RememberSchiff

Good research shortridge. I missed that Pappydaddy wanted to copy the whole Fieldbook. I don't see a fair use problem with a chapter or two or three. What I cannot understand is how there can be any "copyright infringement" of no longer published Boy Scout literature among Boy Scouts/Scouters where no money was involved? Does anyone know of any copyright infringement suit by the BSA against a Scouter where no profit was involved? Patches, t-shirts, no longer published literature? My $0.01

So are we dinosaurs???? No, the dinosaurs were not forgotten. We will be, just as Green Bar Bill is now.

I am going to bet the average age is 50+. Thanks for scoring me above "average" Scout manual content follows National program direction. I predict the word "camping" will soon be replaced by "Outdoor Experience" or "High Tech Trek Adventure" with less camping and traditional scoutcraft. My $0.02 Copyright not a problem - Fair use Section 107 "1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes" http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Boy Scout membership up, the rest down. 2010 2011 1,601,994 1,583,166 Cub Scouting 898,852 909,576 Boy Scouting and Varsity Scouting 238,846 231,127 Venturing and Sea Scouting 664,063 511,359 Learning for Life 113,062 112,783 Explorers http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/sitecore/content/RTN/RTN2010.aspx

http://www.governor.wv.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2012/Pages/GovernorTomblinIssuesExecutiveOrderDesignatingPrincipalAgencytoCoordinatePlanningandResponseattheSummit.aspx "CHARLESTON, W.Va. Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin today issued an executive order designating the West Virginia Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management (WVDHSEM) as the principal agency to coordinate all state agency planning and response for activities and events of the Boy Scouts of America at The Summit: Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve and the 2013 National Scout Jamboree. In choosing the New River Gorge region of West Virginia as the permanent home of the National Scout Jamboree, the Boy Scouts of America continue to demonstrate its ongoing confidence in our state, said Gov. Tomblin. I have issued Executive Order No. 1-12 because I believe that by uniting our efforts now we will ensure the safety and efficiency of the events and activities at The Summit. The Jamboree will provide lasting economic and educational opportunities to our young people, our citizens and our state. "The executive order is another example of the continued support Governor Tomblin and state of West Virginia have provided to the BSA in order to make our efforts at the Summit Bechtel Reserve a lasting success," said Alf Tuggle, Assistant Chief Scout Executive, Boy Scouts of America. The order also designates the Director of the WVDHSEM serve as the sole liaison to the Governor for planning and coordination and will direct and manage all details of events sponsored by, or related to, the Boy Scouts of America which take place in West Virginia and which require state-related assistance. I want to thank Governor Tomblin for showing his support and confidence in the team he has assembled who are working diligently to make sure that the Scouts, their leaders, families and visitors to West Virginia have a safe and enjoyable experience at the National Jamboree, said Jimmy Gianato, Director of WVDHSEM. This planning team is composed of some of the finest individuals in the world and they have tremendous experience in working on these types of events. Working collaboratively, we can make sure that this event will be outstanding and showcase the Spirit and Pride of West Virginia. The Director will work with appropriate federal agencies to secure relevant security designations and support for events such as the upcoming National Scout Jamboree. The order also requires the WVDHSEM to provide the Governor with a financial impact statement outlining the needs of the agency to ensure a successful event." For the executive order complete with all "whereas's" http://www.governor.wv.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2012/Documents/2012.02.10%20Executive%20Order%20No.%201-12.pdf

Not interested in starting a rumor mill, just a heads up. Tomorrow, Friday Feb 10, 3:30pm CHARLESTON, W.Va. -Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin, joined by Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management Director Jimmy Gianato, West Virginia National Guard Adjutant General James A. Hoyer, and Boy Scouts of America Assistant Chief Scout Executive Alf Tuggle, will hold a press conference at the Glen Jean Armory to discuss the issuance of Executive Order No. 1-12 relating to the Boy Scouts of America's National Jamboree." http://www.wv.gov/news/Pages/GovernortoHoldPressConferenceRegardingExecutiveOrderNo1-12RelatingtoTheSummitBechtelFamilyNationalScoutReserve.aspx

A couple of years ago, Choicepoint was acquired by LexisNexis who subsequently merged data bases . Both companies had serious data security breaches prior to merging. My understanding is that National/Council obtains a "consumer reports" from LexisNexis. LexisNexis provides "personal information reports" (their term) covering insurance, mortgage information, employment, resident history, liens, lawsuits, healthcare, credit history, divorce, motor vehicle ...far more than "consumer information". What parts the BSA uses is unknown, but we signed away permission on the adult membership form. https://personalreports.lexisnexis.com/ My $0.02(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

FUD = fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Fear of loosing camp accreditation, uncertainty of camp attendance fee levels or council funding, and then doubt anything can be done except to raise camp fees or ...sell camp. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Look for those camp fees to go UP if not this year then 2013 when FUD takes hold "all BSA camping programs must be sustainable in order to meet the requirements for accreditation. Sustainability is defined in the camp standards as meeting one of the following criteria in 4 of the last 5 years: 1. The camping program adds net revenues to the council, and the council is funding depreciation (Standard for Gold Accreditation). 2. The camping program adds net revenues to the council, and the council is not funding depreciation (Standard for Silver Accreditation). 3. The camping program receives a limited subsidy from the gross revenues of the council, is not forecast to increase, and the council budget is in surplus and forecast to remain in surplus for the next five years; or The camping program receives a greater subsidy from the gross revenues of the council, the amount of the subsidy is stable or trending downward, the council does not exhibit an unusually low ratio of unit serving executives to total available youth, and the council budget is in surplus and forecast to remain in surplus for the next five years. (Minimum standard for accreditation)." Ran across "sustainability" mentioned in this news story about an Iowan scout camp http://www.kwwl.com/story/16681225/boy-scouts-face-financial-challenges and then the requirements at the Winnebago Council website. http://www.winnebagobsa.org/nvtf/ http://www.winnebagobsa.org/announcements/CampingProgramsNewVisionTaskForceAppointed.pdf IMO, much ado (taskforces, 10year, 20 year visions, sustainability!) when what we are talking about is keeping the camps and councils in the black and hopefully, providing an adventurous outdoor program which scouts and their families can afford. Might want to look at membership, which for this council in 1971 was 12,000 scouts and is now 3,800. Also wonder if the four National high-adventure camps will meet the above sustainability requirement. My $0.01 for rambling (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Hah, so can we burn down the %#$@% camp stores with their Snicker's and Ben & Jerry's? These days what I would want in facilities is likely a small subset of what is legally required by local/state/federal for a summer resident camp and there most of the expenses lie, well except the expenses for those that want WIFI, battery charging outlets, presentation theatres, WB classrooms, camp mess hall, Starbucks kiosk, picnic tables, camp site pavillon, camp store,... For my scouts this will do Water/toilet/shower/trail map/camp sites/swimming/boats/archery/rifle range/gathering campfire area. Beyond that depends on program and staff, e.g., if a blacksmithing program was desired and good instructors were at the ready, I can see adding a workshop and equipment. My $0.02 - $0.02 for unscoutlike language(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

With membership numbers and bookings down, some councils have sold their scout camp and rented it back for 1-4 summer weeks. And while it probably saves on council expenditures, I believe a council looses far more on donations without a camp. Also a "rented camp" can create problems with camp personnel (use the existing camp staff vs. bringing in some of us during those weeks) and rules (ours vs theirs). Most units need a scout camp for their scouts. My $0.02,

U.S. Postal Service uniforms are made in U.S.A. Union contract requirement as I recall.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Just say no. It takes away from activity time (exercise) and there are just too many overweight and obese boys along with too many parents willing to "help" by providing 2000 calorie brownie/cupcakes and sugar soda to wash it down. Another way to say no, "Due to food allergies,...no snacks!" My $0.02, RS aka the "Snack Nazi" - "no snacks for you".

I think the "Eagle Project" requirement came about in the early 60's. Before that there was a "Scout Spirit" requirement for Eagle (Life and Star too) to basically "do your best" to help your home, school, church, community - i.e. be a good scout. Some scouters wanted something more specific, something that the scout had done - the Eagle project. Then as I recall it was usually a singular effort - a scout planned it and did the work himself as the emphasis was still "scout spirit". It certainly was simpler. My $0.02,

Maybe that is "the directive". So no more excuses such as "we did all that was legally required" in states where there is no mandatory abuse reporting law. We are required to report. Seems not releasing the "pervert files" contradicts this directive. Looking forward to the KPMG report on Scouts Canada pervert files, and Scouts Canada different approach. My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Good post. Anyone see this in writing? "Last year, in one of his first major directives, Johnson (youth protection director, Michael Johnson, a former police detective) stipulated that all adult Scout staff are mandated to report suspected child abuse to law enforcement authorities and Scout leaders, even if this would not be required by state law." (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Could be real or fake, fun or dumb but I hope it works though I would rather see patrols of scouts compete. I placed this in "Patrol Method" here as I wish the terms "patrol" and "patrol method" had been used by National. "Irving, TEXAS (Jan. 17, 2012) Are You Tougher Than a Boy Scout? Its the question being asked by a new unscripted series from Original Productions (Deadliest Catch, Ice Road Truckers) set to air this fall on the National Geographic Channel. Those who have been involved with the Boy Scouts of America know how tough Scouts can be. They master hundreds of unique skills, learn what it takes to survive in a variety of circumstances, and focus on teamwork to accomplish goals that otherwise would be insurmountable. Now, as part of Are You Tougher Than a Boy Scout?, teams of adults from different backgrounds will have an opportunity to test their mettle against some of those Scouts in challenges based on the Boy Scout Handbook..." http://www.scouting.org/Media/PressReleases/2012/20120117.aspx?mid=5803(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Adults with a different set of rules? I can see that carrying-over into other areas Been there, seen rocket engines, magnets, springs, and fights before the PWD started. Try an adult or open division with same rules and they race after the scouts, afterall you need them to take down the track too. My $0.02,

"..where all that money will come from, maybe the next Jambo will be even more expensive? So far, I think donations have totaled 100 million. In answer to my question - BONDS. "The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) Friday made their first move toward securing a $200 million tax-exempt bond to further fund construction of the Summit Bechtel Reserve. If all goes as planned, the Fayette County Commission will issue the bond in the coming months, generating funds from the purchase of those bonds by financial institutions and, perhaps, individuals. Last year, the commission issued a $100 million bond for similar use by the BSA. The Boy Scouts have almost spent the entire $100 million borrowed last year and they are moving dirt as fast and as rapidly as possible, says John Stump of the law firm Steptoe and Johnson, which represented the BSA at the county commission meeting Friday. They are in a position now to borrow up to an additional $200 million. Though the BSA has significant pledges from donors for the Summit project, those funds generally arent paid up front, creating a need for construction monies. Stump says the BSA wants to be ready to ramp up construction when the weather breaks in March, to further prepare for the approaching 2013 National Jamboree. ..." http://www.register-herald.com/todaysfrontpage/x594868673/Scouts-take-step-toward-tax-exempt-Summit-bond

This one is for OGE and shortridge as they likely know this scenario has happened before. "Oh the Troop Committee, they'll gum everything up." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffml4yY-QXA&feature=related

Hmmm "Scout Stuff" has a 5 star rating on amazon.com Books ... that might change if the informed found it to be a less than fair and scholarly effort. My $0.02 P.S. (from amazon About the Author) "Robert Birkby is the author of the Boy Scouts Handbook, the Boy Scouts Fieldbook, the Scoutmaster Handbook, and many other Boy Scouts of America publications. An Eagle Scout and outdoor educator, he also served as Director of Conservation at Philmont Scout Ranch in the mountains of northern New Mexico. He lives in Seattle, Washington."(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Change date from when bugs are worst to when they are not around or their natural enemies are present. Mid March, early April before bugs and mud season. Mid June on, depending on rain, things tend to get better. Change location (habitat) to an area less buggy, maybe sea coast (breezy, good venue to tell WBers to go fly a kite ) Pray for wind. As mentioned, fans work too. When Mel Gibson was filming Man Without A Face in Maine, his film crew setup large fans to blow away the black flies and mosquitoes during filming. My $0.02.

Supposedly, each Council maintains records of scouts who earned Eagle in that council and the earlier councils that may have merged into that council. As I recall, the record fields: Scout name Troop number Troop town Scoutmaster Council name where earned date earned Eagle number Hope this is still true and helps.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

KPMG, an outside business consulting and auditing company, has started reviewing Scouts Canada records of suspected or alleged sex abuse, totalling about 350 cases since the 1940s. A public report is expected in early 2012. Steve Kent, the youth organization's chief commissioner, "said that the organization is willing to lift controversial confidentiality clauses contained in some of its out-of-court settlements with child sex-abuse victims. Scouts Canada has been criticized for including conditions that barred victims from revealing the existence of settlements in many cases but went as far as to forbid any mention of the abuse. Some victims felt muzzled and confused by the agreements. However, Kent noted that factors such as the privacy of third parties may affect decisions about whether to fully lift confidentiality clause conditions. He encouraged victims to contact Scouts Canada to discuss their agreements. "We don't want to prevent any of those people from telling their stories, if that's helpful in their healing, if they believe that that can help others then we want to do what we can to enable that," said Kent." http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/2011/12/09/scouts-.html

Steve Kent, chairman of the governing board of Scouts Canada, has apologized to victims of sexual abuse in the organization and announced an independent review of confidential files . Scouts Canada CEO Janet Yale denied that confidential records were kept. She resigned abruptly in November after the CBC published proof of their existence. So far, the BSA has not allowed an independent review of their perversion files. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/08/local/la-me-1209-scouts-20111209(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)