dimemaker Around here the only chance to find a BSA Lifeguard course is at summer camp. I suggest you read the online Guide to Safe Scouting http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss02.aspx Qualified Supervision All swimming activity must be supervised by a mature and conscientious adult age 21 or older who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of those in his or her care, and who is trained in and committed to compliance with the eight points of BSA Safe Swim Defense. It is strongly recommended that all units have at least one adult or older youth member currently trained in BSA Swimming and Water Rescue OR BSA Lifeguard to assist in planning and conducting all swimming activities. To add to le Voyageur comments - there also is no mention of ocean and surf safety and rescue. My $0.02

"She also advised me to go to Scouting.org for more information ..." In other words, she told you to get lost.

Yeah they missed a delivery date on a "nice to have" resource - a special website with fancy stuff. But that is not a "need to have" resource, as we can all either google OR like scouts did in 1911 get help from "old-timers" and go to the "public library" (what a concept). And really, how many scouts will look at that website? So we are not waiting for National to fix yet another of their websites as they have yet developed competency in that communication. Our scouts who in good faith and effort completed the published requirements whether "not-quite-official" or not, will be awarded the merit badge. We had 4 scouts just complete Carpentry. It would be nice to have a stitched mb patch for the COR at the end of the month. Forward not backward Boys from Irving. my $0.02

1959: 6th edition of Boy Scout handbook explains cathole latrine in 2 sentences, no graphics (p124). 2009: 12th edition of Boy Scout handbook explains cathole latrine (and larger latrines) on pages 249,250 with 2 graphics including a key one that shows what a roll of toilet paper looks like. What 50 years ago was common sense is now an overdone marketing campaign LNT, but heh they can make $$$ from it. Critters are smart, long ago they rebranded their "poop" as "scat" to circumvent LNT police. My $0.01

Why not a carrot approach from National? I look at the Local Permit which is a checklist of who the trained leaders are and their training (yeah there's a blip about car insurance that doesn't need to be there). If all leaders are required to be trained can the Local Permit be retired as redundant or perhaps partially be replaced by a some new for High Adventure-only Permit? Maybe a "Quality Unit" with all "Trained" leaders no longer is required to submit Local Tour Permits. Imagine a world where those who say you need a tour permit for everything or worse, arbitrarily say when and where a permit is needed, suddenly disappeared because all leaders were qualified, competent, and trusted. My $0.01 for the thought (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)