RememberSchiff

http://www.ksee24.com/news/local/Man-Arrested-for-Embezzling-from-Boy-Scouts-142123683.html Hard to believe 1. This went unnoticed by Troop Committee for two years, should have been caught within three months with financial report at Committee meetings. Does your Treasurer show the real bank statement or just a homemade Excel spreadsheet that could be erroneous? 2. Troop had that much dough. Wonder how much money was lost from "Scout Accounts"? I see a "Money Protection" program coming...money should never be left alone with one person, three deep,.. My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

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With a statue of limitations and time exceeded, the alleged abuser wins whether he/she is innocent or guilty while the alleged victim (plaintiff) never had a day in court. Admittedly I am more concerned with the scout than the scouter or corporate, as the legal scales seemed tipped in favor of the last two. I think showing more concern for the scout, like Scouts-Canada is attempting, is the way out of this "perversion files"/lawsuit/PR mess. My $0.01,

Twocubdad, I wasn't saying that 2-deep coverage was not a good idea just that the fallout that we (singularly) are suddenly not to be trusted because of the actions of a few is not the desired Scout image. Maybe we scouters will never earn that trust back. A scout is "trustworthy", well not anymore, maybe two or three scouts together are trustworthy. Hurts scouts, scouters, and scouting. Is it "better" to hold on to the "files" (as pointed out they cannot be destroyed with legal action pending), watch as plaintiff attorneys for each case request those "files" and the resulting negative press over and over for the next 20, 30 or more years or have a controlled third party release of the files now, takes the lumps, and move forward rebuilding? The former is the status quo which continually paints the BSA in a negative image and hurts membership growth. Ask which will cost the "corporation" less in money, well we don't how much the status quo is costing us. Both approaches I suspect will be costly. Maybe the results of Scouts-Canada , will give us more info. JMHawkins They exist because after a long enough time, it's difficult or even impossible to obtain reliable evidence.." Victims of abuse can take a long time to come forward, the reasons can be shame, desire not to let their parents know i.e. wait for Mom and Dad to pass before going to court, desire to forget, or fear ("say anything and I will kill your family") and then there is the possibility of DNA evidence which may have been unknown at the time of the crime. Whether the trial occurs a year, ten, or forty years later, the accused still has to be proven guilty beyond a doubt. This applies to murder cases, add "child abuse' as well. Here's that police-Explorer article http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2012/02/29/ap_enterprise_cop_cadet_sex_case_has_precedents/ Another $0.02,

1. We need to help scouts (past and present) who were harmed through Scouting. The public perception is that things have "improved" to the point that the BSA now quickly drops the abuser's membership and there are programs in place which, well apparently were not enough. - Scouts Canada removed settlement gag orders so those scouts can freely talk as part of their healing process. - BSA or their insurer covers 100% of medical expense (therapy, burial expenses, etc.) of any scout abused by a registered member of BSA. 2. We need to remove this albatross about our neck - the "perversion files". We need to do a one shot apology, controlled release and take our lumps. Scouts Canada having KPMG doing an independent review with public release sounds better than an federal special prosecutor that I suggested earlier. As it stands now those files will be sought for every future case with the BSA always appearing as they/we have something to hide. Contract a 3rd party to review and direct information to the police accordingly. Maybe have the BSA youth protection committee/task force should also review the "files" in parallel, note this was not done when a YP policy was being formulated. 3. We need to earn back the public trust. When I camped back in the day, at times we had just 1 adult. No problems, no worry. I have been the lone (token?) adult at other youth activities and no problem. I am known one of the good guys, well maybe one of the grumpier old good guy, anyway there is trust. - We relatively recently required that any suspected abuse be reported directly to Child Services/local police. Good. - Our scouts need more real training in protecting themselves, not just a short couple of pages in the handbook. As I young Cub Scout (my CM was a cop), I remember practicing what to do if a stranger grabbed me. "YOU"RE NOT MY DAD! HELP!ME!" It wasn't giggle time. Wouldn't it be a change to read, "a suspected child stalker picked the wrong victim, a boy scout, who used his youth protection training to alert... I am so GD angry to read today of all the police Explorer scouts who have been abused by cops. If a police Explorer scout cannot self-rescue from abuse, then our YP needs serious re-work. - BSA should lobby for no statue of limitations for child abuse. Start with the states where we have high adventure camps! My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

That much they both have right, but it wasn't always the case. Remember for years, BSA YP stated call the council SE first, it was even a test question. IMO, there is more to be done. Scouts-Canada realizes this and is working in that direction. I am eager to read KPMG's "perversion files" report due later this year and hear what action is taken and how much work was involved in reviewing 350 records (BSA is estimated at slightly over 5000 records). BSA? Another $0.02(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Good point. He should have worded it more accurately. Their youth-protection policy is 1. Contact Child Protection Authority 2. Contact Scouts Canada ... scouts.cs/ca/youth-protection

Engineer 61, Our fellow scouters to the north face the same problem but their solution focuses on the good of their scouts past and present as opposed to the good of corporate. Please read Scouts Canada Chief Commissioner and Chair of the Board of Governors, Steve Kent 2+ page letter to all. http://www.scouts.ca/sites/default/files/Youth-Protection-Update-Feb13.pdf I will include the last part here "Scouts Canada, and I personally, have committed to this course of honesty and open transparency. We know it will ensure the strength and vitality of our organization for the future. Our focus is dedicated to nurturing the skills and abilities of young people, and there is nothing more important to Scouts Canada than the wellbeing of the children and youth with whom we work so closely and whose lives we aspire to influence for the better. It is a tremendous privilege, and an enormous responsibility, and each of our volunteer leaders takes it very seriously and cares about it very deeply on a personal level." Thank you once again for your support. Please do not hesitate to contact me directly if you have questions or concerns. " He includes his phone number and e-mail address!!! Maybe Scouts Canada has no lawyers or they are still Scout. They may have found a better scout-like solution that the Catholic Church and BSA did not. Consider the Scout first! My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Sounds good, but I think it is more complex. I think there's an ego factor sometimes expressed "these are different times", "we have a different leadership team (making the same decision)" that needs to be overcome. I wonder if/how C.S. Lewis would have expanded this thought post JFK, his cabinet of "The Best and the Brightest", and the Vietnam War. And that's just one example of well-educated, well-traveled, experienced people repeating the mistakes of history. Oddly he and JFK died on the same day. My $0.01

Santa Barbara County Superior Court Judge Donna Geck vacated her order this week, pending a March 21 mediation session between lawyers for BSA and plaintiff . She set a new date of May 9 for the BSA to produce the "perversion files", which are not to be disclosed to the public. Adult troop leader Al Stein pleaded no contest to felony child endangerment in 2009 and was sentenced to a two year prison term. He was paroled early. Some of us are keeping an eye on Scouts Canada approach, where they have released their "perversion files" for independent review (KPMG will make public their report later this year) and allowed victims (scouts) to talk post settlement as part of their healing process. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Mine is three words, but I can see it expressed in 4 or 5. DSP Some might focus on a particular approach for the above like "Get out of the way and let boys lead.", "All your scouts earn First Class", ...but I hope we are all pretty much on the same page or is it pages now.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

My older (~16yo+) scouts and their parents listened to the council Jambo pitch $2k plus another uniform plus... and figured their money could be better spent a local adventure trek $500-$600 or $0 get a summer job instead 40hr drivers ed $850 Driver license $30 SAT test, subject tests $50-200 6 college applications $300-450 ------------ $1230(no trek) - $1730(min) - $2130(max) per scout Seems once the total activity cost is above $800 (two weeks local scout camp?), family economic reality takes over. Maybe it would be an easier sell with 13-14 year olds, but that group wanted merit badge summer camp Their $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Give the units with an absentee COR the right to select another representative to attend and vote at district and council meetings. My $0.02

Glad you and your scouts had a great time. Your scouts might enjoy watching "National Treasure" (the first movie). My $0.02(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

"This years event, because of the momentous anniversary, brought more scouts (4000!)than ever to the park. This year the troop that traveled the farthest distance came from Texas . http://mainlinemedianews.com/articles/2012/02/19/king_of_prussia_courier/news/doc4f41ab6bc23b9994264658.txt?viewmode=default Well done.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

"(Scouts Canada) Chief Commissioner Steve Kent said a third-party (KPMG) review of records relating to abuse has turned up a number of cases in which it is unclear if police were notified. He said those cases are now being referred to authorities." (Scouts Canada is now voluntarily turning over their files which a year ago supposedly did not exist!) Im ashamed these things happened in our organization ... but Im definitely concerned and as motivated as anyone to do things right at this point, Chief Commissioner Steve Kent said Friday. The public release of KPMG's review has been pushed back to late 2012. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1133420--scouts-canada-some-allegations-of-sex-abuse-may-not-have-been-reported-to-police http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/americas/scouts-canada-says-some-allegations-of-sex-abuse-may-not-have-been-reported-to-police/2012/02/17/gIQAKIQPKR_story.html(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Beavah, thanks for the explanation. Should be interesting when the Boys from National take me and my scouts to court for copying old Fieldbook and Boy's Life material.

I guess I have not explained the situation well, so I'll drop it as I have already distracted too much from this thread. Sorry for the confusion.

The copyright owner is the BSA and aren't we all BSA? If the BSA is no longer selling the published material, why can't the rest of BSA make copies (no $ involved) to distribute among ...BSA?(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Good research shortridge. I missed that Pappydaddy wanted to copy the whole Fieldbook. I don't see a fair use problem with a chapter or two or three. What I cannot understand is how there can be any "copyright infringement" of no longer published Boy Scout literature among Boy Scouts/Scouters where no money was involved? Does anyone know of any copyright infringement suit by the BSA against a Scouter where no profit was involved? Patches, t-shirts, no longer published literature? My $0.01

So are we dinosaurs???? No, the dinosaurs were not forgotten. We will be, just as Green Bar Bill is now.

I am going to bet the average age is 50+. Thanks for scoring me above "average" Scout manual content follows National program direction. I predict the word "camping" will soon be replaced by "Outdoor Experience" or "High Tech Trek Adventure" with less camping and traditional scoutcraft. My $0.02 Copyright not a problem - Fair use Section 107 "1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes" http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Boy Scout membership up, the rest down. 2010 2011 1,601,994 1,583,166 Cub Scouting 898,852 909,576 Boy Scouting and Varsity Scouting 238,846 231,127 Venturing and Sea Scouting 664,063 511,359 Learning for Life 113,062 112,783 Explorers http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/sitecore/content/RTN/RTN2010.aspx

http://www.governor.wv.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2012/Pages/GovernorTomblinIssuesExecutiveOrderDesignatingPrincipalAgencytoCoordinatePlanningandResponseattheSummit.aspx "CHARLESTON, W.Va. Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin today issued an executive order designating the West Virginia Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management (WVDHSEM) as the principal agency to coordinate all state agency planning and response for activities and events of the Boy Scouts of America at The Summit: Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve and the 2013 National Scout Jamboree. In choosing the New River Gorge region of West Virginia as the permanent home of the National Scout Jamboree, the Boy Scouts of America continue to demonstrate its ongoing confidence in our state, said Gov. Tomblin. I have issued Executive Order No. 1-12 because I believe that by uniting our efforts now we will ensure the safety and efficiency of the events and activities at The Summit. The Jamboree will provide lasting economic and educational opportunities to our young people, our citizens and our state. "The executive order is another example of the continued support Governor Tomblin and state of West Virginia have provided to the BSA in order to make our efforts at the Summit Bechtel Reserve a lasting success," said Alf Tuggle, Assistant Chief Scout Executive, Boy Scouts of America. The order also designates the Director of the WVDHSEM serve as the sole liaison to the Governor for planning and coordination and will direct and manage all details of events sponsored by, or related to, the Boy Scouts of America which take place in West Virginia and which require state-related assistance. I want to thank Governor Tomblin for showing his support and confidence in the team he has assembled who are working diligently to make sure that the Scouts, their leaders, families and visitors to West Virginia have a safe and enjoyable experience at the National Jamboree, said Jimmy Gianato, Director of WVDHSEM. This planning team is composed of some of the finest individuals in the world and they have tremendous experience in working on these types of events. Working collaboratively, we can make sure that this event will be outstanding and showcase the Spirit and Pride of West Virginia. The Director will work with appropriate federal agencies to secure relevant security designations and support for events such as the upcoming National Scout Jamboree. The order also requires the WVDHSEM to provide the Governor with a financial impact statement outlining the needs of the agency to ensure a successful event." For the executive order complete with all "whereas's" http://www.governor.wv.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2012/Documents/2012.02.10%20Executive%20Order%20No.%201-12.pdf

Not interested in starting a rumor mill, just a heads up. Tomorrow, Friday Feb 10, 3:30pm CHARLESTON, W.Va. -Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin, joined by Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management Director Jimmy Gianato, West Virginia National Guard Adjutant General James A. Hoyer, and Boy Scouts of America Assistant Chief Scout Executive Alf Tuggle, will hold a press conference at the Glen Jean Armory to discuss the issuance of Executive Order No. 1-12 relating to the Boy Scouts of America's National Jamboree." http://www.wv.gov/news/Pages/GovernortoHoldPressConferenceRegardingExecutiveOrderNo1-12RelatingtoTheSummitBechtelFamilyNationalScoutReserve.aspx